ANALYSIS OF MATTHEW 24:12-13 - WHY IT DISPROVES OSAS

[ATP]

No, you haven't offered a single Scripture to refute Jesus' words of Matthew 24:12-13 KJV that the "many" are ex-saints who no longer possess agape for God, for others, and agape perfected in them.

Your belief in who Jesus Christ is will have to change first Phone.....

We've been adopted into a family...John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 8:23 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Gal 4:4-7 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV, Eph 2:19 NIV, 1 Pet 5:9 NIV

Jesus died for past, present and future sins...Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Rom 8:38-39 ESV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV

We belong to Christ...John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV

We are written in the book of life forever...Luke 10:18-20 NIV, Phil 4:3 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Rev 3:5 NIV, Rev 13:8 NIV, Rev 17:8 NIV, Rev 20:12-15 NIV, Rev 21:27 NIV

There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

Once we believe, we have eternal life...John 3:14-16 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, John 6:54 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Rom 6:22-23 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV, Tit 1:1-3 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, 1 John 5:9-14 NIV

We are heirs to Christ...Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV

We have an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade...Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV

We are only justified once...Acts 13:39 NIV, Rom 3:24-28 NIV, Rom 4:2 NIV, Rom 4:25 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:30 NIV, Rom 8:33 ESV, Rom 10:9-10 NIV, 1 Cor 6:11 NIV, Gal 2:16-17 NIV, Gal 3:11 NIV, Gal 3:24 NIV, Gal 5:4 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV

God will lose none of the elect...John 6:35-40 NIV, John 17:9-10 NIV, John 17:12 NIV, Rom 5:5 NIV

Nonbelievers are considered lost, not believers...Matt 18:12-14 NIV, Luke 19:9-10 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV

Overcoming and being victorious is based on belief, not works...John 16:33 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, Rom 8:35 NIV, Rom 8:37 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 2 Cor 2:14 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 John 2:13-14 NIV, 1 John 4:4 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

It's not our works that keep us saved, it's His...Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10-11 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 1 Tim 4:10 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV

We are sealed until the day of redemption...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

The seed of God that is in us is imperishable...Matt 13:20-23 NIV, Luke 8:11 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV

The truth will be in us forever...Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV

And lastly, neither death nor life can separate us from the love of God...Rom 8:38-39 NIV, Rev 20:14 NIV.

ATP, a rapist forces him/her self on others who are too weak to resist. When you hopeless devotees to OSAS claim that God will force Himself on those who no longer wish to have anything to do with Him, is there any difference in behavior? You need to understand that God is a Gentlemen and HE WILL NEVER FORCE HIMSELF ON ANYONE. That is the motus operandi of Satan and it is from Him that OSAS has come forth, so that weak, vacillating, double-minded Christians who refuse to take hold of Jesus' overcoming power which gives victory over sin can still get in through the pearly gates. It cannot and will not be.

You're saying that God cannot love us unless we love him first 2 Tim 2:13 NIV? So I guess Jesus won't deliver the non believing Jews in the Great Tribulation..

Jer 31:35-36 NIV This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—the Lord Almighty is his name: 36“Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the Lord, “will Israel ever cease being a nation before me.”

How much more will he do for the elect?

John 6:35-40 NIV Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

- ATP

 

[mjrhealth]

If there is no such thing as OSAS PM than how are you going to be saved. If everyone , according to you, is going to fall away than even you cant be saved. Salvation is by faith and the power of God, so are you saying no one has any faith to believe God they are saved??

Rom_8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Saved is a completed, done, finished word.

In all His Love

 

[Phoneman777]

If there is no such thing as OSAS PM than how are you going to be saved. If everyone , according to you, is going to fall away than even you cant be saved. Salvation is by faith and the power of God, so are you saying no one has any faith to believe God they are saved??

Rom_8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
1Co_1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Saved is a completed, done, finished word.

In all His Love

You'll be fine as long as you don't turn your back on God and walk away from Him, like the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV

 

[Phoneman777]

Your belief in who Jesus Christ is will have to change first Phone.....

