ANALYSIS OF MATTHEW 24:12-13 - WHY IT DISPROVES OSAS

[ATP]

Starting a thread in a Christian forum to discuss a particular scripture is the definition of a hypocrite?

That's a new one on me....did you get that from some scholarly treatise?

Remember, you can't discuss OSAS. Only Phoneman can.

 

[Barrd]

No Barrd. Only those who accept the free gift of salvation are saved. Why do you think Jesus mourns for the lost.

Well now...you got one right! Congratulations, my boy! erm....uh, girl...

 

[ATP]

Well now...you got one right! Congratulations, my boy! erm....uh, girl...

Do you believe Jesus died for your future sins.

 

[Barrd]

Remember, you can't discuss OSAS. Only Phoneman can.

Discuss OSAS in the context of this thread.

 

[ATP]

Can someone please respond to post 5.

 

[ATP]

...then how can anyone who no longer possesses agape be any longer numbered with the saints? The answer is that they are not.

Neither present nor future will be able to separate the elect from agape love..

Rom 8:33 ESV Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

Rom 8:35 ESV Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword?

Rom 8:38-39 ESV For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 11:28-29 NIV As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.

Jude 1:1 NIV Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:

What does it mean to be "in Christ Jesus our Lord" in Rom 8:39 ESV...

Rom 5:5 NIV And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Rom 8:1 NIV Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus

1 Cor 1:30 NIV It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

Eph 1:13-14 NIV And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

- ATP

 

[ATP]

Agape love...

John 17:26 NIV I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

Col 1:3-5 NIV We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, 4 because we have heard of your faith in Christ Jesus and of the love you have for all the saints--5 the faith and love that spring from the hope that is stored up for you in heaven and that you have already heard about in the word of truth, the gospel

 

[Phoneman777]

We are discussing OSAS, ATP. We are isolating one particular scripture that refutes it, in the hope that some of you OSASers would focus on what this one scripture is saying.

Perhaps we will do the same with a few other scriptures, to the end that at least a few of you might realize that OSAS is a false doctrine...

Precisely. I'm trying to get these poor sufferers of Cognitive Dissonance to accept that they have a major problem with their OSAS doctrine when considering the saints of Matthew 24:12 KJV which wind up "agape-less" through iniquity. It's proving as difficult as getting atheists to acknowledge the serious problems with evolution like Paleocurrents, Polonium Halos, the Fossil Record, etc. Like trying to herd cats.

 

[ATP]

Precisely. I'm trying to get these poor sufferers of Cognitive Dissonance to accept that they have a major problem with their OSAS doctrine when considering the saints of Matthew 24:12 KJV which wind up "agape-less" through iniquity. It's proving as difficult as getting atheists to acknowledge the serious problems with evolution like Paleocurrents, Polonium Halos, the Fossil Record, etc. Like trying to herd cats.

..and yet Rom 8:39 agape love will never separate the elect from God. :wacko:

 

[ATP]

Don't think to hard Phoneman.

 

[ATP]

Agape love...

Eph 1:4-5 NIV For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will.

2 Cor 5:14-15 NIV For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. 15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

 

[Phoneman777]

I thought you didn't wanna talk to me. <_<

If a particular scripture refutes it, then Jesus lied and did not die for all sins Heb 9:12.

Rom 4:7-8 NIV, Rom 6:10 NIV, Rom 8:38-39 ESV, Col 2:13-15 NIV, Heb 7:23-25 NIV, Heb 7:27 NIV, Heb 9:12 NIV, Heb 9:24-28 NIV, Heb 10:10-12 NIV, 1 Pet 3:18 NIV

Someone here is taking scripture out of context, and I don't think it's...

Post your worthless OSAS "proof texts" elsewhere - stick to the scope of this thread.

The purpose of this thread is to determine whether or not OSAS stands the test of Biblical scrutiny regarding the two verses in the OP.

So, ATP, are you bold enough to publicly declare that the saints who lost their agape and thus cannot keep the Two Great Commandments are still candidates for "the great gettin' up morning"???

 

[ATP]

The purpose of this thread is to determine whether or not OSAS stands the test of Biblical scrutiny regarding the two verses in the OP.

..and yet agape love will never separate the elect from God Rom 8:33, 38-39 ESV. It's time for coffee, maybe tomorrow.

So, ATP, are you bold enough to publicly declare that the saints who lost their agape and thus cannot keep the Two Great Commandments are still candidates for "the great gettin' up morning"???

Their agape love was quenched Phone, not lost.....

agape love will never separate the elect from God Rom 8:33, 38-39 ESV. It's time for coffee, maybe tomorrow. Amen. :)

 

[ATP]

I don't feel the agape love from the OP.

 

[Phoneman777]

Remember, you can't discuss OSAS. Only Phoneman can.

ATP, this discussion is whether OSAS stands test of Biblical scrutiny regarding Matthew 24:12 KJV and whether "agape-less" people who can't keep the Two Great Commandments are heaven bound. If you persist in willful distortion of reality, I will put you on my ignore list as well.

 

[Phoneman777]

..and yet agape love will never separate the elect from God Rom 8:33, 38-39 ESV. It's time for coffee, maybe tomorrow.


Their agape love was quenched Phone, not lost.....

agape love will never separate the elect from God Rom 8:33, 38-39 ESV. It's time for coffee, maybe tomorrow. Amen. :)

Their agape love grew cold and DEAD, ATP, got it? Cold and dead, not somewhat cooler and yet alive. They don't possess agape because it turned cold and dead. Though God loves everyone with everlasting love, and the saints are known by their agape love for each other and for God and by the agape love that God perfects in them, are these saints of verse 12 whose agape love is cold and dead still known as saints? Go on, ATP, you can finally accept what everyone else with even casual understanding of Scripture knows.

 

[ATP]

Their agape love grew cold and DEAD, ATP, got it? Cold and dead, not somewhat cooler and yet alive. They don't possess agape because it turned cold and dead. Do they still get to go to heaven?

Yes, they still go to heaven because neither (present nor future) can separate the elect from agape love Rom 8:33, 38-39 ESV. Rom 8 is from the Word of God.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes, they still go to heaven because neither (present nor future) can separate the elect from agape love Rom 8:33, 38-39 ESV. Rom 8 is from the Word of God.

How can they be known as saints when they are no longer in possession of agape?

 

[ATP]

How can they be known as saints when they are no longer in possession of agape?

Notice the word "separate"... Rom 8:38-39 ESV For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are only made holy through the blood of Christ, and not of our works so no man can boast. Eph 2:7-9 NIV.

Heb 10:10-12 NIV And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

 

[Phoneman777]

Notice the word "separate"... Rom 8:38-39 ESV For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

We are only made holy through the blood of Christ, and not of our works so no man can boast. Eph 2:7-9 NIV.

Heb 10:10-12 NIV And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.

ATP, Jesus didn't say "the agape of God would wax cold". It says "the agape of MANY". Got it? We're not talking about God's agape toward us, we are talking about OUR agape toward God, OUR agape toward others, and OUR agape that is perfected in us by God - all by which the Bible says the saint is known.

Please stop confusing the issue. The "agape of MANY" is cold and dead, so how can they be any longer known as saints when they no longer fit the identifying mark of saints???