America Was Not Founded Upon Godly Principles.

[n2thelight]

Anyone suggesting that Christianity had little influence on America is not familiar with history. Thirty-two percent of the Founding Fathers quotes – directly or indirectly – came from the Bible. The Bible was quoted four times more frequently than any other source. Most states required of their elected officials a profession of faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible before taking office.Spoken at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:"We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.” Samuel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Spoken to the chiefs of the Delaware Indian Tribe:"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ… Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention.” George Washington --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"In this age there can be no substitution for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.” House Judiciary Committee - 1854 PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” Northwest Ordinance 1789 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Public schools were initially established to insure that all children received lessons in the Bible so that propagation of the Christian faith would continue to the glory of God. Of the first 108 colleges, 106 were founded on the Christian faith established by Evangelical Christians.“Seeing God is the giver of all wisdom, every scholar, besides private or secret prayer, where all we are bound to ask shall be present morning and evening at public prayer in the hall at the accustomed hour….” Yale University requirement --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“For Christ and the church.” Official Harvard University motto --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God.” Gouverneur Morris --------------------------------------------------------------------------------How times have changed. Our nation is at risk! Our children are the victims! Is it reasonable to assume that government, without God, will solve our problems? Although our present day Supreme court purports to rule according to the precepts of the Constitution, their actions and statements do not coincide with those who drafted the document; suggesting that they are better equipped to understand the Constitution than those who wrote it."The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principals of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” John Quincy Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jefferson ENTER THE GODLESS “Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country.” Prayer ruled illegal 1966 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“We thank you for the flowers so sweet; we thank you for the food we eat; we thank you for the birds that sing; we thank you for everything.” Poem ruled illegal 1967 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“If the posted copies of the Ten Commandments are to have any effect at all, it will be to induce the school children to read, meditate upon, perhaps to venerate and obey the commandments…. This…is not a permissible state objective under the Establishment Clause” Supreme Court 1980 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------God has officially been removed from public education. Christian parents have acquiesced (given consent quietly without protest). The Founding Fathers knew what would result if the Christian faith faltered. “In 1940, teachers listed the top problems in public schools as: talking out of turn, chewing gum, making noise and running in halls.In 1990, teachers listed the top problems as: drug abuse, alcohol abuse, pregnancy, suicide and rape.” Heritage Foundation --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“As nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world they must be in this. By an inevitable chain of causes and effects providence punishes national sins, by national calamities.” George Mason We are seeing in America the results of a society giving in to the belief that man is no longer accountable to his Creator. Today we mock the wisdom of our founders because we ignore the Christian principals that they lived by. The turmoil that grows around us every day, is proof of our foolishness. “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“A general dissolution of principals and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” Samuel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jeffersonhttp://www.perry4congress.com/christianity.html

 

[preciousmessage]

(tim_from_pa;24027)
I think you are just taking things too much internally. I did not sense this at all, in spite of the fact that I am pretty much of a prescient person. I'm debating doctrine here---- and I tend to separate the message from the messenger. Back to the debate..... any other thoughts?
Jerusalem which now is pertains to the old covenant, "and is in bondage with her children." It will never be replaced by the City of God, the heavenly Jerusalem, which is "above" and is "free." Galatians 4:25:26.NOW IS will be still NOW IS twenty, thirty, two hundred, one thousand years from now.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