We've been adopted into a family...John 8:34-36 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Rom 8:23 NIV, Rom 9:4 NIV, Gal 4:4-7 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Eph 1:4-5 NIV, Eph 2:19 NIV, 1 Pet 5:9 NIV

Jesus died for past, present and future sins...Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Rom 8:38-39 ESV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV

We belong to Christ...John 8:34-36 NIV, John 8:44 NIV, Rom 1:6 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 14:8 NIV, 2 Cor 10:7 NIV, Gal 2:12 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 5:24 NIV, Gal 6:10 NIV, Heb 10:38-39 NIV, 1 John 2:19 NIV, 1 John 5:12 NIV

We are written in the book of life forever...Luke 10:18-20 NIV, Phil 4:3 NIV, Heb 12:22-24 NIV, Rev 3:5 NIV, Rev 13:8 NIV, Rev 17:8 NIV, Rev 20:12-15 NIV, Rev 21:27 NIV

There is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus...Mark 16:16 NIV, John 3:18 NIV, John 5:28-29 NIV, John 8:11 NIV, John 16:11 NIV, Rom 3:6-8 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:1-2 NIV, Rom 8:34 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, 2 Thess 2:11-12 NIV, 2 Pet 2:3 NIV, 1 John 3:21 NIV, Jude 1:4-5 NIV

Once we believe, we have eternal life...John 3:14-16 NIV, John 5:24 NIV, John 6:40 NIV, John 6:47 NIV, John 6:54 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, Acts 13:46-48 NIV, Rom 6:22-23 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 1 Tim 1:15-16 NIV, Tit 1:1-3 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, 1 John 5:9-14 NIV

We are heirs to Christ...Acts 3:25 NIV, Rom 4:13-14 NIV, Rom 8:15-17 NIV, Gal 3:29 NIV, Gal 4:7 NIV, Eph 3:6 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV, Heb 6:17 NIV, Heb 11:9 NIV

We have an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade...Dan 12:13 NIV, Matt 25:34 NIV, Acts 20:32 NIV, Gal 3:18 NIV, Gal 4:30-31 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 1:18 NIV, Col 1:12 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, 1 Peter 1:3-5 NIV

We are only justified once...Acts 13:39 NIV, Rom 3:24-28 NIV, Rom 4:2 NIV, Rom 4:25 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Rom 5:16 NIV, Rom 8:30 NIV, Rom 8:33 ESV, Rom 10:9-10 NIV, 1 Cor 6:11 NIV, Gal 2:16-17 NIV, Gal 3:11 NIV, Gal 3:24 NIV, Gal 5:4 NIV, Tit 3:7 NIV

God will lose none of the elect...John 6:35-40 NIV, John 17:9-10 NIV, John 17:12 NIV, Rom 5:5 NIV

Nonbelievers are considered lost, not believers...Matt 18:12-14 NIV, Luke 19:9-10 NIV, John 10:25-30 NIV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV

Overcoming and being victorious is based on belief, not works...John 16:33 NIV, Acts 20:28 NIV, Rom 8:35 NIV, Rom 8:37 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 2 Cor 2:14 NIV, 1 Pet 2:24-25 NIV, 1 John 2:13-14 NIV, 1 John 4:4 NIV, 1 John 5:4-5 NIV, Rev 12:11 NIV

It's not our works that keep us saved, it's His...Isa 64:6 NIV, Matt 6:1 NIV, Matt 23:25-26 NIV, Matt 23:27-28 NIV, Luke 18:19 NIV, John 6:28-29 NIV, Rom 3:9-20 NIV, Rom 3:21-31 NIV, Rom 4:3-11 NIV, Rom 4:22-24 NIV, Rom 5:17-21 NIV, Rom 6:16-20 NIV, Rom 8:9-11 NIV, Rom 9:30-33 NIV, Rom 10:3-4 NIV, Rom 11:5-7 NIV, 1 Cor 1:30 NIV, 1 Cor 3:13-15 NIV, 1 Cor 8:1 NIV, 1 Cor 15:10-11 NIV, 2 Cor 1:9 NIV, 2 Cor 3:5 NIV, 2 Cor 5:15 NIV, Gal 1:6-7 NIV, Gal 2:21 NIV, Gal 3:1-5 NIV, Gal 3:6-7 NIV, Gal 4:9 NIV, Eph 2:7-9 NIV, Phil 1:9-11 NIV, Phil 2:12-13 NIV, Phil 3:8-11 NIV, 1 Tim 4:10 NIV, 2 Tim 1:9 NIV, Tit 3:5 NIV, Rev 15:4 NIV

We are sealed until the day of redemption...John 6:27 NIV, 1 Cor 9:2 NIV, 2 Cor 1:21-22 NIV, Eph 1:13-14 NIV, Eph 4:30 NIV, Rev 9:4 NIV

The seed of God that is in us is imperishable...Matt 13:20-23 NIV, Luke 8:11 NIV, 1 Cor 15:54-57 NIV, 1 Pet 1:23 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV

The truth will be in us forever...Eph 1:13-14 NIV, 2 John 1:2 NIV

And lastly, neither death nor life can separate us from the love of God...Rom 8:38-39 NIV, Rev 20:14 NIV.


You're saying that God cannot love us unless we love him first 2 Tim 2:13 NIV? So I guess Jesus won't deliver the non believing Jews in the Great Tribulation..

