ANALYSIS OF MATTHEW 24:12-13 - WHY IT DISPROVES OSAS

[ATP]

"Agape" in every post? Have you read the O/P? It's an analysis of what Jesus said in Matthew 24:212-13 KJV and I'm trying to steer the conversation back to it, because people seem to think that steering away from the thread topic is the best way to meet the challenges that topic presents. So far, your only rebuttal is to to insist that the "many" are not saints, even though the saints are known by their agape for God, for man, and for having agape perfected in them, which agape Jesus says the "many" possessed before it turned cold and dead.

Not sticking to the O/P is a violation of forum rules.

Not surprising, though, seeing that OSAS was fabricated so that those who refuse to obey rules and commandments can still retain salvation. Perhaps the idea of OSAS has led some to believe in ORAR - "once registered, always registered" - which allows them to violate forum rules at will.

1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

 

[Phoneman777]

He didnt say teh many would be following Him did He. Love has being diminishing in this world since Adam and eve, and is hard to find even amongst christians. If you Loved God you would believe Him, when He says you are saved you would believe Him, but so many christians cant understand how God can love them so much as to save them without their help. No pm, this topic is a bit like explaining to you about trees but not being allowed to mention flowers. You only "want" your answer, and you wont get it. As i said before, Jesus will let you go round and round and round till you get it.Untill we are willing to admit we are wrong and He is right, till we are willing to be emptied of ourselves and let go of all that we know so He can fil us with Himself, we remain unteachable. A glass filled with mud cant be filled with clean water untill it is emptied and washed clean.

In all His Love

I very much appreciate you responding to the O/P.

Jesus said the "many" possessed agape that grows cold and dead. Agape love is the kind of love that comes only from God - which is why it's known as "Godly love". These "many" had to have been saints (sinners do not receive agape from God nor impart it to others) but due to iniquity, their agape grows cold and dead. Therefore, if the saints are known by their:

• agape for God
• agape for others
• agape perfected in them

these "many" can no longer be counted as saints. OSAS insists that these ex-saints can still go to heaven, which makes no sense.

 

[Phoneman777]

1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

I'm not sure what this post has to do with Matthew 24:12 KJV which teaches that the "many" cease to possess the Biblical characteristics of saints:

1. agape for God
2. agape for others
3. agape perfected in them.

OSAS insists that these ex-saints who no longer possess these characteristics and are incapable of keeping the Two Great Commandments are heaven bound, which is redonkulous.

 

[ATP]

I'm not sure what this post has to do with Matthew 24:12 KJV which teaches that the "many" cease to possess the Biblical characteristics of saints:

1. agape for God
2. agape for others
3. agape perfected in them.

OSAS insists that these ex-saints who no longer possess these characteristics and are incapable of keeping the Two Great Commandments are heaven bound, which is redonkulous.

1 Cor 15:17-18 NIV clearly state that we have been forgiven of past, present and future sins, and that believers are not considered the "lost". Do you believe in the resurrection Phone?

 

[Phoneman777]

1 Cor 15:17-18 NIV clearly state that we have been forgiven of past, present and future sins, and that believers are not considered the "lost". Do you believe in the resurrection Phone?

A person who allows iniquity to grow their agape cold and dead is no longer a believing saint, ATP, and therefore no longer receives all these promises that you keep referring to that belong to surrendered saints who possess agape for God, for others, and have agape perfected in them.

Do you believe that these "many" ex-saints who are "agape-less" and do not love God with all their heart, soul, and mind, and do not love their neighbor as they love themselves will go to heaven?

 

[ATP]

A person who allows iniquity to grow their agape cold and dead is no longer a believing saint, ATP, and therefore no longer receives all these promises that you keep referring to that belong to surrendered saints who possess agape for God, for others, and have agape perfected in them.

Do you believe that these "many" ex-saints who are "agape-less" and do not love God with all their heart, soul, and mind, and do not love their neighbor as they love themselves will go to heaven?

You are stuck on one verse, condemning everything else God says. Not good Phone.

 

[ATP]

In 2,000 years people have been fighting over OSAS, but don't worry Phoneman has solved the riddle! :lol:

 

[Phoneman777]

You are stuck on one verse, condemning everything else God says. Not good Phone.

No, you are confusing "saints" with "non-saints" which do not partake of the things of God, INCLUDING His promises.

 

[Phoneman777]

In 2,000 years people have been fighting over OSAS, but don't worry Phoneman has solved the riddle! :lol:

What riddle? The issue is as plain as the nose on your face. Ex-saints are not going to heaven.

 

[mjrhealth]

gain. a thousnad reasons why God cant save man, but its because of Chrsit that He can, where is your faith, dont you believe God??