(n2thelight;24051)
Anyone suggesting that Christianity had little influence on America is not familiar with history. Thirty-two percent of the Founding Fathers quotes – directly or indirectly – came from the Bible. The Bible was quoted four times more frequently than any other source. Most states required of their elected officials a profession of faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible before taking office.Spoken at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:"We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.” Samuel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Spoken to the chiefs of the Delaware Indian Tribe:"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ… Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention.” George Washington --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"In this age there can be no substitution for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.” House Judiciary Committee - 1854 PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” Northwest Ordinance 1789 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Public schools were initially established to insure that all children received lessons in the Bible so that propagation of the Christian faith would continue to the glory of God. Of the first 108 colleges, 106 were founded on the Christian faith established by Evangelical Christians.“Seeing God is the giver of all wisdom, every scholar, besides private or secret prayer, where all we are bound to ask shall be present morning and evening at public prayer in the hall at the accustomed hour….” Yale University requirement --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“For Christ and the church.” Official Harvard University motto --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God.” Gouverneur Morris --------------------------------------------------------------------------------How times have changed. Our nation is at risk! Our children are the victims! Is it reasonable to assume that government, without God, will solve our problems? Although our present day Supreme court purports to rule according to the precepts of the Constitution, their actions and statements do not coincide with those who drafted the document; suggesting that they are better equipped to understand the Constitution than those who wrote it."The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principals of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” John Quincy Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jefferson ENTER THE GODLESS “Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country.” Prayer ruled illegal 1966 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“We thank you for the flowers so sweet; we thank you for the food we eat; we thank you for the birds that sing; we thank you for everything.” Poem ruled illegal 1967 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“If the posted copies of the Ten Commandments are to have any effect at all, it will be to induce the school children to read, meditate upon, perhaps to venerate and obey the commandments…. This…is not a permissible state objective under the Establishment Clause” Supreme Court 1980 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------God has officially been removed from public education. Christian parents have acquiesced (given consent quietly without protest). The Founding Fathers knew what would result if the Christian faith faltered. “In 1940, teachers listed the top problems in public schools as: talking out of turn, chewing gum, making noise and running in halls.In 1990, teachers listed the top problems as: drug abuse, alcohol abuse, pregnancy, suicide and rape.” Heritage Foundation --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“As nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world they must be in this. By an inevitable chain of causes and effects providence punishes national sins, by national calamities.” George Mason We are seeing in America the results of a society giving in to the belief that man is no longer accountable to his Creator. Today we mock the wisdom of our founders because we ignore the Christian principals that they lived by. The turmoil that grows around us every day, is proof of our foolishness. “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“A general dissolution of principals and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” Samuel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jeffersonhttp://www.perry4congress.com/christianity.html
Yet these were men that brought over slavery, advocated Segregation amongst the Colored and Whites. Fell into Apostasy soon after with Secularization. Not to mention the Salem Witch Trials, false persecutions. This country was not founded on Christian Principals, it was founded on WORLDLY freedom, which we do not deserve. Although George Washington said
You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ… Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention
Let us not forget, he too was a Free Mason. You cannot serve two masters. You cannot serve Man and God. You cannot Serve Mammon and God, and definitely cannot serve Satan and God. America is the Equivalent to babylon, it rose to power quickly, and since it is judged will fall as heavy as Rome and Babylon.

 

[preciousmessage]