Jer 31:35-36 NIV This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar—the Lord Almighty is his name: 36“Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the Lord, “will Israel ever cease being a nation before me.”

How much more will he do for the elect?

John 6:35-40 NIV Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

- ATP

More promise verses that apply to the saints which you insist apply to ex-saints. Tsk tsk, ATP. You refuse to accept that the "many" of verse 12 are not going to heaven because they have no apape anymore, and likely due to your own sinful habits that you refuse to give up, so instead of taking hold of the Holy Spirit for overcoming power, you flip the script of the Bible to include among the saved those who no longer wish to be in a relationship with Jesus. Tsk tsk.

 

[ATP]

More promise verses that apply to the saints which you insist apply to ex-saints. Tsk tsk, ATP. You refuse to accept that the "many" of verse 12 are not going to heaven because they have no apape anymore, and likely due to your own sinful habits that you refuse to give up, so instead of taking hold of the Holy Spirit for overcoming power, you flip the script of the Bible to include among the saved those who no longer wish to be in a relationship with Jesus. Tsk tsk.

Well, according to you God has been raping the Jews for 2,000 years.
You ever hear the term, "belief, action, result"?
In order for your action to change your result, your belief would have to change first Eph 4:30 NIV.

 

[ATP]

Does Matt. 24:13 conflict with free grace salvation and the believer’s security?

“But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved” (Matt 24:13).

The word “saved” must always be understand in its context. Saved from what and by what means? “Saved” is the Greek sozo which may refer to any kind of deliverance and should often be simply translated “delivered.” It can refer to physical deliverance or to some kind of spiritual deliverance, but the context is the determining factor. In point of fact, this passage is speaking about physical deliverance or the survival of those who last through the judgments of the tribulation. Note the comments below from the Bible Knowledge Commentary.

24:9-14 (Mark 13:9-13; Luke 21:12-19). Jesus began His words (Matt. 24:9) with a time word, Then. At the middle point of the seven-year period preceding Christ’s second coming, great distress will begin to be experienced by Israel. The Antichrist, who will have risen to power in the world and will have made a protective treaty with Israel, will break his agreement at that time (Dan. 9:27). He will bring great persecution on Israel (Dan. 7:25) and even establish his own center of worship in the temple in Jerusalem (2 Thes. 2:3-4). This will result in the death of many Jews (Matt. 24:9) and many people departing from the faith. Believing Jews will be betrayed by nonbelievers (v. 10), and many will be deceived by rising false prophets (cf. v. 5; Rev. 13:11-15). Wickedness will increase, causing the love of most people (for the Lord) to grow cold.

Those who are believers and who survive until the end of that period of time will be saved, that is, delivered (Matt. 24:13). This does not refer to a personal self-effort at endurance that results in one’s eternal salvation, but to physical deliverance of those who trust in the Savior during the Tribulation. The endurance, then, is physical survival. While many will be martyred, a few will make to the end. Those who endure through the awful events of the Tribulation will be alive or delivered by Messiah when he returns to earth. This is not a reference to eternal salvation from sin, but rather the deliverance of survivors at the end of the Tribulation as stated in Romans 11:26 where the Deliver will save the nation Israel from its persecutors. Many will not endure to the end in that they will be martyred for their faith as described in Revelation 7:9-17.

https://bible.org/question/does-matt-2413-conflict-free-grace-salvation-and-believer%E2%80%99s-security

 

[epostle1]

“But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved” (Matt 24:13).

The doctrine of "once saved, always saved" was invented by John Calvin during the Reformation. Under this theory, the Protestant believes that one is saved when he accepts Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. This is comforting - after all, who wouldn't want assurance? According to this view, true Christians are the ones who will persevere to the end. For those who accepted Christ during their lives but did not persevere to the end, the doctrine calls these people superficial Christians. So true Christians will go to heaven and superficial Christians will not. Not only is this teaching not Scriptural, it is difficult to accept the teaching on reason.

The only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian did not persevere to the end. Otherwise, the two types of Christians appear to be the same. The superficial Christian has all the earmarks of a true Christian except that he did not persevere. But this necessarily means that the true Christian cannot know that he really is a true Christian either until the end of his life. He, too, won't know whether his conversion was genuine until the end of his life. Therefore, despite all the talk about assurance, he cannot be sure.

This doctrine, therefore, actually gives its adherents less assurance of their salvation. It necessarily imposes upon them uncertainty until the end. The Catholic (and Scriptural) view, however, does give assurance to the believer that he is in fact currently saved (a true Christian), and that, if he perseveres to the end, he will be saved at death. We also know that God will give all the graces necessary for us to be faithful to the end (because of our freewill, the question is always whether we will accept the grace or not). Thus, Catholics know that it is theirs to lose. Protestant Calvinists don't even know whether it is theirs to begin with.

