America is Babylon

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Rex

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But I'm curious about some things: does it or does it not make sense to you that the Illuminati would replicate prophecy? Figure it out and deliberately fulfill it.

I've pondered that question as well. Once you get a hold of the lead steer and turn him with a displaced 7 years, a temple and a Mr diabolical. The whole herd follows then when they hear thunder you've got a stamped that's near impossible to stop.

And who and what have the most to gain? In the sense of the world? And didn't the beast receive a wound then it was healed as well.
A look at the reformers and what they believed, it's pretty clear the catholic church has a lot to gain by misdirecting the herd.
These days as well, the political support this herd gives to candidates it believe supports there values.

There's a lot to be gained in convincing people you know Danial and Johns Revelation.
I don't kid myself I have it all figured out, but that's just me.

Something else I see is that those that follow the herd have lost credibility to the secular world, "they have no witness"
 

Axehead

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I always thought the False religious system (compared to the true Church) was Babylon. Everything and anything that exalts itself above God.
 

Rex

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Matthew 12:30
Revelation 17:5

That pretty much covers everything
But your a friend and brother, what do you see?
 

Elle

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Hi dismas,

You said:
"I whole-heartly agree with your well said post. I agree with you about the Illuminati, the NWO, and Jerusalem as the final Babylon.

But I'm curious about some things: does it or does it not make sense to you that the Illuminati would replicate prophecy? Figure it out and deliberately fulfill it.

Do you think the Illuminati created the US, the constitution?

Wouldn't it make sense that they would infiltrate the Catholic church? That they would use the Catholic church to fulfill prophecy and trick people into thinking that it is the "final Babylon".

IMO, this whole end game has been scripted for a very long time."



You might find this article interesting. It offers a perspective I never even entertained, definitely something to keep on the back burner.
http://johnthewitness.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/the-counterfeit-new-world-order/
 

veteran

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But I'm curious about some things: does it or does it not make sense to you that the Illuminati would replicate prophecy? Figure it out and deliberately fulfill it.

Only as much as what God would allow them to do, which means what they do is the fulfilling of what God Himself prophesied through His prophets. God has their number, and it is soon to be up.


Do you think the Illuminati created the US, the constitution?

Only partly. This is actually a very deep question you're asking. The U.S. Constitutiion contains many principles directly from God's Word. Yet it does not specifically declare Christianity in any theocratic state concept, but freedom of religious belief in the general sense, which pretty much leaves it open as to any God one desires to worship, which that latter concept is... a working of the secret societies (i.e., "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity"). The majority of the founders were Christians, quite a lot of them preachers, but they did not want to create the same kind of states that caused the people in the colonies to flee from Europe. Those like Ben Franklin and Thomas Jeffersen were abassadors to France, and I think that had influence on their thinking towards liberalism. The conservative movement began in England as a counter to the political leftist liberalsim the French Revolution had caused. So the two views existed even back then among the founders.


Wouldn't it make sense that they would infiltrate the Catholic church? That they would use the Catholic church to fulfill prophecy and trick people into thinking that it is the "final Babylon".

It's pretty clear they had and have infiltrated, but not just the Catholic Church, but the Protestant Church too. One can discover doctrines of men among them both that are designed to lead the believer astray from what God said is to happen for the end of this world.

IMO, this whole end game has been scripted for a very long time.

Our Heavenly Father foretold us about it in His Word. All we need do is read It and listen to Him by The Holy Spirit and think.

I always thought the False religious system (compared to the true Church) was Babylon. Everything and anything that exalts itself above God.

And that is... ultimately correct. Most simply have a difficult time moving their perspective back far enough in order to see that as the basis during this world.

For the end of this world, it's to manifest as a one-world kingdom, as a one-world religion, with a one-world economy, and with a one-world king. It's object is to usurp David's throne on earth which Christ Jesus is to inherit when He comes.
 

revturmoil

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For the end of this world, it's to manifest as a one-world kingdom, as a one-world religion, with a one-world economy, and with a one-world king. It's object is to usurp David's throne on earth which Christ Jesus is to inherit when He comes.

If you had a hermeneutic you would not believe that.

You need to understand how to interpret biblical words like the word ALL!
I've been through it with you before but you don't care.
Nearly every Christian I know is deceived in this matter.

Want me to show you where you've gone wrong.....AGAIN!
 

veteran

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If you had a hermeneutic you would not believe that.

You need to understand how to interpret biblical words like the word ALL!
I've been through it with you before but you don't care.
Nearly every Christian I know is deceived in this matter.

Want me to show you where you've gone wrong.....AGAIN!