(n2thelight;24051)
Anyone suggesting that Christianity had little influence on America is not familiar with history. Thirty-two percent of the Founding Fathers quotes – directly or indirectly – came from the Bible. The Bible was quoted four times more frequently than any other source. Most states required of their elected officials a profession of faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible before taking office.Spoken at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:"We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.” Samuel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Spoken to the chiefs of the Delaware Indian Tribe:"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ… Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention.” George Washington --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"In this age there can be no substitution for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.” House Judiciary Committee - 1854 PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” Northwest Ordinance 1789 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Public schools were initially established to insure that all children received lessons in the Bible so that propagation of the Christian faith would continue to the glory of God. Of the first 108 colleges, 106 were founded on the Christian faith established by Evangelical Christians.“Seeing God is the giver of all wisdom, every scholar, besides private or secret prayer, where all we are bound to ask shall be present morning and evening at public prayer in the hall at the accustomed hour….” Yale University requirement --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“For Christ and the church.” Official Harvard University motto --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God.” Gouverneur Morris --------------------------------------------------------------------------------How times have changed. Our nation is at risk! Our children are the victims! Is it reasonable to assume that government, without God, will solve our problems? Although our present day Supreme court purports to rule according to the precepts of the Constitution, their actions and statements do not coincide with those who drafted the document; suggesting that they are better equipped to understand the Constitution than those who wrote it."The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principals of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” John Quincy Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jefferson ENTER THE GODLESS “Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country.” Prayer ruled illegal 1966 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“We thank you for the flowers so sweet; we thank you for the food we eat; we thank you for the birds that sing; we thank you for everything.” Poem ruled illegal 1967 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“If the posted copies of the Ten Commandments are to have any effect at all, it will be to induce the school children to read, meditate upon, perhaps to venerate and obey the commandments…. This…is not a permissible state objective under the Establishment Clause” Supreme Court 1980 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------God has officially been removed from public education. Christian parents have acquiesced (given consent quietly without protest). The Founding Fathers knew what would result if the Christian faith faltered. “In 1940, teachers listed the top problems in public schools as: talking out of turn, chewing gum, making noise and running in halls.In 1990, teachers listed the top problems as: drug abuse, alcohol abuse, pregnancy, suicide and rape.” Heritage Foundation --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“As nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world they must be in this. By an inevitable chain of causes and effects providence punishes national sins, by national calamities.” George Mason We are seeing in America the results of a society giving in to the belief that man is no longer accountable to his Creator. Today we mock the wisdom of our founders because we ignore the Christian principals that they lived by. The turmoil that grows around us every day, is proof of our foolishness. “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“A general dissolution of principals and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” Samuel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jeffersonhttp://www.perry4congress.com/christianity.html
Thanks for the wonderful words, but where is the "faith of Jesus?" In other words, where are God's words when making your point? I can have 3,000,000 words of man, but if God's word is not included to make a certain doctrinal point, then they mean absolutely nothing. I'm not understanding this "thread." If we are Christians, God's word alone will decide the issue, is that true? A "Christian Nation" means ALL are Christians. According to the BIBLE, FEW are Christians, no matter the rhetoric of politicians and man. So you are basing your theory on the idea that this is a Christian nation contrary to God's word that "few" are Christians. I will stick closely to God's word dear brother. Since most are nonbelievers in this "present age" why should we not say, this is a heathen nation according to God's word? Brother, I am NOT trying to be sarcastic or unruly in any way. I just want to know if God said "himself" anywhere in scripture pertaining to "Christian Nations" backing up your theory. blessings in Christ to you,Jake

 

[preciousmessage]

(n2thelight;24051)
Anyone suggesting that Christianity had little influence on America is not familiar with history. Thirty-two percent of the Founding Fathers quotes – directly or indirectly – came from the Bible. The Bible was quoted four times more frequently than any other source. Most states required of their elected officials a profession of faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible before taking office.Spoken at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:"We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.” Samuel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Spoken to the chiefs of the Delaware Indian Tribe:"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ… Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention.” George Washington --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"In this age there can be no substitution for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.” House Judiciary Committee - 1854 PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” Northwest Ordinance 1789 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Public schools were initially established to insure that all children received lessons in the Bible so that propagation of the Christian faith would continue to the glory of God. Of the first 108 colleges, 106 were founded on the Christian faith established by Evangelical Christians.“Seeing God is the giver of all wisdom, every scholar, besides private or secret prayer, where all we are bound to ask shall be present morning and evening at public prayer in the hall at the accustomed hour….” Yale University requirement --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“For Christ and the church.” Official Harvard University motto --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God.” Gouverneur Morris --------------------------------------------------------------------------------How times have changed. Our nation is at risk! Our children are the victims! Is it reasonable to assume that government, without God, will solve our problems? Although our present day Supreme court purports to rule according to the precepts of the Constitution, their actions and statements do not coincide with those who drafted the document; suggesting that they are better equipped to understand the Constitution than those who wrote it."The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principals of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” John Quincy Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jefferson ENTER THE GODLESS “Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country.” Prayer ruled illegal 1966 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“We thank you for the flowers so sweet; we thank you for the food we eat; we thank you for the birds that sing; we thank you for everything.” Poem ruled illegal 1967 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“If the posted copies of the Ten Commandments are to have any effect at all, it will be to induce the school children to read, meditate upon, perhaps to venerate and obey the commandments…. This…is not a permissible state objective under the Establishment Clause” Supreme Court 1980 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------God has officially been removed from public education. Christian parents have acquiesced (given consent quietly without protest). The Founding Fathers knew what would result if the Christian faith faltered. “In 1940, teachers listed the top problems in public schools as: talking out of turn, chewing gum, making noise and running in halls.In 1990, teachers listed the top problems as: drug abuse, alcohol abuse, pregnancy, suicide and rape.” Heritage Foundation --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“As nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world they must be in this. By an inevitable chain of causes and effects providence punishes national sins, by national calamities.” George Mason We are seeing in America the results of a society giving in to the belief that man is no longer accountable to his Creator. Today we mock the wisdom of our founders because we ignore the Christian principals that they lived by. The turmoil that grows around us every day, is proof of our foolishness. “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“A general dissolution of principals and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” Samuel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jeffersonhttp://www.perry4congress.com/christianity.html
These are fine quotes from respectable people in the short run, and history IS important in proper context. ... but. ... This may come as a surprise to you brother, but Rome, who "believed" in Jesus Christ, (and I could give you thousands of "Christlike" quotes from their politicians and "believers"), but that did not stop them from slaughtering millions and millions of Christians, why?, because they did not believe in the same "doctrine" (teaching) of Christ, they really did not believe in Christ. That's why we want to come into the same unity! But many do not think this is a big deal. According to scripture (Daniel & Revelation), history will repeat itself in some form. May God have mercy on our souls. Love you brother, let's go to the Bible for our ultimate answer to any questions regarding the "kingdom of heaven." Are we trying to "defend" America's doctrine or God's doctrine? We are "discussing" these matters because they "do" matter, and it may be, and for many, be of eternal consequences. Jake

