ANALYSIS OF MATTHEW 24:12-13 - WHY IT DISPROVES OSAS

[ATP]

This is EXACTLY what you teach. You teach salvation is unconditional as long as we "believe" that Jesus died and rose again, as long as we "believe" sin is wrong. Brother, if all you do is "believe" you've got nothing on the devils, for they "believe" yet tremble.

We all believe that Jesus is our lone Savior from sin, but OSAS does not believe or accept Him as our Lord to be OBEYED - that's optional for OSAS, else you would quit warring against His commandments, including the Sabbath. Either accept Him as both or neither.

No, that is not what OSAS teaches. OSAS teaches that saints persevere and no longer continue to sin. Believers persevere because of progressive sanctification.

You not believing me and my testimony is not my problem. It's yours. Instead of believing me, you accuse me of things I am not a part of. The accuser comes from the devil. The devil is stupid because he knows he already lost. Similar to how the devil thinks God is done with Israel. - ATP

Rom 6:14 NIV For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

1 John 3:6 NIV No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 3:9 NIV No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1 John 5:18 NIV We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

1 John 5:9-14 NIV / Psa 21:4 NIV We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

 

[mjrhealth]

We all believe that Jesus is our lone Savior from sin, but OSAS does not believe or accept Him as our Lord to be OBEYED - that's optional for OSAS, else you would quit warring against His commandments, including the Sabbath. Either accept Him as both or neither.

But they do, and that is what annoys you, is that they actually take God at His word and believe Him. If God says you are saved, than you are, yet you dont believe Him, You and so many have this crazy notion that you can all actually pay the price that Jesus did, or that what He did was not enough so you have to add to it. God doesnt half do things, when He says it is finished, he means it, there are no service packs to God's work, it is complete.

 

[Phoneman777]

But they do, and that is what annoys you, is that they actually take God at His word and believe Him. If God says you are saved, than you are, yet you dont believe Him, You and so many have this crazy notion that you can all actually pay the price that Jesus did, or that what He did was not enough so you have to add to it. God doesnt half do things, when He says it is finished, he means it, there are no service packs to God's work, it is complete.

God never says those who continue in sin are saved.

"If we sin willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for sin, but a certain looking for of judgment." OSAS people are the ones annoyed by the truth, so they have manufactured a demonic deception that claims the dead faith of OSAS may obtain that which only living faith - faith which seats Christ on the heart and allows Him to produce righteous works in the life of the surrendered saint - may obtain: eternal life.

 

[Phoneman777]

No, that is not what OSAS teaches.

Don't try to weasel your way around this. OSAS fully teaches that obedience doesn't matter, all that matters is that you "believe" whatever that means, and magically you may engage in exactly the same sinful acts as a non-believer while enjoying perpetual absolution of them while the non-believer stores up to himself wrath in the day of Judgment. In essence, OSAS teaches that though a believer and a non-believer engage in the rape of the same woman, the non-believer is guilty in the sight of God while the believer is "covered by grace" and reckoned innocent in His sight - a belief system that is the height of stupidity.

My worldly dad and his OSAS Baptist brother in law were drinking liquor and shooting pool in a bar and he leaned over to my dad and said, "If we both died right now, I'd go to heaven and you'd go to hell." Even my worldly dad had sense enough to respond to him how utterly stupid and unjust that belief was, but we have supposedly "spiritually enlightened" folks in the church who can't see what a worldly sinner could see. LOL

 

[ATP]

God never says those who continue in sin are saved.

Those who continue to sin were never saved to begin with. They believe for a while...

Luke 8:13 NIV Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they (aphistémi) fall away.

"If we sin willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for sin, but a certain looking for of judgment."

There are two main reasons why the Hebrew warnings exist..

The Bible’s warnings against apostasy exist because there are two types of religious people: believers and unbelievers. In any church there are those who truly know Christ and those who are going through the motions. Wearing the label “Christian” does not guarantee a change of heart. It is possible to hear the Word, and even agree with its truth, without taking it to heart. It is possible to attend church, serve in a ministry, and call yourself a Christian—and still be unsaved (Matthew 7:21–23). As the prophet said, “These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me” (Isaiah 29:13; cf. Mark 7:6).

The second purpose for the Bible’s warnings against apostasy is to equip the church to identify apostates. They can be known by their rejection of Christ, acceptance of heresy, and carnal nature (2 Peter 2:1–3).

The biblical warnings against apostasy, therefore, are warnings to those who are under the umbrella of “faith” without ever having truly exercised faith. Scriptures such as Hebrews 6:4–6 and Hebrews 10:26–29 are warnings to “pretend” believers that they need to examine themselves before it’s too late. Matthew 7:22–23 indicates that “pretend believers” whom the Lord rejects on Judgment Day are rejected not because they “lost faith” but because the Lord never knew them. They never had a relationship with Him.