If you understood God's Holy Writ half... as much as you claim, you would well understand what I said. But it's clear God has closed your eyes, and the eyes of those with you.

On another note, since I mentioned David's throne in my previous post, that is one of the matters for the end time events that is hidden from most brethren's views, i.e., that the "synagogue of Satan" intends to setup their fake king upon David's throne on earth, in Jerusalem, for the end of this world.

David's throne is an earthly throne, not a Heavenly one. And God gave promise to king David that He would establish it forever, unto all generations (2 Samuel 7). The Genesis 49:10 prophecy reveals that it is to still... be in existence upon this earth all the way up to the time of Christ's second coming. One of the tribe of Judah is to still be upon that throne until Christ comes, and that's when our Lord Jesus will inherit it upon this earth at His return. That's when He will establish His de facto reign and Kingdom here.

That is why when the false messiah comes, he's going to try and plant himself upon David's throne in Jerusalem, and claim to be God having returned, which is what Apostle Paul was hinting at in the 2 Thess.2 chapter. Orthodox Judaism is being prepared to accept that delusion by the "synagogue of Satan" that controls them. And they want as many deceived Christians in that delusion with them.

So all the hirelings in many Christian pulpits today that are preaching to side with orthodox Judaism in Jerusalem for the end, they're going to be telling you that fake messiah's that's coming first is our Lord Jesus Christ having returned. So imagine all the pomp and circumstance that event is going to create in Jerusalem, and add what God's Word teaches about the great signs and miracle working that false messiah is going to do, and the majority of the whole world will be spiritually drunken to accept that lie, especially the deceived orthodox Jews who still refuse Jesus of Nazareth as The Messiah. I mean, they are going to be the main leaders of that deception to false messiah, for they will believe he is The Messiah of the OT prophets.

But Christ's elect are to NOT fall into that trap that's coming. This is why Paul warned about that event especially in the 2 Thess.2 chapter to mark the difference with the later time of Christ's coming and our gathering afterwards.
 

Guestman

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Still does not mean Christ's Church on earth is the Revelation Babylon harlot. The last verse of Revelation 17 TOLD YOU that "woman" is A CITY...


Rev 17:18
18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
(KJV)


And that part about those kings is also a required qualifer for that Rev.17 prophecy. No pope is reigning over the kings of the earth today.

Even the Rev.17:12-13 verses reveal that the ten horns (ten kings) don't come to power until the final beast king of the previous verses comes, i.e., the "little horn" of Daniel 7:8 and 8:9.

You're just jerking your own chain.

Rev 17:5
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
(KJV)

Here's Strong's definition for that Greek word 'musterion' (3466) -

'from a derivative of muo (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites)'.


A look at Ezekiel 8 which shows leaders of Judah and the house of Israel performing mysterious rites in secret behind closed doors is what that is about. That's what the secret initiatic fraternities of occult mystery initiation that exist today on earth are about.

These initiatic fraternities that still exist today claim heritage from the old 'mystery schools' of ancient Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc. They are still using the old practices of secret ceremonial temple rites, meeting in secret, forming their plans in secret. And they claim to be the benefactors of humanity throughout the centuries of past history and today.

They do NOT recognize Jesus of Nazareth as GOD The Saviour come in the flesh. This is why they study, teach, and latch onto religious elements from ALL the world's religions and instead teach a God of forces for everyone as directed by their claimed hidden "Masters" not of this world.

That's what 'their' MYSTERY idea represents. It is the anti-thesis of our Heavenly Father's Own "mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" (Matt.13:11) that are given to Christ's elect.

That is where the powers on this earth are, and they are given control over this earth for this time through their "rock" Lucifer. That is why Jerusalem is part of their future plan when their king of the world arrives upon this earth. Jerusalem is where our Heavenly Father said He chose to dwell forever, and that's why Lucifer wants Jerusalem for his own, so he can play God. That's what those secret societies have been up to for centuries, and we are living in the times to see the coming of their false world king, and their false kingdom coming to completion.

The churches of Christendom are among those who are the "children" of the "mother of the harlots, Babylon the Great". Jesus expected the true religion that he established to become apostate or "fall away" from his teachings, by giving an illustration of this at Matthew 13.