 

[n2thelight]

they really did not believe in Christ. That's why we want to come into the same unity! But many do not think this is a big deal. According to scripture (Daniel & Revelation), history will repeat itself in some form. May God have mercy on our souls. Love you brother, let's go to the Bible for our ultimate answer to any questions regarding the "kingdom of heaven." Are we trying to "defend" America's doctrine or God's doctrine? We are "discussing" these matters because they "do" matter, and it may be, and for many, be of eternal consequences. Jake
That's the key right there,they really did'nt believe,however I do believe that the founding fathers of America did.(believe in Christ)We are the nation that God made the promise about to Abraham.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

No were not Because this is not the Land that the True Jews will be returning to.

 

[n2thelight]

Unorthodox Christian
No were not Because this is not the Land that the True Jews will be returning to.
When you say true Jew,what do you mean?Yes we are the descendants of the lost Northern Ten Tribes of Israel. We are the chosen people of God. Look around the world, who is the last light of hope in the world? That does not mean that we are Jewish, for as you see by the division of the original 12 tribes descended from Jacob/Israel; Judah is only one of those twelve tribes, and Jews are only a small portion of them who mixed with the heathen both physically and religiously. As of Jan 2, 2000, there are only 13 million Jews on the planet (as per www.adherents.com), that is less than 1% of the total global population which is 6,099,686,302 (6 billion plus) as of 4:04 EDT Oct 1, 2000 per Popclock™. But in God's covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob He promised:Gen 13:1616 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. (KJV)Gen 17:44 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. (KJV)Gen 28:1414 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. (KJV)Gen 35:1111 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; (KJV)Gen 32:1212 And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude. (KJV) Rom 9:2727 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: (KJV)Well then, where are all these people now?!? Those that we now call 'Jews' today are only a portion of the true Tribe of Judah who have intermixed with their Babylonian captors, the heathen and profane descendants of Cain, the first murderer. In other words, all those of the tribe of Judah are not Jews, and none of the lost Ten Tribes are Jews. It is important to understand the differences so that you know who the Bible is speaking about in a particular verse."...and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name..." {Isa 62:2} The Old Testament Prophets told that God would change the name of His people. They would be named after Him. And by the name "Christians" they were named after God. Jesus, which in the Hebrew language is: Yehoshua, which means: Yehovah’s (God’s) Savior, Salvation of Yehovah (God). And with Christ, His followers are called Christ men, hence: Christians. So then, in the New Testament prophecies in the book of Revelation, Christians are Israel, God’s chosen, called by a new name (Isa 62:2 below), called by His name - Jesus Christ - Christ men - Christians.Isa 62:22 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name. (KJV)Isa 62:1212 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken. (KJV)Isa 65:1515 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name (KJV)Jer 33:1616 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness. (KJV)Acts 11:2626 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. (KJV) This should clear up Revelation chapter seven where the 144,000 "sealed of Israel" are mentioned, they are Christians who, since the Assyrian captivity and deportations of 611 B.C. were stripped of their name Israel! As it is written, because of idolatry, God caused Israel to not know who they are, and the rest of the world is also ignorant as to who true Israel is todayeut 32:26 (God speaking)26 I said, I would scatter them [Israel] into corners [all corners of the world], I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men (KJV) They (Israel) are mentioned in the New Testament though, for example, the book of James is written to them, written to us: "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." {James 1:1}. And again: "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." {1 Pet 1:1-2}.