 

[mjrhealth]

You'll be fine as long as you don't turn your back on God and walk away from Him, like the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV

So OSAS is true than for some???

And it has nothing to do with turning ones back , but you have to reject Him, cast Him out like a devil, he cannot deny himself.

 

[ATP]

“But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved” (Matt 24:13).

The doctrine of "once saved, always saved" was invented by John Calvin during the Reformation. Under this theory, the Protestant believes that one is saved when he accepts Jesus as personal Lord and Savior. This is comforting - after all, who wouldn't want assurance? According to this view, true Christians are the ones who will persevere to the end. For those who accepted Christ during their lives but did not persevere to the end, the doctrine calls these people superficial Christians. So true Christians will go to heaven and superficial Christians will not. Not only is this teaching not Scriptural, it is difficult to accept the teaching on reason.

The only distinction between a true Christian and a superficial Christian is that the superficial Christian did not persevere to the end. Otherwise, the two types of Christians appear to be the same. The superficial Christian has all the earmarks of a true Christian except that he did not persevere. But this necessarily means that the true Christian cannot know that he really is a true Christian either until the end of his life. He, too, won't know whether his conversion was genuine until the end of his life. Therefore, despite all the talk about assurance, he cannot be sure.

This doctrine, therefore, actually gives its adherents less assurance of their salvation. It necessarily imposes upon them uncertainty until the end. The Catholic (and Scriptural) view, however, does give assurance to the believer that he is in fact currently saved (a true Christian), and that, if he perseveres to the end, he will be saved at death. We also know that God will give all the graces necessary for us to be faithful to the end (because of our freewill, the question is always whether we will accept the grace or not). Thus, Catholics know that it is theirs to lose. Protestant Calvinists don't even know whether it is theirs to begin with.

Hi kepha. OSAS is directly from the word of God. How does one lose their salvation if Jesus died for all sins..

Rom 4:7-8 NIV “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

Rom 6:10 NIV The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Col 2:13-15 NIV When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us ALL our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Heb 7:23-25 NIV Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Heb 7:27 NIV Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

Heb 9:12 NIV He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

Heb 9:24-28 NIV For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Heb 10:10-12 NIV And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

1 Pet 3:18 NIV For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, according to you God has been raping the Jews for 2,000 years.
You ever hear the term, "belief, action, result"?
In order for your action to change your result, your belief would have to change first Eph 4:30 NIV.

Only if you believe God had anything to do with the current occupation of an area of land that is a fraction of what He originally gave to the Israelites He delivered from Egypt, but since He had nothing to do with it, then He is not guilty of what you claim He is: a cosmic rapist that forces Himself on people who no longer want anything to do with Him.

 

[Phoneman777]

So OSAS is true than for some???

And it has nothing to do with turning ones back , but you have to reject Him, cast Him out like a devil, he cannot deny himself.

There is no OSAS. You either "abide in the Vine" or you will be a branch cast forth into the fire and burned up, plain and simple.

OSAS says a branch can leave the Vine, go hang out at the HollyTree until some sorcerer comes along and cuts him down and carves him into a "magic wand" (hence the opprobrium of all things Satanic:"Hollywood") and STILL somehow receive the life-giving nourishment of the Vine. Uh, no, that branch will BURN while those which "shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13 KJV.

Too bad the ex-saints of Matthew 24:12 KJV didn't have the good sense to strive against iniquity and endure to the end like the brother saint of verse 13.

 

[Phoneman777]

Hi kepha. OSAS is directly from the word of God. How does one lose their salvation if Jesus died for all sins..

Rom 4:7-8 NIV “Blessed are those whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered. 8Blessed is the one whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

Rom 6:10 NIV The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied.

Col 2:13-15 NIV When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us ALL our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Heb 7:23-25 NIV Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Heb 7:27 NIV Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

Heb 9:12 NIV He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.

Heb 9:24-28 NIV For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own. 26 Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27 Just as man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Heb 10:10-12 NIV And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

1 Pet 3:18 NIV For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit.

More promises claimed only by the Vine's true branches which you insist also apply to the unfaithful branches which separate themselves from Him. The Unmerciful Servant found out OSAS is bogus and the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV who lost their agape and are now ex-saints incapable of keeping the Two Great Commandments are just as doomed.

 

[ATP]

Only if you believe God had anything to do with the current occupation of an area of land that is a fraction of what He originally gave to the Israelites He delivered from Egypt, but since He had nothing to do with it, then He is not guilty of what you claim He is: a cosmic rapist that forces Himself on people who no longer want anything to do with Him.