He said: "The kingdom of the heavens has become like a man that sowed fine seed in his field. While men were sleeping, his enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left. When the blade sprouted and produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also. So the slaves of the householder came up and said to him, ‘Master, did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds?’ He said to them, ‘An enemy, a man, did this.’ They said to him, ‘Do you want us, then, to go out and collect them?’ He said, ‘No; that by no chance, while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest; and in the harvest season I will tell the reapers, First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up, then go to gathering the wheat into my storehouse.’”(Matt 13:24-30)

Thus, Jesus is the "the man that sowed fine seed", establishing the one true religion that began operation on Pentecost 33 C.E., with the outpouring of holy spirit upon the 120 in Jerusalem.(Acts 2:4) However, Jesus now says that an "enemy came and oversowed weeds in among the wheat, and left". This "enemy" Jesus identifies as "the Devil"(Matt 13:39), who sowed "weeds" or counterfeit Christians in among the "wheat" or true Christians. This began to accelerate following the death of the apostles, or "while men were sleeping", with the apostle John being the last and possibly died around 100 C.E.

In fact, about 10 years after his death, one associated with the Christian congregation, Ignatius (who was born in about 50 C.E.), began to lean away from the guideline Jesus gave at Matthew 23:8, 10, of all Christians being "brothers" under the direction of Jesus Christ, and instead began the foster the idea of a clergy-laity class and the term "catholic church".("catholic" means universal, in which during Constantine's rulership became the state religion, fusing both pagan and so-called Christian teachings together as one "Catholic" religion)

Among the earliest deviations was a separation between the terms “overseer” (Greek, e·pi´sko·pos) and “older man,” or “elder” (Greek, pre·sby´te·ros), so that they were no longer used to refer to the same position of responsibility. Just a decade or so after the death of the apostle John, Ignatius, “bishop” of Antioch, in his letter to the Smyrnaeans, wrote: “See that you all follow the bishop [overseer], as Jesus Christ follows the Father, and the presbytery [body of older men] as if it were the Apostles.” Ignatius thus advocated that each congregation be supervised by one bishop, or overseer, who was to be recognized as distinct from, and having greater authority than, the presbyters, or older men.

Jesus said that when the "blade" of wheat sprouted and "produced fruit, then the weeds appeared also." Even before the death of the apostle John, apostasy was making headway within the Christian congregation, for the apostle Paul told the Ephesian "older men" that "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."(Acts 20:29, 30)

And the apostle John said: "Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as you have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us."(1 John 2:18, 19) John was aware that what Jesus had said regarding the apostasizing of the Christian congregation was now upon them, with some within the congregation having left and began promoting false religious doctrines and practices.

These "weeds" or imitation Christians would flourish and grow massively, covering the earth and continuing down till the "harvest" time, our time period, that began in earnest in 1914 with Jesus being installed as king of God's kingdom.(Rev 6:2) These would grow among the "wheat" or genuine Christians, but would then be separated by angels to be "burned with fire" or destroyed at the end of the "conclusion of the system of things".(Matt 13:40)

The "weeds" are the churches of Christendom who teach false religious doctrines and practices, being divided among the over 41,000 different sects and denominations that profess to be "Christian". These are part of Babylon the Great, that will be dealt with in the near future.(Rev 18:8) This mystic "woman" has her many "children" that come under her umbrella as "the mother of the harlots".(Rev 17:5)
 

veteran

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The churches of Christendom are among those who are the "children" of the "mother of the harlots, Babylon the Great". Jesus expected the true religion that he established to become apostate or "fall away" from his teachings, by giving an illustration of this at Matthew 13.

The Babylon harlot of Revelation 17 is the "great city" mentioned there, NOT the "churches of Christendom" like you are implying.

What you are implying against Christ's Church on earth is a working of the "spirit of antichrist".

NOTHING can destroy Christ's Church, the difference is that those who fall away from it are 'cut off', pruned.
 

Guestman

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The Babylon harlot of Revelation 17 is the "great city" mentioned there, NOT the "churches of Christendom" like you are implying.

What you are implying against Christ's Church on earth is a working of the "spirit of antichrist".

NOTHING can destroy Christ's Church, the difference is that those who fall away from it are 'cut off', pruned.

The churches of Christendom are not "Christ's Church", for these have apostasized and that Jesus said would fully blossom after the death of the apostles, "while men were sleeping".(Matt 13:25)

These have set up a clergy-laity class that the apostle Paul wrote of at 2 Thessalonians 2, in which he wrote, saying that before "the presence (Greek parousias meaning "presence" and not the Greek word erkhomenon meaning "coming" as at Matt 24:30) of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him....Let no one seduce you in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy (Greek apostasia meaning "deflection from the truth", Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, G646) comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god."(2 Thess 2:1, 3, 4)

Not only have the churches promoted falsehood, such as the trinity, hellfire, immortality of the soul, veneration of saints, worship of Mary as the "mother of God", idol worship, etc, but have exalted themselves by means of a clergy class that "sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god." This clergy class Paul calls "the man of lawlessness", which has been explicitly revealed during Jesus (invisible) "presence" that began in 1914 when he was installed as king of God's kingdom.

