Anolther Leaven Fragment

[Duckybill]

And thus the Biblical pattern for God's people during times of tribulation has been to do what?

Pray, fast, resist the Devil and trust in God's promises for protection.


Psalm 91:2-11 (ESV)
[sup]2 [/sup]I will say to the Lord, “My refuge and my fortress, my God, in whom I trust.”
[sup]3 [/sup]For he will deliver you from the snare of the fowler and from the deadly pestilence.
[sup]4 [/sup]He will cover you with his pinions, and under his wings you will find refuge; his faithfulness is a shield and buckler.
[sup]5 [/sup]You will not fear the terror of the night, nor the arrow that flies by day,
[sup]6 [/sup]nor the pestilence that stalks in darkness, nor the destruction that wastes at noonday.
[sup]7 [/sup]A thousand may fall at your side, ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you.
[sup]8 [/sup]You will only look with your eyes and see the recompense of the wicked.
[sup]9 [/sup]Because you have made the Lord your dwelling place— the Most High, who is my refuge—
[sup]10 [/sup]no evil shall be allowed to befall you, no plague come near your tent.
[sup]11 [/sup]For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways.

 

[veteran]

Luke 12:45-48
45 But and if that servant say in his heart, 'My lord delayeth his coming'; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
(KJV)

Christ's elect will be under the greater punishment IF they don't stay on watch, for whomsoever much is given, much is required. The reason is because they are given to know "the times and the seasons" of Christ's coming.

 

[Duckybill]

Christ's elect will be under the greater punishment IF they don't stay on watch, for whomsoever much is given, much is required. The reason is because they are given to know "the times and the seasons" of Christ's coming.

Are you "Christ's elect"?

 

[veteran]

Are you "Christ's elect"?

You're a member of Christ's Body aren't you?

 

[Duckybill]

You're a member of Christ's Body aren't you?

So you consider pre-tribbers saved?

 

[australia]

So you consider pre-tribbers saved?

My understanding is that pre-tribbers will be saved but left walking in nakedness and shame.

 

[Foreigner]

My understanding is that pre-tribbers will be saved but left walking in nakedness and shame.

-- Just like the people who make comments such as these.

 

[veteran]

Can we say all those who 'claim' Christ Jesus will be saved? Is that even up to us? No.

But our Lord Jesus didn't leave us guessing...

Matt 7:21-27
21 Not every one that saith unto Me, "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?"
23 And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
(KJV)




One of the commandments our Lord Jesus gave us was to learn the parable of the fig tree (Matt.24; Mark 13).

Does obeying our Lord Jesus in that mean keeping His sayings? Yes.

Learning that parable of the fig tree is about learning to watch the signs of the end leading up to His return. That's why He commanded that we learn that within the Matt.24 and Mark 13 chapters, which are chapters about the signs of the end.

But those who don't care to watch, but just claim to be ready for His coming, have already broken His commandment to learn that parable about signs of the end.

 

[Duckybill]

My understanding is that pre-tribbers will be saved but left walking in nakedness and shame.

Oh my.

 

[Duckybill]

Can we say all those who 'claim' Christ Jesus will be saved? Is that even up to us? No.

But our Lord Jesus didn't leave us guessing...

Matt 7:21-27
21 Not every one that saith unto Me, "Lord, Lord", shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of My Father Which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works?"
23 And then will I profess unto them, "I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity."
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of Mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. One of the commandments our Lord Jesus gave us was to learn the parable of the fig tree (Matt.24; Mark 13).

Does obeying our Lord Jesus in that mean keeping His sayings? Yes.

Learning that parable of the fig tree is about learning to watch the signs of the end leading up to His return. That's why He commanded that we learn that within the Matt.24 and Mark 13 chapters, which are chapters about the signs of the end.

But those who don't care to watch, but just claim to be ready for His coming, have already broken His commandment to learn that parable about signs of the end.

So you're saying you perfectly understand and keep all of the NT commands? There are many who are dogmatic about their favorite doctrines and judge others thereby. The fact is that you are EXTREMELY judgmental. It will come back to haunt you.