There are many people who love religion for religion’s sake and are willing to identify themselves with Jesus and the church. Who wouldn’t want eternal life and blessing? However, Jesus warns us to “count the cost” of discipleship (Luke 9:23–26; 14:25–33). True believers have counted the cost and made the commitment; apostates fail to do so. Apostates had a profession of faith at one time but not the possession of faith. Their mouths spoke something other than what their hearts believed. Apostasy is not loss of salvation but evidence of past pretension.

http://www.gotquestions.org/apostasy-salvation.html

"If we sin willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth, there is no more sacrifice for sin, but a certain looking for of judgment."

There are many contradictions in your false doctrine...

As believers in Christ we should be aware of two covenants being spoken of in the Book of Hebrews, chapters 7, 8, 9, 10, 12 and 13. By using proper hermeneutics we can put into detail what verse is describing what covenant, old or new. Let's dive right in, shall we...

Heb 8:6 NIV But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

HEB 6:1-6, HEB 10:29-31 CONTRADICTIONS WITH NON-OSAS

Heb 6:1 NIV, Heb 6:6 NIV Contradiction - "Repentance that leads to death" is referring to the sacrifices of animals in the OT.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible - repentance from dead works, does not intend evangelical repentance, the doctrine of which is to be ministerially laid, and the grace itself to be exercised over and over again; but a repentance which arose from, and was signified by the sacrifices of slain beasts; for by them the Jews were taught the doctrine of repentance, as well as remission of sin; and in and over them did they confess their iniquities; yea, every beast that was slain for sacrifice carried in it a conviction of sin, an acknowledgment of guilt; and it was tacitly owning, that they, for whom the creature was slain, deserved to be treated as that was, and die as that did. So the Jews (f) say,

"when a man sacrifices a beast, he thinks in his own heart, I am rather a beast than this; for I am he that hath sinned, and for the sin which I have committed I bring this; and it is more fitting that the man should be sacrificed rather than the beast; and so it appears that, , "by the means of his offering he repents".''

But now, under the Gospel dispensation, believing Jews, as these were to whom the apostle writes, were not to learn the doctrine of repentance from slain beasts, or to signify it in this way; since repentance and remission of sins were preached most clearly to them in the name of Christ: nor were they to lay again another part of this foundation, or a second article of the Jewish creed,

Heb 6:4-5 NIV Contradiction - http://www.rj-anders...cs/hebrews.html

Heb 6:6 NIV Contradiction - They fell away because they had no root of salvation, which is Jesus Christ. Either you are born again or you are not...Matt 13:20-23 NIV, Rom 11:18 NIV, Rev 22:16 NIV

Heb 6:6 NIV Contradiction - It's impossible to crucify the Son of God all over again when Jesus already paid the sin debt as a one time sacrifice for sins. Once you come to faith and believe in the resurrection you are saved until redemption...Psalm 130:3-4 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, 2 Cor 5:18-20 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-14 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV

Heb 10:26 NIV Contradiction - "Deliberately keep on sinning" is describing nonbelievers, not believers...Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 John 3:6 NIV, 1 John 3:9 NIV, 1 John 5:18 NIV

Heb 10:26 NIV Contradiction - Nonbelievers are known to have the knowledge of God, the knowledge of truth, or knowing God but not accepting His salvation. Apostates are not born again christians...Rom 1:18 NIV, Rom 1:25 NIV, Rom 1:28 NIV, 1 Tim 6:20 NIV, 2 Pet 2:20 NIV

Heb 10:26 NIV Contradiction - It's impossible for there to be no sacrifice for sins left when Jesus already paid the sin debt as a one time sacrifice for sins. Once you come to faith and believe in the resurrection you are saved until redemption...Psalm 130:3-4 NIV, Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, 1 Cor 15:12-19 NIV, 2 Cor 5:18-20 NIV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-14 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV

Heb 10:27 NIV Contradiction - This passage is referring to the wrath of God, but believers are no longer appointed to wrath...Job 21:30 NIV, Isa 26:20 NIV, Dan 12:1-2 NIV, Matt 3:12 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9 NIV

Heb 10:27 NIV Contradiction - This passage says God's wrath will consume His enemies, but believers are no longer enemies of God...Nahum 1:2 ESV, Rom 5:10-11 NIV, Rom 11:28 NIV, Rom 12:19-20 NIV, Heb 10:27 NIV