This clergy class opposes Jehovah God, attacking his faithful servants and discouraging anyone from critically examining the Bible, being "set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called "god" or an object of reverence". Thus, following the death of the apostles, there has been an apostasizing of true Christianity. Ignatius of Antioch fostered the idea of a clergy-laity class, but it was Cyprian (200?-258) that built upon this false religious idea.

Augustus Neander, in his book The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries, explains what happened: “In the second century . . . , the standing office of president of the presbyters must have been formed, to whom, inasmuch as he had especially the oversight of every thing, was the name of [e·pi´sko·pos, from which some have rendered as "bishop"] given, and he was thereby distinguished from the rest of the presbyters.”

The groundwork was thus laid for a clergy class gradually to emerge. About a century later, Cyprian, “bishop” of Carthage, North Africa, was a strong advocate of authority of the bishops—as a group separate from the presbyters (later known as priests), the deacons, and the laity. But he did not favor the primacy of one bishop over the others. Side note: The English word “priest” derives from pre·sby´te·ros (“older man,” or “elder”) as follows: from Middle English pre(e)st, from Old English prēost, from Vulgar Latin prester, contracted from Late Latin presbyter, from Greek pre·sby´te·ros.

As bishops and presbyters ascended the hierarchical ladder, they left below it the rest of the believers in the congregation. This resulted in a separation between clergy (those taking the lead) and laity (the passive body of believers). Explains McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopedia: “From the time of Cyprian [who died about 258 C.E.], the father of the hierarchical system, the distinction of clergy and laity became prominent, and very soon was universally admitted. Indeed, from the third century onward, the term clerus . . . was almost exclusively applied to the ministry to distinguish it from the laity. As the Roman hierarchy was developed, the clergy came to be not merely a distinct order . . . but also to be recognised as the only priesthood.”

Thus, within 150 years or so of the death of the last of the apostles, two significant organizational changes found their way into the congregation: first, the separation between the bishop and the presbyters, with the bishop occupying the top rung of the hierarchical ladder; second, the separation between the clergy and the laity. Instead of all spirit-begotten believers forming “a royal priesthood,” the clergy were now “recognised as the only priesthood.”(1 Pet. 2:9)

Such changes marked a defection from the Scriptural method of governing the congregations in apostolic days. Hence, just as Jesus had illustrated, the one true religion that he had established had become apostate, setting up a clergy class that dominated over the laity, in contrast to Jesus words that "all of you are brothers".(Matt 23:8)

This clergy class in the past has had "the power of life and death", putting the death those who even had a Bible in their possession and placing on thrones individuals, such as Charlemagne (Charles the Great) who was crowned king by Pope Leo III in 800 C.E., as well as disposing kings. But the harlotrous Babylon the Great required payment, so that "Charles . . . reiterated, in St. Peter’s Basilica, his father’s promise to transfer to papal rule large sections of Italy.” The same source adds: “In his politically conditioned religiosity, the empire and the church grew into an institutional and spiritual unit.”(The New Encyclopædia Britannica) These "scratched" each others back.

In these "last days" however, the one true religion would be reestablished. Isaiah was inspired to write: "And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore."(Isa 2:2-4, Micah 4:1-3)

Thence, "Christ's Church" are not the churches of Christendom but those "doing the will of the Father" (Matt 7:21), those who are "no part of the world", not mingling with the political elements, but remaining politically neutral, "touching nothing unclean".(2 Cor 6:17) "Christ's Church" is at the forefront of the preaching of "the good news of the kingdom" (Matt 24:14), going to all the nations, making disciples, ' teaching them to observe Jesus words '.(Matt 28:19, 20) These assist others to heed the call: "Get of out her (Babylon the Great), my people, if you do not want to share in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues."(Rev 18:4)
 

veteran

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Christ's Church is His many-membered body of believers, wherever... they are. That just so happens to INCLUDE literal Church congregations here on earth, for there are many. His Church is NOT a building, but His believers. The congregations that fall away from Christ are cut off unless they repent to Christ Jesus.

It is very naive and foolish thinking to think that all members in any one Church congregation are deceived and doomed. That thinking is a show of hatred of Christ's Church here on earth, plain and simple.
 

Guestman

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Christ's Church is His many-membered body of believers, wherever... they are. That just so happens to INCLUDE literal Church congregations here on earth, for there are many. His Church is NOT a building, but His believers. The congregations that fall away from Christ are cut off unless they repent to Christ Jesus.

