Another simple disproof of Amil: No more sea

[Truth7t7]

You should give up ignoring and avoiding Greek verb tenses and accept the truth about the passage. Paul places some things in the present tense to be happening at the second coming and he places other things in a future tense for things NOT HAPPENING at the second coming. This is basic practice for proper bible study. Just ignoring all of this in favor of doctrinal bias is just plain lazy and wrong. It's intellectual dishonesty at minimum.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

This verb is in the present tense in the Greek manuscripts so this “taking vengeance” happens during the second coming.

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

“shall be punished” is in the FUTURE TENSE which means that the everlasting destruction ie: GWTJ/LOF is NOT happening at the second coming but is a FUTURE event after the second coming just as Premill teaches and exactly opposite of what Amill teaches.

https://biblehub. com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/1-9.htm

You can verify in the link above that the verb tisousin is in the future tense: verb tense: future indicative active.

Amill will AVOID this fact as much as possible because it destroys the false teachings it espouses!

Read that verb tense below, When Jesus returns and is "Revealed" its "Fire Time"!

"Destroyed Them All"

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Timtofly]

You haven't dealt with the fact that all those who reject the Gospel are eternally separated at his coming from those who are glorified at his coming.
The Lord is clearly coming in vengeance against those who harm us. (Bringing the Church eternal relief)

This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.


Paul is clearly not a premillennialist.

Where does Paul state in those verses, nothing happens after the Second Coming?

 

[Timtofly]

Paul said it does happen at his appearing; on that same day we are glorified...,


dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day,



Thats right. this vengeance is eternal separation from his coming presence. The man of sin is put to an end by the power of his appearing in the following chapter.

The deluding influence on those who persist in unbelief through satans activity comes to an end so they can be judged and condemned.



8 Then the lawless one [the Antichrist] will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of His mouth and bring him to an end by the appearance of His coming.

9 The coming of the [Antichrist, the lawless] one is through the activity of Satan, [attended] with great power [all kinds of counterfeit miracles] and [deceptive] signs and false wonders [all of them lies], 10 and by unlimited seduction to evil and with all the deception of wickedness for those who are perishing, because they did not welcome the love of the truth [of the gospel] so as to be saved [they were spiritually blind, and rejected the truth that would have saved them]. 1

1 Because of this God will send upon them a misleading influence, [an activity of error and deception] so they will believe the lie, 12 in order that all may be judged and condemned who did not believe the truth [about their sin, and the need for salvation through Christ], but instead took pleasure in unrighteousness.

So is the day of our glorification Lol

Those verses do not give a judgment on those in Death and sheol. Those verses are talking about those physically alive who are redeemed, and who are unrighteous.

The quick and the dead are not about those physically alive contrasted with those physically dead. Jesus will judge those who are currently physically alive at the point of the Second Coming.

The redeemed are the church glorified in Him. The rest of humanity are dealt with during the Trumpets and Thunders. Jesus is on the earth with His angels dealing with the living.

"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;"

Jesus will set up a kingdom on earth. The kingdom in heaven was set up at the Cross. You seem to embrace the one, but totally reject the kingdom that will be set up on the earth.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations:"

Jesus did not say He would sit in heaven for the next indefinite time period. Jesus says in the future at the Second Coming, He will sit on a throne after He comes to earth with the angels. While on earth, He will sit as King on that throne. The separation of sheep and goats was not an ongoing phenomenon over the last 1992 years. That separation will not even start, until after Jesus is King on a throne in Jerusalem and the angels are on the earth with Him.

And when Jesus comes the second time, it will be as King to rule, not as Messiah to die all over again. The church will not even be on earth. Their home and kingdom is in Paradise in the firmament we call heaven.

 

[Timtofly]

If the bible is telling us that the nh/ne is basically Eden restored, then shouldn't we ask the question....'why would seas, and everything in them, be "not good""?

The NHNE is not Eden restored.

Eden restored is that heavenly city, Paradise currently filled with the redeemed walking around in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Eden was restored at the Cross.

The earth will be restored at the Second Coming. The earth will go back to before Adam's punishment and disobedience. This restoration will go on for 1,000 years and then Jesus will deliver all of creation back to God. It will be handed back as perfect as in Genesis 1.

The NHNE is a totally different experience. If life were a video game, it would not be a next level in the game. It would be a totally different game with different parameters altogether. All that has to do with current creation will be permanently forgotten.

Revelation 21:4

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

All former things are passed away. Even the memories. The concept of heaven and earth may change as now God and Jesus dwell in the New Jerusalem on the earth. Will the angels stay in the firmament, who knows?

 

[Timtofly]

The GWT is Gods righteous judgment, All will be there to receive their eternal resting place good or bad.

All the dead from Death and sheol. Not any of the church, nor redeemed prior to that point.

If any there get a good judgment, they are made righteous at that point and obtain the first resurrection.

In your claiming the good and bad, you are giving those in Death or sheol a chance to be made righteous.

Those at the GWT are both physically and spiritually dead. Those judged at the Second Coming are not physically dead. You obviously should know the difference between those on earth, and those who have been dead for up to 6,000 years, no?

 

[Timtofly]

Give it up brother.

When Jesus is revealed from heaven in v7 we shall all be like him for we shall see him as he is...having a glorious body like his glorious body... v9.

1Jn 3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Phill 3
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.