What I'm saying is that God has been delivering the Jews into their land and will continue to deliver them in the Great Tribulation, even though they remain in unbelief. But according to you God cannot love others unless we love Him first. That is false. Jesus died for sinners and not self-righteous robots...2 Tim 2:13 NIV if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

There is no OSAS. You either "abide in the Vine" or you will be a branch cast forth into the fire and burned up, plain and simple.

And why was the branch cast forth into the fire Phone? Because of unbelief. They did not "enter the rest" of salvation. The one who believes enters that rest Heb 4:3 NIV...

Rom 11:20 NIV Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Rom 11:23 NIV And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Heb 3:7-11 NIV So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice, 8do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness, 9where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did. 10That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.’ 11So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

Heb 3:16-19 NIV Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Heb 4:3 NIV Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, "So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.' " And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world.

OSAS says a branch can leave the Vine, go hang out at the HollyTree until some sorcerer comes along and cuts him down and carves him into a "magic wand" (hence the opprobrium of all things Satanic:"Hollywood") and STILL somehow receive the life-giving nourishment of the Vine. Uh, no, that branch will BURN while those which "shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13 KJV.

Too bad the ex-saints of Matthew 24:12 KJV didn't have the good sense to strive against iniquity and endure to the end like the brother saint of verse 13.

The reason you're dragging this thread to nine pages now is because you do not accept the testimony of God and believe, in which you are calling God a liar...

1 John 5:9-14 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

Does Matt. 24:13 conflict with free grace salvation and the believer’s security?

“But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved” (Matt 24:13).

The word “saved” must always be understand in its context. Saved from what and by what means? “Saved” is the Greek sozo which may refer to any kind of deliverance and should often be simply translated “delivered.” It can refer to physical deliverance or to some kind of spiritual deliverance, but the context is the determining factor. In point of fact, this passage is speaking about physical deliverance or the survival of those who last through the judgments of the tribulation. Note the comments below from the Bible Knowledge Commentary.

24:9-14 (Mark 13:9-13; Luke 21:12-19). Jesus began His words (Matt. 24:9) with a time word, Then. At the middle point of the seven-year period preceding Christ’s second coming, great distress will begin to be experienced by Israel. The Antichrist, who will have risen to power in the world and will have made a protective treaty with Israel, will break his agreement at that time (Dan. 9:27). He will bring great persecution on Israel (Dan. 7:25) and even establish his own center of worship in the temple in Jerusalem (2 Thes. 2:3-4). This will result in the death of many Jews (Matt. 24:9) and many people departing from the faith. Believing Jews will be betrayed by nonbelievers (v. 10), and many will be deceived by rising false prophets (cf. v. 5; Rev. 13:11-15). Wickedness will increase, causing the love of most people (for the Lord) to grow cold.

Those who are believers and who survive until the end of that period of time will be saved, that is, delivered (Matt. 24:13). This does not refer to a personal self-effort at endurance that results in one’s eternal salvation, but to physical deliverance of those who trust in the Savior during the Tribulation. The endurance, then, is physical survival. While many will be martyred, a few will make to the end. Those who endure through the awful events of the Tribulation will be alive or delivered by Messiah when he returns to earth. This is not a reference to eternal salvation from sin, but rather the deliverance of survivors at the end of the Tribulation as stated in Romans 11:26 where the Deliver will save the nation Israel from its persecutors. Many will not endure to the end in that they will be martyred for their faith as described in Revelation 7:9-17.

https://bible.org/question/does-matt-2413-conflict-free-grace-salvation-and-believer%E2%80%99s-security

Praying ~

 

[mjrhealth]

There is no OSAS. You either "abide in the Vine" or you will be a branch cast forth into the fire and burned up, plain and simple.

So than you cant be saved as you can only be saved once. is this correct, well it appears to be according to your doctrine?? And than if you are save well than it was only once was it not and was it not for ever.??

And yes there are those who will quit, i have questioned God on that one often enough, but for those who "are " saved it is once and forever, because they have faith to believe in the works of Christ and the power of God unto salvation which so many christians deny. I find it so humiliating for God to see so many so called christians questioning his Grace , mercy and Power, we make him out to be lesser than man, as if we have power over Him and not Him over us.

In all his love

 

[Phoneman777]

So than you cant be saved as you can only be saved once. is this correct, well it appears to be according to your doctrine?? And than if you are save well than it was only once was it not and was it not for ever.??

And yes there are those who will quit, i have questioned God on that one often enough, but for those who "are " saved it is once and forever, because they have faith to believe in the works of Christ and the power of God unto salvation which so many christians deny. I find it so humiliating for God to see so many so called christians questioning his Grace , mercy and Power, we make him out to be lesser than man, as if we have power over Him and not Him over us.

In all his love

Your idea of what "saved" means is at the heart of the problem. You and your fellow OSAS believers have failed to understand that the original Greek actually speaks of salvation as a "future perfect tense" salvation which is completely opposite to what you and the rest of the ignorant Christian world teaches: "past tense" salvation.

