Another Premillennial absurdity

[MatthewG]

All Christians (followers of Christ) can still sin or we wouldn't have 1 John 3:4.

If sin was no longer a concern for the devout Christian, we would not have many warnings against it, even throughout the New Testament.

Still doesn't stop Jesus Christ death from occuring.

It was for sin. It was taken care of, for all people. Some believe his death is only for certain people, it is whatever you wanna take it for as I can't force anyone to believe like myself.

I just stated you can still sin, and thank you reassuring me that wasn't wrong to say you can.

God bless.

 

[MatthewG]

I do not do links or outside books. It shows a sign that someone is stumped. If you do not know what you leave or are unable to biblically justify your teaching you are better keeping it to yourself.

Oh well then, I can't waste time here on debating it. Fruitless especially with people who done have their own mind up, which is how it should be.

Your mind should be set in what you believe. It is simply Jesus Christ and the context of the bible that changed my mind.

Jesus did not lie about returning, nor the Apostles that continune to tell them to watch and wait.

But maybe those sections dont matter.

Up to you totally.

 

[WPM]

Sure, you can set yourself up and idol and worship it.

You can be mean and demean other people.

You can kill them.

Sin has been taken care of though by Christ and he is the only answer to a new life, which doesn't deal with the flesh anymore.

That is simply not true. The curse has not been lifted from man and creation. That is still to happen. Man and the earth is still to be delivered from the bondage of corruption.

 

[MatthewG]

Oh, I guess i should say I believe by Faith Jesus Christ returned in 70Ad.

Because of when the Wrath of God fell on Jerusalem.


So you can't really fight against a person who believe it by faith anyway ya know? @WPM.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Then show me clear millennial passages that teach this. Premils foist so much unrelated OT Scripture upon Revelation 20, because they can make the less vivid OT passages say whatever they want. They have nothing in the NT.

I’m taking you to be saying that you don’t want any OT verses I think apply to the thousand year period of time? Even though a good workman takes some of the old and some of the new? That’s a question - you are saying the older prophecy can’t be be used? I repeat, that’s a question, not a…disparagement of your person.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Show us Scripture please. All i am getting is your opinions.

I can I guess. I just thought everyone would know the scriptures I was referring to.

 

[MatthewG]

That is simply not true. The curse has not been lifted from man and creation. That is still to happen. Man and the earth is still to be delivered from the bondage of corruption.

Good thing we do not have to go to Jerusalem and sacrifice animals once a year for our sins to be forgiven due to the temple not being around anyway, it is why context is important.

Cause that is what the people in that age kept doing despite Jesus death and resurrection.

And all that material came down, just as Jesus promised it would in 70 Ad.

Thank you for giving me the time and day to share this all with you specifically.

Take care my friend.

 

[WPM]

Good thing we do not have to go to Jerusalem and sacrifice animals once a year for our sins to be forgiven due to the temple not being around anyway, it is why context is important.

Cause that is what the people in that age kept doing despite Jesus death and resurrection.

Thank you for giving me the time and day to share this all with you specifically.

Take care my friend.

Let us establish a few absolutes:

· Glorification has not yet happened!
· We still live in corruptible bodies.
· The earth is still fallen.
· Sin and sickness, death and decay, are an ongoing reality for mankind.
· The renewal of the creature and creation are still to happen.

 

[WPM]

I can I guess. I just thought everyone would know the scriptures I was referring to.

No. Show us these supposed millennial passages. Let us examine them.

 

[WPM]

I’m taking you to be saying that you don’t want any OT verses I think apply to the thousand year period of time? Even though a good workman takes some of the old and some of the new? That’s a question - you are saying the older prophecy can’t be be used? I repeat, that’s a question, not a…disparagement of your person.

I didn't say that. I was intimating that the NT was the fuller revelation. Most enlightened Christians accept that.

 

[MatthewG]

Let us establish a few absolutes:

· Glorification has not yet happened!
· We still live in corruptible bodies.
· The earth is still fallen.
· Sin and sickness, death and decay, are an ongoing reality for mankind.
· The renewal of the creature and creation are still to happen.

Nope you still have to die.

The world has been reconciled. 2 Corinthians 5:19, and that is why I believe the world has actually reverted in a spiritual sense back to the Garden of Eden. People make the choice to seek out God in faith from the tree of life, or simply go after the tree of knowledge of good and evil, with no thought of God at all due to nonfaith.

 

[WPM]

Oh, I guess i should say I believe by Faith Jesus Christ returned in 70Ad.

Because of when the Wrath of God fell on Jerusalem.


So you can't really fight against a person who believe it by faith anyway ya know? @WPM.

There are a lot of people that believe a lot of nonsense out there. It doesn't make it true. It is a figment of the imagination.

Did Jesus Christ come literally with the coming of Titus in AD70?
Did Jesus Christ come physically with the coming of Titus in AD70?
Did Jesus Christ come visibly with the coming of Titus in AD70?
Did Jesus Christ come audibly with the coming of Titus in AD70?
Did Jesus Christ come bodily with the coming of Titus in AD70?