 

[Unorthodox Christian]

The Old Testament Prophets told that God would change the name of His people. They would be named after Him. And by the name "Christians" they were named after God. Jesus, which in the Hebrew language is: Yehoshua, which means: Yehovah’s (God’s) Savior, Salvation of Yehovah (God). And with Christ, His followers are called Christ men, hence: Christians.
There are Messianic Jews. Hence them being called a Name like God's Name. Messianic, PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN YHWH, not Yehovah, but YWHW's Salvation. These are the Jews who understand who the Moshiach is, the Messiah, which is Y'shua HaMashiach(or Yeshua Christ). Then there are the Gentiles who believe in Christ(The Spiritual Seed of Abraham) perhaps even literal as well, who were renamed Christians. Also in Hebrew or Aramaic as you would have it, Messianics. There are so much discrepancies about our name. Messianic or Christian, we are One. With that said, the Natural Foreshadows the spiritual always. The Literal Israel is a Spiritual one as Well. America is no the Promised Land, Canaan Land is, and all who are of the elect of Y'shua HaMashiach will dwell in New YeruShaliyim(Jerusalem) The City of Peace and Righteousness. The land of the Yisrae'lites.

 

[jkdjr25]

I'll just let Chesterton speak for me on this one.The Declaration of Independence dogmatically bases all rights on the fact that God created all men equal; and it is right; for if they were not created equal, they were certainly evolved unequal. There is no basis for democracy except in a dogma about the divine origin of man." - Chapter 19, What I Saw In America, 1922 I'll close with saying that I disagree with the idea that America wasn't founded on Christian principles and leave it at that.

 

[preciousmessage]

(n2thelight;24148)
That's the key right there,they really did'nt believe,however I do believe that the founding fathers of America did.(believe in Christ)We are the nation that God made the promise about to Abraham.
Perhaps that's why "slavery" was the mainstay for many of those prominent "Christians." Ironically speaking. There is a great difference speaking in Christian rhetoric and actually living like one. Christianity is based upon being "born from above" as individuals. If we are a Christian nation then, "many are called, few are chosen" is a lie. I'm not sure why our opinion seems to supersede God's word.

 

[jkdjr25]

I guess it must be nice to lead sinless lives and be perfect here on earth. To be able to determine who was and wasn't a Christian post mortem must be a great talent. *sarcasm mode off*The founding fathers weren't perfect, nor were they sinless. They did however found a nation based on the God given principle that we are ALL created equal in His eyes. That we are endowed with certain freedoms by that Creator and that the chiefest of these freedoms is that which allows us to practice our faith openly and without fear of persecution by the government. We must not forget this truth nor take it for granted, such things always lead to pride and a fall.

 

[n2thelight]

preciousmessage
Perhaps that's why "slavery" was the mainstay for many of those prominent "Christians." Ironically speaking. There is a great difference speaking in Christian rhetoric and actually living like one. Christianity is based upon being "born from above" as individuals. If we are a Christian nation then, "many are called, few are chosen" is a lie. I'm not sure why our opinion seems to supersede God's word.
I said we were founded on Christian principles,never said that we were perfect,or sinless.Slavery indeed was wrong,and speaking as a black male,it hurts to think back to that time,however we are not the only race to have been enslaved.If you want to go a little deeper into the subject of slavery,do your research and you will see what peoples actually brought slavery to America.We are the most bleesed nation in the history of mankind that in and of itself should tell you something.