If you want to be Biblical, then say, "I am being saved". If you want to continue in ignorance, they continue to parrot the un-Biblical lie, "I am saved". You and I are "being saved" as we remain connected to Jesus and if we decide to go the way of the "many" of Matthew 24;12 KJV we are no longer "being saved". Don't take my word for it, look up the Greek for yourself. And if the idea that an unbroken relationship with Jesus is the only way to heaven scares you, it needn't do so. Just remember the promises of Jesus: "Resist the devil and he will flee. Draw nigh unto the Lord and He will draw nigh unto you." Jesus is both your Judge and your Advocate and when your Advocate is your Judge, how can you lose? Therefore, you don't need some silly OSAS idea in which to place your trust. As the old hymn goes: "Trust and obey, for there's no other way, to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey."

 

[Phoneman777]

What I'm saying is that God has been delivering the Jews into their land and will continue to deliver them in the Great Tribulation, even though they remain in unbelief. But according to you God cannot love others unless we love Him first. That is false. Jesus died for sinners and not self-righteous robots...2 Tim 2:13 NIV if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself.


And why was the branch cast forth into the fire Phone? Because of unbelief. They did not "enter the rest" of salvation. The one who believes enters that rest Heb 4:3 NIV...

Rom 11:20 NIV Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Rom 11:23 NIV And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Heb 3:7-11 NIV So, as the Holy Spirit says: “Today, if you hear his voice, 8do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion, during the time of testing in the wilderness, 9where your ancestors tested and tried me, though for forty years they saw what I did. 10That is why I was angry with that generation; I said, ‘Their hearts are always going astray, and they have not known my ways.’ 11So I declared on oath in my anger, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’ ”

Heb 3:16-19 NIV Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies perished in the wilderness? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

Heb 4:3 NIV Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said, "So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.' " And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world.


The reason you're dragging this thread to nine pages now is because you do not accept the testimony of God and believe, in which you are calling God a liar...

1 John 5:9-14 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

Does Matt. 24:13 conflict with free grace salvation and the believer’s security?

“But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved” (Matt 24:13).

The word “saved” must always be understand in its context. Saved from what and by what means? “Saved” is the Greek sozo which may refer to any kind of deliverance and should often be simply translated “delivered.” It can refer to physical deliverance or to some kind of spiritual deliverance, but the context is the determining factor. In point of fact, this passage is speaking about physical deliverance or the survival of those who last through the judgments of the tribulation. Note the comments below from the Bible Knowledge Commentary.

24:9-14 (Mark 13:9-13; Luke 21:12-19). Jesus began His words (Matt. 24:9) with a time word, Then. At the middle point of the seven-year period preceding Christ’s second coming, great distress will begin to be experienced by Israel. The Antichrist, who will have risen to power in the world and will have made a protective treaty with Israel, will break his agreement at that time (Dan. 9:27). He will bring great persecution on Israel (Dan. 7:25) and even establish his own center of worship in the temple in Jerusalem (2 Thes. 2:3-4). This will result in the death of many Jews (Matt. 24:9) and many people departing from the faith. Believing Jews will be betrayed by nonbelievers (v. 10), and many will be deceived by rising false prophets (cf. v. 5; Rev. 13:11-15). Wickedness will increase, causing the love of most people (for the Lord) to grow cold.

Those who are believers and who survive until the end of that period of time will be saved, that is, delivered (Matt. 24:13). This does not refer to a personal self-effort at endurance that results in one’s eternal salvation, but to physical deliverance of those who trust in the Savior during the Tribulation. The endurance, then, is physical survival. While many will be martyred, a few will make to the end. Those who endure through the awful events of the Tribulation will be alive or delivered by Messiah when he returns to earth. This is not a reference to eternal salvation from sin, but rather the deliverance of survivors at the end of the Tribulation as stated in Romans 11:26 where the Deliver will save the nation Israel from its persecutors. Many will not endure to the end in that they will be martyred for their faith as described in Revelation 7:9-17.

https://bible.org/question/does-matt-2413-conflict-free-grace-salvation-and-believer%E2%80%99s-security

Praying ~

No, it is you who is dragging this thread out b/c of your refusal to admit that OSAS does NOT stand the test of Matthew 24:12 KJV because the "many" are LOST.

Only a fool will insist on arguing that anyone other than the saints are heaven bound. Those "many" are NOT saints, but "ex-saints" b/c they no longer possess agape for God, for others, and agape perfected in them, which is EXACTLY the Biblical description of a saint. Your insistence that God is a "cosmic rapist" that will force Himself on those who no longer want anything to do with Him is a feeble attempt to be lifted up out of the pit of sin to glory by ropes of sand. Give it up, bro. If OSAS believers want to go to heaven, they must get connected and remain connected to the Vine and put away sin by His grace and power.