It is very naive and foolish thinking to think that all members in any one Church congregation are deceived and doomed. That thinking is a show of hatred of Christ's Church here on earth, plain and simple.

The churches of Christendom are the "weeds" or counterfeit Christians that Jesus said would grow in among the "wheat" or genuine Christians after the death of the apostles ("while men were sleeping", Matt 13:25) These have become part of the "world", dabbling in the political arena, playing up the "kings of the earth", committing "fornication" with them.(Rev 17:1, 2)

At Isaiah 2, it brings forth that the one true religion (the "wheat") that had been smothered by the "weeds" would be reestablished in our time period, saying: "And it must occur in the final part of the days that the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore."(Isa 2:2-4)

The churches of Christendom have not ' beaten their swords into plowshares and spears into pruning shears', but have taken up the "sword" in warfare, slaughtering millions. Of World War I, British Brigadier General Frank P. Crozier said: “The Christian Churches are the finest blood-lust creators which we have and of them we made free use.”(A Brass Hat in No Man’s Land, published in 1930) This also came true for World War II, for the churches of Christendom, both Catholic and Protestant, were totally involved, in which German soldiers wore a belt buckle on which was inscribed the words Gott mit uns (God is with us). German soldiers wore this inscription in WWI as well.
 

Trekson

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Hi Guestman, Your Isaiah verse is a millennial prophecy, not for "our time"
 

veteran

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The churches of Christendom are the "weeds" or counterfeit Christians that Jesus said would grow in among the "wheat" or genuine Christians after the death of the apostles ("while men were sleeping", Matt 13:25) These have become part of the "world", dabbling in the political arena, playing up the "kings of the earth", committing "fornication" with them.(Rev 17:1, 2)

That's hillarious!

My Lord Jesus defined the "tares" that are hidden among the good wheat as those sowed by the devil (Matt.13:38-39).

The "tares" are... the devil's own servants, NOT God's people that fall away because of being 'deceived'... by them!

I'm so glad my Heavenly Father has not entrusted those like you with His Kingdom, for your thinking is straight from hell itself. You actually speak just LIKE A 'TARE' when you show such hatred against fallen believers of the Christian Church.
 
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Guestman

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That's hillarious!

My Lord Jesus defined the "tares" that are hidden among the good wheat as those sowed by the devil (Matt.13:38-39).

The "tares" are... the devil's own servants, NOT God's people that fall away because of being 'deceived'... by them!

I'm so glad my Heavenly Father has not entrusted those like you with His Kingdom, for your thinking is straight from hell itself. You actually speak just LIKE A 'TARE' when you show such hatred against fallen believers of the Christian Church.

The churches of Christendom, as the "weeds" or counterfeit Christians (Matt 13:25), have shown themselves as having "committed fornication with the kings of the earth."(Rev 17:2) For example, when a political election comes along, where are often found the voting booths ? Inside churches. When Hilter attained power in Germany in 1933, what did the Roman Catholic church do ? It signed a Reichskonkordat (or treaty agreement) with Nazi Germany on July 20, 1933, with Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli and Vice Chancellor Franz von Papen being the official dignitaries on behalf of Pope Pius XI and German President Paul von Hindenburg.

What have religious leaders often done ? Mix and mingle with the political arena, either by running for political office (such as Jesse Jackson Sr who ran for President in 1984, Pat Robertson who ran for President of the US in 1988, then told his supporters to support Bush when his bid failed, or such as Mitt Romney who is Mormon), by supporting a political candidate or by supporting the patriotic interests of the government they live within.

These have supported human political solutions rather than God's kingdom, unlike Jesus who told Pilate: "My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source."(John 18:36) Just the night before, Jesus had told his genuine disciples that "if you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, on this account the world hates you."(John 15:19)

Jesus genuine disciples avoided any entanglements in the political arena, having nothing to do with it. Furthermore, James styles anyone who mixes with the "world" as an adulteress, saying: "Adulteresses, do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God."(James 4:4)

On the other hand, with the inception of the League of Nations in 1920, the Protestant clergy were not reticent in their support of the League. The New York Times for January 11, 1920, reported: “The London church bells this evening have been pealing in celebration of the conclusion of peace with Germany and the official coming into existence of the League of Nations.”

A booklet published in England under the title The Christian Church and the League of Nations stated: “The Christian Church in Great Britain supports the League of Nations. Here is an Affirmation made by the Archbishops of Canterbury and York, thirty-five English Diocesan Bishops, the Moderator of the Church of Scotland, and official representatives of all the Free Churches in England."