Heb 10:28 NIV Contradiction - Believers are no longer under the law but under grace, which is the "new covenant"...Rom 6:14 NIV, 1 Cor 11:25 NIV, 2 Cor 3:6 NIV, Heb 8:6 NIV, Heb 8:13 NIV, Heb 9:15 NIV, Heb 12:24 NIV

Heb 10:29 NIV Contradiction - This passage is referring to OT sanctification through the blood of animals. The Mosaic covenant was ratified with blood; and with that blood both the tabernacle with all its vessels, and the people who worshiped before it were sanctified and set apart as holy to the Lord. The covenant of grace however is ratified with the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Moses took from the offerings half of the blood and put it in bowls and the other half he sprinkled on the altar. He read to the people the book of the covenant and once again they all responded, "All that the LORD has said we will do" (Exod 24:7 NIV). Hearing once more their pledge of obedience to the Lord, Moses sprinkled the people with the blood, saying, ‘"This is the blood of the covenant which the LORD has made with you according to all these words"’ (Exod 24:8 NIV). This was a very solemn moment in their national history, for with this sprinkling of the blood and their promise to be obedient, the covenant was ratified and they were sanctified as the people of God (Heb 9:19-20 NIV, Heb 10:29 NIV). As His people, they would be governed by Him according to the commandments and statutes that He had given to them.

Heb 10:30-31 NIV Contradiction - These passages are referring to unbelieving Israel for whom He will judge Ezek 18:30 NIV. They are also referring to the wrath of God, but believers are no longer appointed to wrath...Job 21:30 NIV, Isa 26:20 NIV, Dan 12:1-2 NIV, Matt 3:12 NIV, John 3:36 NIV, Rom 5:9 NIV, Eph 2:3 NIV, 1 Thess 1:10 NIV, 1 Thess 5:9 NIV

OSAS people are the ones annoyed by the truth

Why would we be annoyed with having eternal life?

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

1 Pet 1:23 NIV / Psalm 106:1 NIV For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:

so they have manufactured a demonic deception that claims the dead faith of OSAS may obtain that which only living faith - faith which seats Christ on the heart and allows Him to produce righteous works in the life of the surrendered saint - may obtain: eternal life.

There you go again accusing saints of things they do not believe in. :huh:

Ex 4:21 NIV The Lord said to Moses, “When you return to Egypt, see that you perform before Pharaoh all the wonders I have given you the power to do. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go.

Ex 7:3-4 NIV But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt, 4he will not listen to you.

Ex 7:13 NIV Yet Pharaoh's heart became hard and he would not listen to them, just as the LORD had said.

Ex 7:22 NIV But the Egyptian magicians did the same things by their secret arts, and Pharaoh's heart became hard; he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said.

Ex 8:15 NIV But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said.

Ex 8:19 NIV the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hard and he would not listen, just as the LORD had said.

Ex 10:20 NIV But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he would not let the Israelites go.

Ex 10:27 NIV But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart, and he was not willing to let them go.

OSAS fully teaches that obedience doesn't matter,

Obedience does matter Phone. What do you think progressive sanctification is........

John 10:25-30 NIV Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

- ATP

 

[ATP]

all that matters is that you "believe" whatever that means

Through progressive sanctification we are believing in the finished work of the cross. What did Jesus do on the cross Phone?

John 6:28-29 NIV Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?" 29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Rom 4:22-24 NIV This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness." 23 The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Rom 10:3-4 NIV Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

1 Cor 15:10-11 NIV But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

Gal 3:5 NIV Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

- ATP

 

[mjrhealth]

God never says those who continue in sin are saved.

PM explain to me how Christ can sin?? If you are in Him and wearing His righteousness, how can you sin unless Christs righteousness is sin, but then if you are not in Him, than yes you are a sinner and yes the law is yours to keep and follow for as it says over and over, teh law is for sinners. You dont get it, you wont get it, you do not seek teh truth, you will not take things to Christ, you insist on leaning on your own understanding. THose who are in Christ are "FREE", what does it say " for those whom He sets free are free indeed. How can you claim to be in Christ when you insist that you are not free from Sin. Our life is in Christ and Him alone. You will not find it any where else.

 

[r4hnsn]

As the OP points out, those whose love has grown cold can only be believers, and the condition that we keep our love until either Christ returns, or death relieves us of our duty, is proof that those who don't will not gain heaven.

The Pharisee's were believers, but belief that does not produce repentance and holiness is worthless and futile. Faith produces works( efforts) leading to life, those who remain unregenerate cannot be Christ's. The gospel is calculated to produce godly repentance and if by and large it didn't, it would be a failure of God to ensure justice.