 

[ATP]

Your idea of what "saved" means is at the heart of the problem. You and your fellow OSAS believers have failed to understand that the original Greek actually speaks of salvation as a "future perfect tense" salvation which is completely opposite to what you and the rest of the ignorant Christian world teaches: "past tense" salvation.

If you want to be Biblical, then say, "I am being saved". If you want to continue in ignorance, they continue to parrot the un-Biblical lie, "I am saved". You and I are "being saved" as we remain connected to Jesus and if we decide to go the way of the "many" of Matthew 24;12 KJV we are no longer "being saved". Don't take my word for it, look up the Greek for yourself. And if the idea that an unbroken relationship with Jesus is the only way to heaven scares you, it needn't do so. Just remember the promises of Jesus: "Resist the devil and he will flee. Draw nigh unto the Lord and He will draw nigh unto you." Jesus is both your Judge and your Advocate and when your Advocate is your Judge, how can you lose? Therefore, you don't need some silly OSAS idea in which to place your trust. As the old hymn goes: "Trust and obey, for there's no other way, to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey."

No, you have that backwards. You believe you can save yourself, but in reality God is what saves you in the end.

1 Cor 1:8-9 NIV He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

Rom 7:21-25 NIV So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Phil 1:3-6 NIV I thank my God every time I remember you. 4In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Heb 7:23-25 NIV Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Jude 1:24-25 NIV To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

No, it is you who is dragging this thread out b/c of your refusal to admit that OSAS does NOT stand the test of Matthew 24:12 KJV because the "many" are LOST.

Only a fool will insist on arguing that anyone other than the saints are heaven bound. Those "many" are NOT saints, but "ex-saints" b/c they no longer possess agape for God, for others, and agape perfected in them, which is EXACTLY the Biblical description of a saint. Your insistence that God is a "cosmic rapist" that will force Himself on those who no longer want anything to do with Him is a feeble attempt to be lifted up out of the pit of sin to glory by ropes of sand. Give it up, bro. If OSAS believers want to go to heaven, they must get connected and remain connected to the Vine and put away sin by His grace and power.

Matt 24:12-13 is about end times dude. You're taking this passage and the entire thread out of context.

Does Matt. 24:13 conflict with free grace salvation and the believer’s security?

“But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved” (Matt 24:13).

The word “saved” must always be understand in its context. Saved from what and by what means? “Saved” is the Greek sozo which may refer to any kind of deliverance and should often be simply translated “delivered.” It can refer to physical deliverance or to some kind of spiritual deliverance, but the context is the determining factor. In point of fact, this passage is speaking about physical deliverance or the survival of those who last through the judgments of the tribulation. Note the comments below from the Bible Knowledge Commentary.

24:9-14 (Mark 13:9-13; Luke 21:12-19). Jesus began His words (Matt. 24:9) with a time word, Then. At the middle point of the seven-year period preceding Christ’s second coming, great distress will begin to be experienced by Israel. The Antichrist, who will have risen to power in the world and will have made a protective treaty with Israel, will break his agreement at that time (Dan. 9:27). He will bring great persecution on Israel (Dan. 7:25) and even establish his own center of worship in the temple in Jerusalem (2 Thes. 2:3-4). This will result in the death of many Jews (Matt. 24:9) and many people departing from the faith. Believing Jews will be betrayed by nonbelievers (v. 10), and many will be deceived by rising false prophets (cf. v. 5; Rev. 13:11-15). Wickedness will increase, causing the love of most people (for the Lord) to grow cold.

Those who are believers and who survive until the end of that period of time will be saved, that is, delivered (Matt. 24:13). This does not refer to a personal self-effort at endurance that results in one’s eternal salvation, but to physical deliverance of those who trust in the Savior during the Tribulation. The endurance, then, is physical survival. While many will be martyred, a few will make to the end. Those who endure through the awful events of the Tribulation will be alive or delivered by Messiah when he returns to earth. This is not a reference to eternal salvation from sin, but rather the deliverance of survivors at the end of the Tribulation as stated in Romans 11:26 where the Deliver will save the nation Israel from its persecutors. Many will not endure to the end in that they will be martyred for their faith as described in Revelation 7:9-17.

https://bible.org/question/does-matt-2413-conflict-free-grace-salvation-and-believer%E2%80%99s-security

 

[mjrhealth]

"future perfect tense"

Thats the whole point, God has seeing it, if He has seeing it than it is done. God sees the future you dwell in the now, if God says you are saved, dont you believe Him?. Either you are saved or you are not, and if you dont believe you are than why are you here?? Why do you insist on laying stumbling blocks before those who do believe God. You know the "Faith" part requires one to believe.