Prior to this, in December of 1918, the Federal Council of the Churches of Christ in America issued a declaration that said in part: “As Christians we urge the establishment of a League of Free Nations at the coming Peace Conference. Such a League is not a mere political expedient; it is rather the political expression of the Kingdom of God on earth.” It then went on to say: “The Church has much to give and much to gain. It can give a powerful sanction by imparting to the new international order something of the prophetic glory of the Kingdom of God. . . . The League of Nations is rooted in the Gospel.”

Another example, when the nations emerged from the horrors of World War II world leaders held out the United Nations as man’s ‘best hope for peace.’ With their hearts yearning for peace, men looked to this organization with keen expectation. At the signing of its charter in San Francisco in 1945, “church bells were rung. Christians crowded into their churches. They sang glad hosannas to the Prince of Peace. They thanked God that at long last an institution had been created to ‘save succeeding generations from the scourge of war.’”(The Churches and the United Nations, by Walter W. Van Kirk)

The churches have a long history of political involvement, being as "part of the world" rather than "no part" of it. They have become "adulteresses", enemies of God, committing "fornication with the kings of the earth."
 

Rex

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Just like outside this forum many "leaders" in the churches have become entangled in the words they preach.
Instead of freeing themselves their heart is firm, pride and or embarrassment for many will prohibit them from simply saying "you know I may have been wrong,
I'm more concerned about finding and speaking the truth, than I am about being embarrassed by my mistakes".
 

Guestman

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Hi Guestman, Your Isaiah verse is a millennial prophecy, not for "our time"

What Isaiah was inspired to write is for our time, saying: "And it must occur in the final part of the days that the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains , and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream. And many peoples will certainly go and say: “Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore."(Isa 2:2-4)

Micah was also inspired to write it down, saying: "And it must occur in the final part of the days that the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it peoples must stream. And many nations will certainly go and say: “Come, you people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. And he will certainly render judgment among many peoples, and set matters straight respecting mighty nations far away. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. They will not lift up sword, nation against nation, neither will they learn war anymore."(Micah 4:1-3) But Micah was inspired to add this: "And they will actually sit, each one under his vine and under his fig tree, and there will be no one making them tremble; for the very mouth of Jehovah of armies has spoken it."(Micah 4:4)

Daniel was able to explain to king Nebuchadnezzar his dream of "an immense image" that pictured the human governments of ancient Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the combination government that came from its dissolution, the Anglo-American world power (Dan 2:31), saying that "there exists a God in the heavens who is a Revealer of secrets, and he has made known to King Neb·u·chad·nez´zar what is to occur in the final part of the days."(Dan 2:28)

We are living during "the final part of the days" ("last days", 2 Tim 3:1), for Micah adds another point, saying: "For all the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever."(Micah 4:5) During the millennial reign of Christ Jesus, the worship of false religious gods that the nations are now worshiping will have been decimated before this, with the total annihilation of the false religious empire Babylon the Great as the 1st of the 2 parts of the "great tribulation" in the near future.(Rev 17:16, 17)

It is now that both Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 are being fulfilled, with the reestablishment of the "pure religion"(James 1:27, King James Bible) following the apostasizing of the Christian congregation after the death of the apostles.(Matt 13:24-30) Who are the ones who are that are going to "the mountain of Jehovah" for instruction in peace, having beaten "their swords into pruning shears and swords into plowshares", learning ' war no more ' ? Not the churches, who have offered millions of their young men on the altar of war.

Jesus millennial reign is after the "final part of the days" ("last days", King James Bible). Hence, it is now that individuals are learning how to please God by putting on the "new personality" (Col 3:10), being "no part of the world" (John 15:19), and having ' beaten their swords into plowshares and spears into pruning shears '.

At Matthew 13:43, Jesus says that during the "conclusion of the system of things" (Matt 13:39, "end of the world", King James Bible), that "at that time the righteous ones (the "wheat") will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their Father." It is during this time period that "the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains."

True worship will be elevated above everyone and everything else by those who allow themselves to be instructed by Jehovah God, beating their "(warlike) swords into (agricultural or peaceful) plowshares and their (warlike) spears into (peaceful) pruning shears."
 

Trekson

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Hi Guestman, I still believe that these things will occur at the beginning of the millennium. The house of Jehovah won't be "firmly established" until after His second advent.

Your words: "It is now that both Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 are being fulfilled, with the reestablishment of the "pure religion"(James 1:27, King James Bible) following the apostasizing of the Christian congregation after the death of the apostles."