 

[lforrest]

If you associate works with justice your doing it wrong.

Our faith should lead to good works, but these works themselves are at most a litmus test for what God has done for you.

 

[Phoneman777]

PM explain to me how Christ can sin?? If you are in Him and wearing His righteousness, how can you sin unless Christs righteousness is sin, but then if you are not in Him, than yes you are a sinner and yes the law is yours to keep and follow for as it says over and over, teh law is for sinners. You dont get it, you wont get it, you do not seek teh truth, you will not take things to Christ, you insist on leaning on your own understanding. THose who are in Christ are "FREE", what does it say " for those whom He sets free are free indeed. How can you claim to be in Christ when you insist that you are not free from Sin. Our life is in Christ and Him alone. You will not find it any where else.

The idea that "God's grace doesn't change me, just God's opinion of me" is simply not correct. God know who is striving against sin and who freely indulges it with a clear conscience. Grace is always proffered to the former, but never the latter.

"Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin" Hebrews 12:4 KJV

The most appealing aspect of OSAS is that we don't have to strive against sin and can still be saved.

 

[Phoneman777]

If you associate works with justice your doing it wrong.

Our faith should lead to good works, but these works themselves are at most a litmus test for what God has done for you.

Well, the Bible associates works with justice:
"Hereby we do know that we know Him if we keep His commandments. He that sayeth, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:3-4 KJV

"Behold I come quickly and My reward is with Me to give to every man according as his works shall be...Blesses are they that do His commandments that they may have a right to the Tree of Life." Revelation 22:12-14 KJV

Suffice it to say, "We are saved by grace, not of works, but we are judged by our works which show whether we have been saved by grace."

 

[ATP]

As the OP points out, those whose love has grown cold can only be believers, and the condition that we keep our love until either Christ returns, or death relieves us of our duty, is proof that those who don't will not gain heaven.

Does Matt. 24:13 conflict with free grace salvation and the believer’s security?

“But the one who endures to the end, he shall be saved” (Matt 24:13).

The word “saved” must always be understand in its context. Saved from what and by what means? “Saved” is the Greek sozo which may refer to any kind of deliverance and should often be simply translated “delivered.” It can refer to physical deliverance or to some kind of spiritual deliverance, but the context is the determining factor. In point of fact, this passage is speaking about physical deliverance or the survival of those who last through the judgments of the tribulation. Note the comments below from the Bible Knowledge Commentary.

24:9-14 (Mark 13:9-13; Luke 21:12-19). Jesus began His words (Matt. 24:9) with a time word, Then. At the middle point of the seven-year period preceding Christ’s second coming, great distress will begin to be experienced by Israel. The Antichrist, who will have risen to power in the world and will have made a protective treaty with Israel, will break his agreement at that time (Dan. 9:27). He will bring great persecution on Israel (Dan. 7:25) and even establish his own center of worship in the temple in Jerusalem (2 Thes. 2:3-4). This will result in the death of many Jews (Matt. 24:9) and many people departing from the faith. Believing Jews will be betrayed by nonbelievers (v. 10), and many will be deceived by rising false prophets (cf. v. 5; Rev. 13:11-15). Wickedness will increase, causing the love of most people (for the Lord) to grow cold.

Those who are believers and who survive until the end of that period of time will be saved, that is, delivered (Matt. 24:13). This does not refer to a personal self-effort at endurance that results in one’s eternal salvation, but to physical deliverance of those who trust in the Savior during the Tribulation. The endurance, then, is physical survival. While many will be martyred, a few will make to the end. Those who endure through the awful events of the Tribulation will be alive or delivered by Messiah when he returns to earth. This is not a reference to eternal salvation from sin, but rather the deliverance of survivors at the end of the Tribulation as stated in Romans 11:26 where the Deliver will save the nation Israel from its persecutors. Many will not endure to the end in that they will be martyred for their faith as described in Revelation 7:9-17.

https://bible.org/question/does-matt-2413-conflict-free-grace-salvation-and-believer%E2%80%99s-security

The idea that "God's grace doesn't change me, just God's opinion of me" is simply not correct. God know who is striving against sin and who freely indulges it with a clear conscience. Grace is always proffered to the former, but never the latter.

"Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin" Hebrews 12:4 KJV

The most appealing aspect of OSAS is that we don't have to strive against sin and can still be saved.

Like mjr said, you don't get it and you will never get it. You will continue to accuse saints of beliefs they don't abide by. How can you claim to be in Christ when you insist that you are not free from sin. A Son belongs to the family forever Phone..........

Gal 2:4 NIV [This matter arose] because some false brothers had infiltrated our ranks to spy on the freedom we have in Christ Jesus and to make us slaves.