 

[Shelli]

(n2thelight;24051)
Anyone suggesting that Christianity had little influence on America is not familiar with history. Thirty-two percent of the Founding Fathers quotes – directly or indirectly – came from the Bible. The Bible was quoted four times more frequently than any other source. Most states required of their elected officials a profession of faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible before taking office.Spoken at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:"We have this day restored the Sovereign to whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven, and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.” Samuel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Spoken to the chiefs of the Delaware Indian Tribe:"You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ… Congress will do every thing they can to assist you in this wise intention.” George Washington --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"In this age there can be no substitution for Christianity… That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.” House Judiciary Committee - 1854 PUBLIC SCHOOLS WERE CHRISTIAN SCHOOLS“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” Northwest Ordinance 1789 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Public schools were initially established to insure that all children received lessons in the Bible so that propagation of the Christian faith would continue to the glory of God. Of the first 108 colleges, 106 were founded on the Christian faith established by Evangelical Christians.“Seeing God is the giver of all wisdom, every scholar, besides private or secret prayer, where all we are bound to ask shall be present morning and evening at public prayer in the hall at the accustomed hour….” Yale University requirement --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“For Christ and the church.” Official Harvard University motto --------------------------------------------------------------------------------"Religion is the only solid basis of good morals; therefore education should teach the precepts of religion, and the duties of man towards God.” Gouverneur Morris --------------------------------------------------------------------------------How times have changed. Our nation is at risk! Our children are the victims! Is it reasonable to assume that government, without God, will solve our problems? Although our present day Supreme court purports to rule according to the precepts of the Constitution, their actions and statements do not coincide with those who drafted the document; suggesting that they are better equipped to understand the Constitution than those who wrote it."The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected, in one indissoluble bond, the principals of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” John Quincy Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“Our Constitution was made for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jefferson ENTER THE GODLESS “Almighty God, we acknowledge our dependence on Thee, and we beg Thy blessings upon us, our parents, our teachers, and our country.” Prayer ruled illegal 1966 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“We thank you for the flowers so sweet; we thank you for the food we eat; we thank you for the birds that sing; we thank you for everything.” Poem ruled illegal 1967 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“If the posted copies of the Ten Commandments are to have any effect at all, it will be to induce the school children to read, meditate upon, perhaps to venerate and obey the commandments…. This…is not a permissible state objective under the Establishment Clause” Supreme Court 1980 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------God has officially been removed from public education. Christian parents have acquiesced (given consent quietly without protest). The Founding Fathers knew what would result if the Christian faith faltered. “In 1940, teachers listed the top problems in public schools as: talking out of turn, chewing gum, making noise and running in halls.In 1990, teachers listed the top problems as: drug abuse, alcohol abuse, pregnancy, suicide and rape.” Heritage Foundation --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“As nations cannot be rewarded or punished in the next world they must be in this. By an inevitable chain of causes and effects providence punishes national sins, by national calamities.” George Mason We are seeing in America the results of a society giving in to the belief that man is no longer accountable to his Creator. Today we mock the wisdom of our founders because we ignore the Christian principals that they lived by. The turmoil that grows around us every day, is proof of our foolishness. “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“A general dissolution of principals and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.” Samuel Adams --------------------------------------------------------------------------------“And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that His justice cannot sleep forever.” Thomas Jeffersonhttp://www.perry4congress.com/christianity.html
n2,Was the Sovereign "restored," as Adams said? Or, was he just imagining it? Was that statement Scriptural, as you said it was?Did Congress actually do everything they could to help the Native Americans obtain the religion of Jesus, as G. Washington said?Was religion "forever encouraged" in the Noirthwest Public Schools, or was this statement empty?Yale College and Harvard College were private endeavors, not part of the government or the founding of the Nation.Did Gouverneur Morris have anything to do with the founding of America?Did John Quincy Adams have any Scripture to back up his claims that "It [the American revolution] connected ... the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity?"If our Constitution "was made for a moral and religious people," as John Adams declared, does our Constitution no apply to atheists?I could continue to expose the cognitive errors of both those you quote and of yourself. It sounds like you, and your ideological peers, believe that you can prove your point by indisciminately fishing around for any sort of preserved statement from dead people which, on its outward surface, seems to indicate Godliness. But such does not.You have still failed to show any Scripture which gives a "right" of people to pursue and have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. And, neither did the founding fathers. They had the same cognitive problem about Scripture as have the people today who try to claim America was started as a theocracy.Shelli.