What is the identity of this "pure religion", in your eyes? To my mind, "religion" has always been the playground of satan.
 

veteran

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The churches of Christendom, as the "weeds" or counterfeit Christians (Matt 13:25), have shown themselves as having "committed fornication with the kings of the earth."(Rev 17:2) For example, when a political election comes along, where are often found the voting booths ? Inside churches. When Hilter attained power in Germany in 1933, what did the Roman Catholic church do ? It signed a Reichskonkordat (or treaty agreement) with Nazi Germany on July 20, 1933, with Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli and Vice Chancellor Franz von Papen being the official dignitaries on behalf of Pope Pius XI and German President Paul von Hindenburg.

News flash, the Catholic Church is NOT representative of all branches of Christianity, and nor does that treaty. The Roman Church undoubtedly was thinking of its members in... Nazi Germany seeking protection for them, which would translate to protection from Hitler's Facist ally Mussolini in Italy. It is recognized that those against the Catholic Church would use that as some political tool against the Catholic Church simply because of orthdox Jews being persecuted by Hitler, even going so far as to assume the treaty meant the Catholic Church was saying it's OK to persecute Jews. I don't believe the Catholic Church was supporting any of Nazi Germany's persecutions of Jews and other ethnic groups. The facts of history are that Hitler's Germany persecuted Christians and non-Jews also, not just Jews. So when you throw such things out like that, it means you're siding with the political speech of orthodox Jews, unbelieving Jews who still do not believe on Jesus of Nazareth as The Saviour.


What have religious leaders often done ? Mix and mingle with the political arena, either by running for political office (such as Jesse Jackson Sr who ran for President in 1984, Pat Robertson who ran for President of the US in 1988, then told his supporters to support Bush when his bid failed, or such as Mitt Romney who is Mormon), by supporting a political candidate or by supporting the patriotic interests of the government they live within.

Firstly, many of the U.S. founding fathers were... Christian preachers. There's abundance of proof of that even within the portico of the White House in Washington, D.C. So the idea some have that Christians are supposed to stay out of the arena of politics of the nation really doesn't mean sqwat. That idea some try to apply towards Christians is just more POLITICAL SPEECH by those who seek to SILENCE Christianity, and Christian values in American society. Wonder who that would be today?


U.S. Capitol Tour With David Barton:

http://stg.do/Iwpc


That history above David Barton spells out with the evidence at the U.S. Capitol building is what I am Patriotic about concerning the United States of America and we the people. That is how I myself and many, many others in America still see our nation. The people of God founded this nation through God's leading, so it's only a simple matter of WHO one chooses to listen to. One can either listen to the haters of America and haters of the Christian history involving this nation, or they can listen to God Who founded this nation and all the western Christian nations in The Gospel of Jesus Christ. So who are YOU listening to?



These have supported human political solutions rather than God's kingdom, unlike Jesus who told Pilate: "My kingdom is no part of this world. If my kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source."(John 18:36) Just the night before, Jesus had told his genuine disciples that "if you were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. Now because you are no part of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, on this account the world hates you."(John 15:19)

You really don't know what you're talking about when you try to separate the Christian history of the U.S. apart from God's Word The Bible. Christ established His Kingdom partially here on earth when He guided the Apostles and disciples with taking The Gospel especially to the western Christian nations, and by that those nations were blessed. Those early Christian nations also went through turmoils in their history from those who sought to destroy Christianity and all of God's people, and that has still continued today. Yet Christianity and The Gospel is STILL HERE TODAY. And IT is still going out to the nations and peoples outside the Christian West (even by Christian Forums like this one), and still producing MUCH fruit in Christ Jesus. It's the perspective you've been taught that is causing you such a slanted view against all that.


Jesus genuine disciples avoided any entanglements in the political arena, having nothing to do with it. Furthermore, James styles anyone who mixes with the "world" as an adulteress, saying: "Adulteresses, do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God."(James 4:4)

Man, you don't know how wrong you are about that. Per Acts 9:15, Christ Jesus chose Apostle Paul as His "chosen vessel" to take The Gospel to the Gentiles, to KINGS, and to the children of Israel. What is it you think 'kings' do? Kings have kingdoms they rule... over, and those kingdoms have people that under that rule and authority. In the 1st Edition of the 1611 KJV Bible, the translators addressed a letter to King James, calling him "Defender Of The Faith". Just as it was the responsibility of Israel's kings to defend God's Word to His people, those Christian kings were called to do the same thing. The U.S. is not left out of that either just because we have no king upon a throne, because the U.S. Constitution provides the rule of law with many laws from God's Word established through that founding document, and other founding documents. The U.S. court system in the U.S. today still follow many laws that originate from God's laws in The Bible. That's what those you're listening to are trying to tear down. Their speech is subversive speech against the United States of America and its people.