In all His Love

 

[Phoneman777]

gain. a thousnad reasons why God cant save man, but its because of Chrsit that He can, where is your faith, dont you believe God??

In all His Love

It is you along with your OSAS faith that teaches a man may obtain by dead faith that which can be obtained only by living faith: Eternal Life.

Your hope is that the "many" who had their agape turn cold and dead and are unable to keep the Two Great Commandments of love will still go to heaven even though Jesus said, "If ye love (agapao) Me, keep My commandments."

You want God to force Himself on those who no longer wish to remain surrendered to Him, as if He is some sort of cosmic rapist. No, friend, we must willingly surrender and remain surrendered to Him if we are to be truly saints who have (1) agape for God (2) for others (3) and agape perfected in us.

 

[mjrhealth]

It is you along with your OSAS faith that teaches a man may obtain by dead faith that which can be obtained only by living faith: Eternal Life.

No phoneman, dead faith comes from those whom believe in nothing, those who deny the power of God into resurection life, those who havnt truly accepted the works that Christ has done and so dont come into His life, those whom believe man has power over God when all it is, is denying Him and walking in unbelief, which is disobedience, it is those whom deny His Love for man, whom insist that God needs man to save him when it is us who needs Him to save man, it is those who dont believe God, who insist in leaning on their own understanding and never taking things to God. it is those who insist on doint their own works to try and please God when it is by Faith we please God, but Faith requires us to believe in things not seeing, nor heard, thats why it is called faith.

Living faith believes God, living faith trusts God, living faith knows that God will do what he said He will do, living faith lets God do His work through us, it is not our works that is why we rest in Christ from our own works as He (Jesus)did, living faith belives in Gods power to resurect man from the dead(sin) into His (jesus) resurected life, living faith allows us to see our selfs "saved" becasue we believe God it is the Power of God, which so many deny.

In all His Love

 

[Phoneman777]

No phoneman, dead faith comes from those whom believe in nothing, those who deny the power of God into resurection life, those who havnt truly accepted the works that Christ has done and so dont come into His life, those whom believe man has power over God when all it is, is denying Him and walking in unbelief, which is disobedience, it is those whom deny His Love for man, whom insist that God needs man to save him when it is us who needs Him to save man, it is those who dont believe God, who insist in leaning on their own understanding and never taking things to God. it is those who insist on doint their own works to try and please God when it is by Faith we please God, but Faith requires us to believe in things not seeing, nor heard, thats why it is called faith.

Living faith believes God, living faith trusts God, living faith knows that God will do what he said He will do, living faith lets God do His work through us, it is not our works that is why we rest in Christ from our own works as He (Jesus)did, living faith belives in Gods power to resurect man from the dead(sin) into His (jesus) resurected life, living faith allows us to see our selfs "saved" becasue we believe God it is the Power of God, which so many deny.

In all His Love

No, bro, the Bible defines "dead faith" as "faith without works":

"Therefore, as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." (James 2:26 KJV)

That is why OSAS, which preaches "faith alone" salvation, is "dead faith" and is a false doctrine because it claims dead faith can obtain that which only be obtained by living faith: Eternal Life.

The "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV had "living faith" but they exchanged it for "dead faith" through iniquity because the one and only component that can produce "living faith" - agape - turned cold and dead in them.

 

[mjrhealth]

No, bro, the Bible defines "dead faith" as "faith without works":

"Therefore, as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." (James 2:26 KJV)

His works not yours just as I said.

it is not our works that is why we rest in Christ from our own works as He (Jesus)did

Jesus did nothing taht was not from God just as we can do nothing without Him,

All our works are dead and as fithy rags

Joh_9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Joh_9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Joh_10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh_10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh_10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh_10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

In all His Love

 

[Phoneman777]

His works not yours just as I said.


Jesus did nothing taht was not from God just as we can do nothing without Him,

All our works are dead and as fithy rags

Joh_9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Joh_9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
Joh_10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
Joh_10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
Joh_10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh_10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

In all His Love

I'd be happy to explain why your analysis of James 2 is completely off base, but not here.

The purpose of this thread is to examine whether OSAS stands the test of the Scriptural scrutiny of Matthew 24:12-13 KJV. So far, none of you pro-OSAS have been able to offer any explanation as to how the "many" can be any longer counted among the "saints" when the no longer possess that which the Bible says the saints must possess: agape. Furthermore, they are contrasted in verse 13 with the man who "shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved."

If you have some reasonable explanation how it is that "agape-less" people who can no longer keep the Two Great Commandments of God and no longer possess this "agape" which the Bible says a heaven-bound saint must possess, please give it, and stop with this pathetically ludicrous strategy of avoiding the O/P topic so that you can remain securely comforted in your false eternal security of OSAS.