 

[Shelli]

(n2thelight;24148)
That's the key right there,they really did'nt believe,however I do believe that the founding fathers of America did.(believe in Christ)We are the nation that God made the promise about to Abraham.
That's the "key" right there! What you believe about America being the nation of promise to Abraham is entirely from your imagination.If so, why did the founding fathers not follow through on their glorious statements? Perhaps their statements were presumptuous and powerless. Do you know the meaning of those two words ... ?That's the "key."

 

[Shelli]

(n2thelight;24162)
Unorthodox ChristianWhen you say true Jew,what do you mean?Yes we are the descendants of the lost Northern Ten Tribes of Israel. We are the chosen people of God. Look around the world, who is the last light of hope in the world? That does not mean that we are Jewish, for as you see by the division of the original 12 tribes descended from Jacob/Israel; Judah is only one of those twelve tribes, and Jews are only a small portion of them who mixed with the heathen both physically and religiously. As of Jan 2, 2000, there are only 13 million Jews on the planet (as per www.adherents.com), that is less than 1% of the total global population which is 6,099,686,302 (6 billion plus) as of 4:04 EDT Oct 1, 2000 per Popclock™. But in God's covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob He promised:Gen 13:1616 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. (KJV)Gen 17:44 As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations. (KJV)Gen 28:1414 And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed. (KJV)Gen 35:1111 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins; (KJV)Gen 32:1212 And thou saidst, I will surely do thee good, and make thy seed as the sand of the sea, which cannot be numbered for multitude. (KJV) Rom 9:2727 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: (KJV)Well then, where are all these people now?!? Those that we now call 'Jews' today are only a portion of the true Tribe of Judah who have intermixed with their Babylonian captors, the heathen and profane descendants of Cain, the first murderer. In other words, all those of the tribe of Judah are not Jews, and none of the lost Ten Tribes are Jews. It is important to understand the differences so that you know who the Bible is speaking about in a particular verse."...and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name..." {Isa 62:2} The Old Testament Prophets told that God would change the name of His people. They would be named after Him. And by the name "Christians" they were named after God. Jesus, which in the Hebrew language is: Yehoshua, which means: Yehovah’s (God’s) Savior, Salvation of Yehovah (God). And with Christ, His followers are called Christ men, hence: Christians. So then, in the New Testament prophecies in the book of Revelation, Christians are Israel, God’s chosen, called by a new name (Isa 62:2 below), called by His name - Jesus Christ - Christ men - Christians.Isa 62:22 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name. (KJV)Isa 62:1212 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken. (KJV)Isa 65:1515 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name (KJV)Jer 33:1616 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness. (KJV)Acts 11:2626 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. (KJV) This should clear up Revelation chapter seven where the 144,000 "sealed of Israel" are mentioned, they are Christians who, since the Assyrian captivity and deportations of 611 B.C. were stripped of their name Israel! As it is written, because of idolatry, God caused Israel to not know who they are, and the rest of the world is also ignorant as to who true Israel is todayeut 32:26 (God speaking)26 I said, I would scatter them [Israel] into corners [all corners of the world], I would make the remembrance of them to cease from among men (KJV) They (Israel) are mentioned in the New Testament though, for example, the book of James is written to them, written to us: "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." {James 1:1}. And again: "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied." {1 Pet 1:1-2}.
n2,Try to follow this.Even of all of the lineage of Israel does exist today, as you say, what does that have to do with the supposed "Godly" founding of America? The two things are not related outside of your imagination. Did any of the founding fathers speak of this "10 Jewish tribes in America" business? No, they did not.If God provided Prophesy in Deut. 32:26 saying He would "make the remembrance of them [the 12 tribes] to cease," how can you reliably talk of them today?When speaking of God, and when attempting to represent His Kingdom, it is best to avoid flakey ideas.