John 8:34-36 NIV Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Rom 6:18-20 NIV You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19 I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness.

Gal 4:30-31 NIV But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." 31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

Eph 3:12 NIV In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence.

Heb 9:15 NIV For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

Rev 1:5 NIV and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,

 

[Phoneman777]

As the OP points out, those whose love has grown cold can only be believers, and the condition that we keep our love until either Christ returns, or death relieves us of our duty, is proof that those who don't will not gain heaven.

The Pharisee's were believers, but belief that does not produce repentance and holiness is worthless and futile. Faith produces works( efforts) leading to life, those who remain unregenerate cannot be Christ's. The gospel is calculated to produce godly repentance and if by and large it didn't, it would be a failure of God to ensure justice.

OSAS is essentially salvation on man's terms rather than God's terms.

OSAS says, "I will be saved by grace through dead faith which either does or does not produce obedience because it matters not" while God says "I will save you by grace through living faith which allows My Son to be seated on the throne of your heart as He lives out His obedient life through you."

 

[ATP]

OSAS is essentially salvation on man's terms rather than God's terms.

OSAS says, "I will be saved by grace through dead faith which either does or does not produce obedience because it matters not" while God says "I will save you by grace through living faith which allows My Son to be seated on the throne of your heart as He lives out His obedient life through you."

You will continue to accuse saints of beliefs they don't abide by. How can you claim to be in Christ when you insist that you are not free from sin.

 

[Phoneman777]

ATP, when someone asks me if the decision of a saved person who rejects Jesus and returns permanently to serve sin results in the loss of eternal life through rejection of it, I say most definitely.

Now, I ask OSAS this "yes" or "no" question:

When a man becomes a born again, washed in the blood, saved saint who loves Jesus more than anything, but slides back into his old life of serial raping women for the rest of his days, is he still bound for heaven like he was when he first was born again, YES OR NO?

 

[ATP]

When a man becomes a born again, washed in the blood, saved saint who loves Jesus more than anything, but slides back into his old life of serial raping women for the rest of his days, is he still bound for heaven like he was when he first was born again, YES OR NO?

You will continue to accuse saints of beliefs they don't abide by. How can you claim to be in Christ when you insist that you are not free from sin.

1 John 3:9 NIV No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

1 John 5:18 NIV We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

 

[Phoneman777]

Which is it, "yes" or "no"? If he lives out the rest of his days raping women, is he going to end up in heaven or hell? I think it's a fair question to ask OSAS, don't you think?

 

[mjrhealth]

Which is it, "yes" or "no"? If he lives out the rest of his days raping women, is he going to end up in heaven or hell? I think it's a fair question to ask OSAS, don't you think?

If a man was to do that he was never saved in the first place, and is it for you to judge Him. I have a friend , if you knew him, you would ask, " how could he possibly be saved", yet he has already being shown that there is no judgement for Him. How man doubts the power of God. He created the heavens and teh earth and all things therein but man makes Him out to be impotent, its no wonder christainty as a religion is in such a mess.

God doesnt need your help to save you, he just need you to believe He can, so why dont you????

 

[ATP]

Which is it, "yes" or "no"? If he lives out the rest of his days raping women, is he going to end up in heaven or hell? I think it's a fair question to ask OSAS, don't you think?

IF he lives out? No Phone, a saint will not live out the rest of his days sinning. It goes against scripture. Do you believe God or your own understanding?

1 John 3:9 NIV No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

1 John 5:4-5 NIV for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

1 John 5:18 NIV We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the One who was born of God keeps them safe, and the evil one cannot harm them.

 

[Phoneman777]

If a man was to do that he was never saved in the first place, and is it for you to judge Him. I have a friend , if you knew him, you would ask, " how could he possibly be saved", yet he has already being shown that there is no judgement for Him. How man doubts the power of God. He created the heavens and teh earth and all things therein but man makes Him out to be impotent, its no wonder christainty as a religion is in such a mess.

God doesnt need your help to save you, he just need you to believe He can, so why dont you????

You OSAS people are so backwards in your theology. You know full well that we are not to judge the hearts of any man, yet you confidently judge the man as having "never been saved", despite Jesus' express command that we do no such thing, for the very reason that we are incapable of looking upon the heart.

But, since no one will take you seriously if you say that this saved man who now rapes indiscriminately will be in the kingdom, you are forced to violate Scripture in order to establish what you think is Scripture. The truth is that a saved man may full well walk away from God and be lost because God is not a cosmic rapist who will force someone to remain in a relationship of which they no longer want to be a part, such as this saved man who turned back to his former life of raping women.