 

[veteran]

So you're saying you perfectly understand and keep all of the NT commands? There are many who are dogmatic about their favorite doctrines and judge others thereby. The fact is that you are EXTREMELY judgmental. It will come back to haunt you.

The Word of God is the Measure; we all will be judged by It.

But you keep dwelling on things outside God's Word. The real pointer you show is that you don't want to allow The Word of God to judge YOU. That's why you would instead heed men's doctrines like the pre-trib rapture theory which is an idea that does not measure up to God's Holy Writ. Within that group I've even heard some mock our Lord Jesus' command to learn the parable of the fig tree.

Matt 24:32-33
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
(KJV)

 

[Duckybill]

The Word of God is the Measure; we all will be judged by It.

But you keep dwelling on things outside God's Word.

I 'dwell' on this:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (ESV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Is that not "God's Word"?

The real pointer you show is that you don't want to allow The Word of God to judge YOU.

What a lie!!! Have you not read what will happen to ALL liars?

That's why you would instead heed men's doctrines like the pre-trib rapture theory which is an idea that does not measure up to God's Holy Writ.

Again, you are giving your opinion.

Within that group I've even heard some mock our Lord Jesus' command to learn the parable of the fig tree.

So you are responsible for everything taught in your 'group'?

Matt 24:32-33
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
(KJV)

Truth indeed!

 

[australia]

You only need to put on the whole armour of God to hide your nakedness, not just a couple of verses.

 

[TWC]

I 'dwell' on this:

[/font]1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (ESV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

Is that not "God's Word"?

At what point in this passage does it say that any of this happens prior to the tribulation? This is a classic case of imposing false doctrine on scripture.

 

[veteran]

At what point in this passage does it say that any of this happens prior to the tribulation? This is a classic case of imposing false doctrine on scripture.

No doubt some here on the pre-trib rapture theory of men don't care to heed God's Word as written. Those are not like other deceived believers on that doctrine which simply have not verified for themselves in God's Word as to whether it's true or not.

 

[Duckybill]

At what point in this passage does it say that any of this happens prior to the tribulation? This is a classic case of imposing false doctrine on scripture.

I didn't say either way. All I did was quote God's Word. Are you saying Paul was "imposing false doctrine"?

You only need to put on the whole armour of God to hide your nakedness, not just a couple of verses.

Perhaps you need to stop judging others.

 

[TWC]

You're using the passage to support the doctrine of a pretribulation rapture when there's nothing in the text to support the event happening before the tribulation.

 

[Duckybill]

You're using the passage to support the doctrine of a pretribulation rapture when there's nothing in the text to support the event happening before the tribulation.

Actually I was referring to you judging others.

 

[TWC]

No. The discussion was about a pretribulation rapture. Nowhere in the passage of scripture you used to defend this pretribulation rapture does it say that the elect are gathered before the tribulation. You were called out on this, so now you're whining that we're being judgmental.

If you believe that the Bible supports your doctrine, post scripture to support it, but if you quote scripture that has nothing whatsoever to do with your position, expect someone to correct you.

 

[Duckybill]

No. The discussion was about a pretribulation rapture. Nowhere in the passage of scripture you used to defend this pretribulation rapture does it say that the elect are gathered before the tribulation. You were called out on this, so now you're whining that we're being judgmental.

I was referring to your comment "You only need to put on the whole armour of God to hide your nakedness, not just a couple of verses."

If you believe that the Bible supports your doctrine, post scripture to support it, but if you quote scripture that has nothing whatsoever to do with your position, expect someone to correct you.

Actually I don't have any doctrine on the 'rapture' other than to believe Paul's perfectly clear statement:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 (ESV)
[sup]16 [/sup]For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. [sup]17 [/sup]Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

I probably wouldn't have much to say either way about the WHEN of the rapture subject if most of you who deny pre-trib weren't so judgmental against everyone else continuously implying that we will worship the anti-Christ, and that you are absolutely right about the timing of the rapture. I suspect that your self-righteousness will condemn you.