 

[jkdjr25]

America was never founded as a theocracy. I don't think anyone has claimed that.However the republic that was founded was grouned in Biblical principles, something that Chesterton noted was proof that our Constitution was dogmaticly correct.I believe it was Paul who wrote that Christ came that we might have life and live it more abundantly. I don't remeber the exact chapter and verse but that line sticks out in my head.In order that we might create a union where people are free to worship God openly and without fear of Government intrusion or persecuation. That is the true meaning of liberty. It is a gift from the Most High God to us. Freedom is the natural desire of the spirit and no greater freedom can be found outside of God's grace. Those are all Christian ideals. We may not achieve happiness but God does not forbid us from pursuing it. In fact I believe people can't be truly happy unless they are acting in obedience to God. If you truly believe we have it so bad here in the United States, by all means move to a country in the middle east and see how free you are to worhip there. In many of those countries being a non-muslim is a death penalty offense.That's exactly the kind of thing that the founding fathers didn't want. That's why there was no state established Chruch. People must be free to make the choice to come to God. Our country has had the unique blessing of being able to beam the Gospel over satelite and over the internet, giving us access to nations where missionaries are forbidden to travel by the government. If for other reason than this, I thank Almighty God for my country, and I thank Him for the Biblical principles upon which it was founded.

 

[whirlwind]

(n2thelight;24446)
preciousmessageI said we were founded on Christian principles,never said that we were perfect,or sinless.Slavery indeed was wrong,and speaking as a black male,it hurts to think back to that time,however we are not the only race to have been enslaved.If you want to go a little deeper into the subject of slavery,do your research and you will see what peoples actually brought slavery to America.We are the most bleesed nation in the history of mankind that in and of itself should tell you something.
n2thelight....I love your message, I agree with your message and the way in which you present it. His light shines through you. :angel9:We are the most blessed nation because we are founded by our Father.........Whirlwind

 

[tim_from_pa]

("preciousmessage")
Jerusalem which now is pertains to the old covenant, "and is in bondage with her children." It will never be replaced by the City of God, the heavenly Jerusalem, which is "above" and is "free." Galatians 4:25:26.NOW IS will be still NOW IS twenty, thirty, two hundred, one thousand years from now.
I sense that since I believe that the US came from Israel that you think that I am advocating the Old Covenant and back to the Law as opposed to the New Covenant and the Life in Christ. You severely misunderstand me. The Old Israel was lost to history so that these same people could become Gentiles and become recovenanted in Christ for the New Covenant! Hence, God used the seed of Abraham as He promised him in Genesis instead of non-Israelite Gentiles the way the church teaches!! There is a whole theology, thought and purpose behind the lost tribes teaching. There's more to it than "Usa is Manasseh" or whatever. Basically, people who do not understand it, as I sense you are, has to restudy their bible just like the first time they read it as a baby Christian and learn all over again and discard the junk that they've been taught. Most of the church is in reality worldly.

 

[preciousmessage]

(jkdjr25;24508)
America was never founded as a theocracy. I don't think anyone has claimed that.In order that we might create a union where people are free to worship God openly and without fear of Government intrusion or persecuation. That is the true meaning of liberty. It is a gift from the Most High God to us. Freedom is the natural desire of the spirit and no greater freedom can be found outside of God's grace. Those are all Christian ideals. We may not achieve happiness but God does not forbid us from pursuing it. In fact I believe people can't be truly happy unless they are acting in obedience to God.
The only true religious liberty is the liberty which comes alone through our Lord Jesus Christ. Everything which stops short of this fails by so much to reach complete freedom; but whom the Son makes free is free indeed. John 8:36. Anything outside of Christ is complete bondage to sin. Romans 6. The Bible’s message is not a message in mere word: the message consists in the spirit and the truth of the gospel of God, which is righteousness by faith: the very keeping, in heart and life, of “the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” A person may have “freedom” to visit every church in this land, yet if a person is not justified by the faith of Jesus Christ, and has not in him and upon him the righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ, he has no liberty at all. In Christ’s message there will be power to deliver souls from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God, which is the only true religious liberty.“Every one of us shall give account of himself to God.” Civil law's not moral laws can a country make. Jake