 

[MatthewG]

Don't forget we have to die to ourselves, and also be born again becoming a children of God.

The new birth in the old creation - this flesh.

 

[Randy Kluth]

If some will be ruling and reigning with Christ, that would necessitate that there be someone to rule over and it never says some Of the holy will rule over some of the holy, it says the holy will rule over the righteous, and the “with Christ” part would seem to necessitate that Christ would be here too…

Oh my goodness--it's much easier than that, though I agree with you. Jesus' apostles were told that he would return just as he left. In other words, as he left the earth for the clouds of heaven he will return with the clouds to earth. Is that explicit or what?

Those who say Jesus is not coming back to earth are denying what he said. And they are denying the OT Prophets who predicting a Messianic Kingdom is coming.

I don't claim to know whether his coming to earth is purely temporary or what? I personally believe his coming is strictly for the establishment of Christianity in Israel and for reviving Christianity across the earth. But how he does that I don't know. He may only make a "cameo appearance," and then return to heaven, allowing evangelists on earth to continue the work of building the Church?

What I do believe is that due to the resistance of Satan and evil men the Church program has never been completed as God intended. God promised Abraham Christian Israel and Christian nations. And this was promised to be "forevermore," with no more oppression from pagan nations.

That hasn't happened yet. So Jesus is coming back to earth to make that happen on earth. He may not remain here, but may return to heaven with his glorified Church. But these things are "above me" right now. I hope to know more....

 

[MatthewG]

There are a lot of people that believe a lot of nonsense out there. It doesn't make it true. It is a figment of the imagination.

Did Jesus Christ come literally with the coming of Titus in AD70?
Did Jesus Christ come physically with the coming of Titus in AD70?
Did Jesus Christ come visibly with the coming of Titus in AD70?
Did Jesus Christ come audibly with the coming of Titus in AD70?
Did Jesus Christ come bodily with the coming of Titus in AD70?

I believe in faith He did, those looking for him and waiting saw him. There is just no record of it.

 

[WPM]

Nope you still have to die.

The world has been reconciled. 2 Corinthians 5:19, and that is why I believe the world has actually reverted in a spiritual sense back to the Garden of Eden. People make the choice to seek out God in faith from the tree of life, or simply go after the tree of knowledge of good and evil, with no thought of God at all due to nonfaith.

Do you still sin? Do you still struggle with illness and sickness? Are you going to physically die?

 

[MatthewG]

Do you still sin? Do you still struggle with illness and sickness? Are you going to physically die?

Why ask a silly question.

I am gonna die one day, and go on to the heavenly realm. My hope is to reside with the family of believers.

 

[Randy Kluth]

No. Just highlighting a bad habit you have. You do not ascertain, you assume.

Still, you didn't confirm what I said. You extend your bad manners. There's nothing wrong with making assumptions if they are questions. What's bad is if someone has the answers and refuses to give them.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

That is simply not true. The curse has not been lifted from man and creation. That is still to happen. Man and the earth is still to be delivered from the bondage of corruption.

I agree with you the curse has not been lifted. We still get our bread by the sweat of our brow among many thorns and hardships God did not want (though some think you can just have your money grow more money and get your bread that way but getting your bread by charging interest and getting your bread by the sweat of someone else’s brow and hard labor is not from God but from the world and no one will get away with it in the end when He asks, why did you grind the faces of the poor into the dust and make them carry you on their back and exhaust them terribly?) And there is still pain in childbirth. And there’s death still.
so I agree, the curses are not lifted, either physically OR spiritually.

 

[WPM]

Oh my goodness--it's much easier than that, though I agree with you. Jesus' apostles were told that he would return just as he left. In other words, as he left the earth for the clouds of heaven he will return with the clouds to earth. Is that explicit or what?

Those who say Jesus is not coming back to earth are denying what he said. And they are denying the OT Prophets who predicting a Messianic Kingdom is coming.

I don't claim to know whether his coming to earth is purely temporary or what? I personally believe his coming is strictly for the establishment of Christianity in Israel and for reviving Christianity across the earth. But how he does that I don't know. He may only make a "cameo appearance," and then return to heaven, allowing evangelists on earth to continue the work of building the Church?

What I do believe is that due to the resistance of Satan and evil men the Church program has never been completed as God intended. God promised Abraham Christian Israel and Christian nations. And this was promised to be "forevermore," with no more oppression from pagan nations.

That hasn't happened yet. So Jesus is coming back to earth to make that happen on earth. He may not remain here, but may return to heaven with his glorified Church. But these things are "above me" right now. I hope to know more....

He's not coming back to a corrupt earth plagued by sin and sinners, deception and being deceived, crying and dying, disease and decay, war and terror, Satan and his devils as you argue. He's not coming back to a corrupt earth that is increasingly overrun by wicked men in their billions. He's coming back to a perfect pristine arrangement that has been purged of all the bondage of corruption. Those who populate it must be glorified because it is a glorified earth.