 

[ATP]

You want God to force Himself on those who no longer wish to remain surrendered to Him, as if He is some sort of cosmic rapist.

But rape is a sin, and God is sinless.

I'd be happy to explain why your analysis of James 2 is completely off base, but not here.

The purpose of this thread is to examine whether OSAS stands the test of the Scriptural scrutiny of Matthew 24:12-13 KJV. So far, none of you pro-OSAS have been able to offer any explanation as to how the "many" can be any longer counted among the "saints" when the no longer possess that which the Bible says the saints must possess: agape. Furthermore, they are contrasted in verse 13 with the man who "shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved."

The Olivet Discourse in Matt 24 is about Israel in the Great Tribulation.

It has nothing to do with the church. Israel is being saved from the destruction of Jerusalem Rev 12:6 NIV.

and stop with this pathetically ludicrous strategy of avoiding the O/P topic so that you can remain securely comforted in your false eternal security of OSAS.

We've been adopted into a family...John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 8:23 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Gal 4:4-7 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV, Eph 2:19 NIV, 1 Pet 5:9 NIV

Jesus died for past, present and future sins...Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Rom 8:38-39 ESV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV

We belong to Christ...John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV

We are written in the book of life forever...Luke 10:18-20 NIV, Phil 4:3 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Rev 3:5 NIV, Rev 13:8 NIV, Rev 17:8 NIV, Rev 20:12-15 NIV, Rev 21:27 NIV

There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

Once we believe, we have eternal life...John 3:14-16 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, John 4:13-14 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 5:39-43 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, John 6:54 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, John 17:1-3 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Rom 5:21 NIV, Rom 6:22-23 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 Thess 2:16-17 NIV, 1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV, Tit 1:1-3 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 John 1:1-4 NIV, 1 John 5:9-14 NIV, 1 John 5:20 NIV

We are heirs to Christ...Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV

We have an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade...Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV

We are only justified once...Acts 13:39 NIV, Rom 3:24-28 NIV, Rom 4:2 NIV, Rom 4:25 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:30 NIV, Rom 8:33 ESV, Rom 10:9-10 NIV, 1 Cor 6:11 NIV, Gal 2:16-17 NIV, Gal 3:11 NIV, Gal 3:24 NIV, Gal 5:4 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV

God will lose none of the elect...John 6:35-40 NIV, John 17:9-10 NIV, John 17:12 NIV, Rom 5:5 NIV

Nonbelievers are considered lost, not believers...Matt 18:12-14 NIV, Luke 19:9-10 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV

Overcoming is based on belief, not works...John 16:33 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 John 2:13-14 NIV, 1 John 4:4 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

It's not our works that keep us saved, it's His...Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10-11 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 1 Tim 4:10 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV

We are sealed until the day of redemption...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

The seed of God that is in us is imperishable...Matt 13:20-23 NIV, Luke 8:11 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV

The truth will be in us forever...Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV

We are victorious by our belief in Jesus, not by works...Prov 21:31 NIV, John 16:33 NIV, Rom 8:35 NIV, Rom 8:37 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 2 Cor 2:14 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 2:7 NIV, Rev 2:11 NIV, Rev 3:5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV, Rev 21:7-8 NIV

And to save the best for last, neither death nor life can separate us from the love of God...Rom 8:38-39 NIV, Rev 20:14 NIV.

- ATP

 

[StanJ]

His works not yours just as I said.

It's important to remember that the works mentioned to achieve salvation are NOT the same as the GOOD works/fruit required to demonstrate one IS actually saved and changed. They come from us.

 

[Phoneman777]

But rape is a sin, and God is sinless.


The Olivet Discourse in Matt 24 is about Israel in the Great Tribulation.

It has nothing to do with the church. Israel is being saved from the destruction of Jerusalem Rev 12:6 NIV.


We've been adopted into a family...John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 8:23 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Gal 4:4-7 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV, Eph 2:19 NIV, 1 Pet 5:9 NIV

Jesus died for past, present and future sins...Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Rom 8:38-39 ESV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV

We belong to Christ...John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV

We are written in the book of life forever...Luke 10:18-20 NIV, Phil 4:3 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Rev 3:5 NIV, Rev 13:8 NIV, Rev 17:8 NIV, Rev 20:12-15 NIV, Rev 21:27 NIV

There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

Once we believe, we have eternal life...John 3:14-16 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, John 4:13-14 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 5:39-43 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, John 6:54 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, John 17:1-3 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Rom 5:21 NIV, Rom 6:22-23 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 Thess 2:16-17 NIV, 1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV, Tit 1:1-3 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 John 1:1-4 NIV, 1 John 5:9-14 NIV, 1 John 5:20 NIV