Trust and obey, for there's no other way, to be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey."

Yes Faith thats how we believe. Still struggling to find christians that believe God, never thought it would be so difficult yet Christ said it would be.


In all His Love

 

[FHII]

Going back to the OP, I am not convinced that these 2 verses refute OSAS much less predestination (which I prefer to acknowledge over OSAS).

First off, the iniquity spoken of in matt 24 isn't general sin (which pethaps I mistakingly assume thats what phoneman is speaking of). There were dpecific things spoken of prior to verse 12. The biggest one is false teaching. So when God said there would be famine in the land not from the lack of food, but for the Word of God, it fits.

Second all this talk of agape love is a moot point because in many it died. Well, many are called but few are chosen.

I realize that verse is found in a parable earlier. No doubt sone will say its out of context because it was a slightly different situation, but its not out of context.

Realize that part of the iniquity us false teaching, but teaching nonetheless. No doubt they were called. After all, they can't wax cold if they never were warm.

But there are those that will endure and be saved. These are God's elect and according to the parallel scriptures in Mark, the chosen.

If you need proof that those that endure are the elect, please move on a few verses down in matt 24. Jesus is still on the same topic. Those that endure are the elect. They would br deceived by the false teaching, but they won't - it isn't possible for them to be deceived. Can't be done! They endure.

One of the possible reasons is that God is going to shorten those times for their (the elect's) sake. That doesn't mean necessarily that they will be deceived if God lets it go on. Perhaps God is just being merciful to those who won't ever be deceived.

Or maybe God cuts it short before they no longer can endure. Either way... God has his chosen.

In short: yes some can have agape love. That doesn't mean they are the chosen. And I trust everyone knows who does the choosing. And He who choses said he did it before the foundations of the world.

 

[Phoneman777]

No, you have that backwards. You believe you can save yourself, but in reality God is what saves you in the end.

1 Cor 1:8-9 NIV He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God, who has called you into fellowship with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, is faithful.

Rom 7:21-25 NIV So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

Phil 1:3-6 NIV I thank my God every time I remember you. 4In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Heb 7:23-25 NIV Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Jude 1:24-25 NIV To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.


Matt 24:12-13 is about end times dude. You're taking this passage and the entire thread out of context.

Does Matt. 24:13 conflict with free grace salvation and the believer’s security?

“But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved” (Matt 24:13).

The word “saved” must always be understand in its context. Saved from what and by what means? “Saved” is the Greek sozo which may refer to any kind of deliverance and should often be simply translated “delivered.” It can refer to physical deliverance or to some kind of spiritual deliverance, but the context is the determining factor. In point of fact, this passage is speaking about physical deliverance or the survival of those who last through the judgments of the tribulation. Note the comments below from the Bible Knowledge Commentary.

24:9-14 (Mark 13:9-13; Luke 21:12-19). Jesus began His words (Matt. 24:9) with a time word, Then. At the middle point of the seven-year period preceding Christ’s second coming, great distress will begin to be experienced by Israel. The Antichrist, who will have risen to power in the world and will have made a protective treaty with Israel, will break his agreement at that time (Dan. 9:27). He will bring great persecution on Israel (Dan. 7:25) and even establish his own center of worship in the temple in Jerusalem (2 Thes. 2:3-4). This will result in the death of many Jews (Matt. 24:9) and many people departing from the faith. Believing Jews will be betrayed by nonbelievers (v. 10), and many will be deceived by rising false prophets (cf. v. 5; Rev. 13:11-15). Wickedness will increase, causing the love of most people (for the Lord) to grow cold.

Those who are believers and who survive until the end of that period of time will be saved, that is, delivered (Matt. 24:13). This does not refer to a personal self-effort at endurance that results in one’s eternal salvation, but to physical deliverance of those who trust in the Savior during the Tribulation. The endurance, then, is physical survival. While many will be martyred, a few will make to the end. Those who endure through the awful events of the Tribulation will be alive or delivered by Messiah when he returns to earth. This is not a reference to eternal salvation from sin, but rather the deliverance of survivors at the end of the Tribulation as stated in Romans 11:26 where the Deliver will save the nation Israel from its persecutors. Many will not endure to the end in that they will be martyred for their faith as described in Revelation 7:9-17.

https://bible.org/question/does-matt-2413-conflict-free-grace-salvation-and-believer%E2%80%99s-security

No, you are refusing the context of the verse because of the unavoidable conclusion that must be drawn from it. And, no, I don't believe we are saved by any other means than grace through faith, but you fail to understand that we are "being saved" which is far different than the OSAS "saved already" stance. It is why so many are taken in by it.