On the other hand, with the inception of the League of Nations in 1920, the Protestant clergy were not reticent in their support of the League. The New York Times for January 11, 1920, reported: “The London church bells this evening have been pealing in celebration of the conclusion of peace with Germany and the official coming into existence of the League of Nations.”

Not all Protestant clergies represent true Christians, and true Christian Churches in America, not even then. The Soviet Russians supported the idea of a United Nations control too (as per ex-FBI agent Cleon Skousen in his 1958 work The Naked Communist.) And just so happens, one can see Communist goals being supported by internationalist groups like the United Nations, things like destroying the sovereignty of the United States of America, along with other nations.


A booklet published in England under the title The Christian Church and the League of Nations stated: “The Christian Church in Great Britain supports the League of Nations. Here is an Affirmation made by the Archbishops of Canterbury and York, thirty-five English Diocesan Bishops, the Moderator of the Church of Scotland, and official representatives of all the Free Churches in England."

Once the United Nations apparatus was FORCED upon free nations after World War II, other nations HAD to join, or be left out of international affairs. And per U.S. history, Alger Hiss was one of the main instigators in the U.S. state department representing the signing of the U.S. onto the United Nations Charter in late 1940's San Francisco. Alger Hiss was also later discovered to be a Soviet Russian Communist SPY. Whittaker Chambers (another Soviet spy crept into the U.S. state dept. that was caught) testified to that fact. So like I said, the Communists wanted... the United Nations apparatus because it helped further their goal of World Communism. And trapping the U.S. to sign the charter was a way to force other free nations to follow suit to cause it become a bloated organization that often violates the sovereignity of nations and civil rights of peoples in many nations through pushing its internationalists laws, many laws that are clearly un-Constitutional in the U.S.


Prior to this, in December of 1918, the Federal Council of the Churches of Christ in America issued a declaration that said in part: “As Christians we urge the establishment of a League of Free Nations at the coming Peace Conference. Such a League is not a mere political expedient; it is rather the political expression of the Kingdom of God on earth.” It then went on to say: “The Church has much to give and much to gain. It can give a powerful sanction by imparting to the new international order something of the prophetic glory of the Kingdom of God. . . . The League of Nations is rooted in the Gospel.”

You mean the National Council of Churches that was established in 1950 (which was the old Federal Council of Churches that began earlier in the late 1800's and early 1900's). At present there are 37 Church organization members. That's still not all .... the Christian Church organizations in America. Movements like that has nothing to do with the 'real' Christian Churches in America that have Christ only as their Head. Such a movement I believe is actually the sin of the Nicolations idea that Christ warned of in Revelation. Organizations like that only make themselves an easy target for Christ's enemies to infiltrate and take over. So they may have begun with true purpose in mind in Christian unity. But by that kind of agreement with Socialism in 1918, they began leaving their original purpose, showing infiltration by Christ's enemies and insertion of anti-Christian doctrine. World Socialism is the basis of the Communist movement, especially in that era of 1918 when the un-elected Socialist Col. Mandel House was President Woodrow Wilson's right-hand man in the White House. Their Socialist plan failed in America then too, because U.S. Congress REFUSED to join that League of Nations Socialist organization at their leading. Many Church organizations in the U.S had been on the World Socialist boat for quite a while by 1918.


Another example, when the nations emerged from the horrors of World War II world leaders held out the United Nations as man’s ‘best hope for peace.’ With their hearts yearning for peace, men looked to this organization with keen expectation. At the signing of its charter in San Francisco in 1945, “church bells were rung. Christians crowded into their churches. They sang glad hosannas to the Prince of Peace. They thanked God that at long last an institution had been created to ‘save succeeding generations from the scourge of war.’”(The Churches and the United Nations, by Walter W. Van Kirk)

Of course they did that then. What had just happened then in that era? WWII, nuclear weapons. That was the purpose of using such technology to end WWII, in order to usher the naitons into the atomic era. And that was designed to cause what upon the nations? To scare them with the idea of nuclear annilhilation, mutual destruction. That's what it took for the free nations like the U.S. to agree to signing the U.N. Charter after WWII. Don't you think it funny that one of the mottos of the earlier League of Nations World War I era was "the war to end all wars"? Can't you see the people and Congress didn't believe it then in 1918, but did believe after they were presented with World War II and later technology?


The churches have a long history of political involvement, being as "part of the world" rather than "no part" of it. They have become "adulteresses", enemies of God, committing "fornication with the kings of the earth."

No, only CERTAIN Church organizations of men have that history. Not ALL Churches in America do, and that's where you're missing the point. Even the majority of peoples in those Churches in that Council you mention are far, far removed from those among them who meet behind closed doors and make up such proclamations.