We are heirs to Christ...Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV

We have an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade...Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV

We are only justified once...Acts 13:39 NIV, Rom 3:24-28 NIV, Rom 4:2 NIV, Rom 4:25 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:30 NIV, Rom 8:33 ESV, Rom 10:9-10 NIV, 1 Cor 6:11 NIV, Gal 2:16-17 NIV, Gal 3:11 NIV, Gal 3:24 NIV, Gal 5:4 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV

God will lose none of the elect...John 6:35-40 NIV, John 17:9-10 NIV, John 17:12 NIV, Rom 5:5 NIV

Nonbelievers are considered lost, not believers...Matt 18:12-14 NIV, Luke 19:9-10 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV

Overcoming is based on belief, not works...John 16:33 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 John 2:13-14 NIV, 1 John 4:4 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

It's not our works that keep us saved, it's His...Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10-11 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 1 Tim 4:10 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV

We are sealed until the day of redemption...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

The seed of God that is in us is imperishable...Matt 13:20-23 NIV, Luke 8:11 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV

The truth will be in us forever...Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV

We are victorious by our belief in Jesus, not by works...Prov 21:31 NIV, John 16:33 NIV, Rom 8:35 NIV, Rom 8:37 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 2 Cor 2:14 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 2:7 NIV, Rev 2:11 NIV, Rev 3:5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV, Rev 21:7-8 NIV

And to save the best for last, neither death nor life can separate us from the love of God...Rom 8:38-39 NIV, Rev 20:14 NIV.

- ATP

I'll respond to the only portion of your reply that has to do with this thread.

Your insistence that verse 13 "he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved" refers only to the saints who escaped the sword of Rome in 70 AD is irrelevant, because the fact remains that the previous verse 12 in no uncertain terms says that the agape of "many" would grow cold, imperfect, and dead. Therefore, since the "saints" are known Biblically as having (1) agape for God (2) for others, and (3) agape perfected in them, whether "he that shall endure to the end" refers to the saints of all ages or just the saints who escaped the sword of Rome doesn't change the fact that saints can become ex-saints though the loss of agape, of which the catalyst is iniquity.

Let the record show that you have done nothing to disprove this unavoidable conclusion from Matthew 24:13-13 KJV except post OSAS "proof texts" which are distortions of the promises of God in which you insist that these promises continue to apply to those who walk away from God when the promises of God are "yea and amen in Christ Jesus" alone.

God is not the cosmic rapist that you picture Him by claiming He will force Himself on those who change their minds and desire to walk out of their relationship with Him.

 

[ATP]

I'll respond to the only portion of your reply that has to do with this thread.

I wouldn't expect any more from you Phone.

Let the record show that you have done nothing to disprove this unavoidable conclusion from Matthew 24:13-13 KJV except post OSAS "proof texts" which are distortions of the promises of God in which you insist that these promises continue to apply to those who walk away from God when the promises of God are "yea and amen in Christ Jesus" alone.

Let the record show that I've given you plenty of scripture that proves we are sealed until the day of redemption.

God is not the cosmic rapist that you picture Him by claiming He will force Himself on those who change their minds and desire to walk out of their relationship with Him.

I'm not the one picturing Him as a rapist dude. Rape is a sin, and God is sinless. Which tells me that you do not know the grace of God. Are you born again Phone?

 

[Phoneman777]

I wouldn't expect any more from you Phone.


Let the record show that I've given you plenty of scripture that proves we are sealed until the day of redemption.


I'm not the one picturing Him as a rapist dude. Rape is a sin, and God is sinless. Which tells me that you do not know the grace of God. Are you born again Phone?

No, you haven't offered a single Scripture to refute Jesus' words of Matthew 24:12-13 KJV that the "many" are ex-saints who no longer possess agape for God, for others, and agape perfected in them. You've done nothing but post promises to the saints and insist that they are for ex-saints as well, which is redonkulous, because "all the promises...are yea and amen in Him" and if you're not in Him, you can't claim the promises, bro. It's that simple.

ATP, a rapist forces him/her self on others who are too weak to resist. When you hopeless devotees to OSAS claim that God will force Himself on those who no longer wish to have anything to do with Him, is there any difference in behavior? You need to understand that God is a Gentlemen and HE WILL NEVER FORCE HIMSELF ON ANYONE. That is the motus operandi of Satan and it is from Him that OSAS has come forth, so that weak, vacillating, double-minded Christians who refuse to take hold of Jesus' overcoming power which gives victory over sin can still get in through the pearly gates. It cannot and will not be.