1cor 15
51 Listen very carefully, I tell you a mystery [a secret truth decreed by God and previously hidden, but now revealed]; we will not all sleep [in death], but we will all be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed], 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at [the sound of] the last trumpet call. For a trumpet will sound, and the dead [who believed in Christ] will be raised imperishable, and we will be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed]. 53 For this perishable [part of us] must put on the imperishable [nature], and this mortal [part of us that is capable of dying] must put on immortality [which is freedom from death]. 54 And when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the Scripture will be fulfilled that says, “Death is swallowed up in victory (vanquished forever).


1thess 4
15 For we say this to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are still alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede [into His presence] those [believers] who have fallen asleep [in death]. 16 For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the [blast of the] trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain [on the earth] will simultaneously be caught up (raptured) together with them [the resurrected ones] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord! 18 Therefore comfort and encourage one another with these words [concerning our reunion with believers who have died].

Yes, but the rest of the dead, those physically dead for the last, 6,000 years do wait another 1,000 years.

You keep conflating those currently in sheol with those judged at the Second Coming, who are those physically alive on the earth, at the time of His appearing.

You are implying that Paul is implying. According to your own objections, any one who implies without Scripture is just making things up. Amil are implying that Paul is implying something not stated.

 

[jeffweeder]

Yes, but the rest of the dead, those physically dead for the last, 6,000 years do wait another 1,000 years.

You keep conflating those currently in sheol with those judged at the Second Coming, who are those physically alive on the earth, at the time of His appearing.

You are implying that Paul is implying. According to your own objections, any one who implies without Scripture is just making things up. Amil are implying that Paul is implying something not stated.

Not implying.
Paul taught that at the appearing of the Lord he would judge the living and the dead.


2Tim 4
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2 preach the word [as an official messenger]; be ready when the time is right and even when it is not [keep your sense of urgency, whether the opportunity seems favorable or unfavorable, whether convenient or inconvenient, whether welcome or unwelcome]; correct [those who err in doctrine or behavior], warn [those who sin], exhort and encourage [those who are growing toward spiritual maturity], with inexhaustible patience and [faithful] teaching. 3 For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine and accurate instruction [that challenges them with God’s truth]; but wanting to have their ears tickled [with something pleasing], they will accumulate for themselves [many] teachers [one after another, chosen] to satisfy their own desires and to support the errors they hold, 4 and will turn their ears away from the truth and will wander off into myths and man-made fictions [and will accept the unacceptable]. 5 But as for you, be clear-headed in every situation [stay calm and cool and steady], endure every hardship [without flinching], do the work of an evangelist, fulfill [the duties of] your ministry.

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure [from this world] is at hand and I will soon go free. 7 I have fought the good and worthy and noble fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith [firmly guarding the gospel against error]. 8 In the future there is reserved for me the [victor’s] crown of righteousness [for being right with God and doing right], which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that [great] day—and not to me only, but also to all those who have loved and longed for and welcomed His appearing.


1Pet 4
3 For the time already past is [more than] enough for doing what the [unsaved] Gentiles like to do—living [unrestrained as you have done] in a course of [shameless] sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties, and wanton idolatries. 4 In [connection with] all this, they [the unbelievers] are resentful and surprised that you do not [think like them, value their values and] run [hand in hand] with them into the same excesses of dissipation and immoral freedom, and they criticize and abuse and ridicule you and make fun of your values. 5 But they will [have to] give an account to Him who is ready to judge and pass sentence on the living and the dead.

 

[Naomi25]

I believe many times "Sea" "Sand" and "Waters" in the Bible symbolizes masses of people

Revelation 13:1 The Beast rises out of the "Sea" this represents "People" not rebellion or Chaos

Revelation 17:1 the whore sits upon many waters, this is multitudes of "People" just as Revelation 17:15 below clearly teaches

Revelation 17:15KJV
15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Okay...sure, this is true. However, I think we can perhaps discount it as a probable interpretation, if only for the fact that we know that the new heavens and new earth will, absolutely, have multitudes of people, from all nations and tongues. They will worship the lamb, rather than be of the world, but still...

 

[Truth7t7]

Okay...sure, this is true. However, I think we can perhaps discount it as a probable interpretation, if only for the fact that we know that the new heavens and new earth will, absolutely, have multitudes of people, from all nations and tongues. They will worship the lamb, rather than be of the world, but still...

Straight, Narrow, Few

Matthew 7:13-14KJV
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[Naomi25]

Yes I do. You say there is a sea on the new earth, no matter that the Scripture says, so that you can make this earth the new earth, and so say there is no thousand year reign of Jesus Christ on this earth, before it becomes the new earth.

Just ease up a moment. I'm positing as an idea, not being dogmatic. And I don't appreciate any person swinging into a debate broadsword first. We're Christians, and as such, we ought to be able to discuss what we see in scripture in order to try and find a greater understanding. I'm not after my own understanding...I'm after truth. Yeah? I don't give a fig for labels and am hardly pinning my hope on them.

I now know all about it from Millennium unbelievers, by what is posted on this site.

Are you honestly suggesting that those who believe Christ is ruling and reigning now are unbelievers?
Hmmm. Quite apart from dismantling the doctrine of salvation by faith...there would appear to be some verses that you must explain away, if this the case, don't you think? Like Eph 1:20-23, 1 Cor 15:27, 1 Pet 3:22, Heb 1:3

When plainly spoken words of Scripture are made only symbols, in order to change the normal meaning of Scripture, then the Bible is made into just another book of fables of men.

For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

This would be grievous if true. However, the accusation does not hold water. At all. The bible itself employs imagery. Symbolism. Dare we condemn God himself for this usage? Of course not. What then, is the correct way to understand these images?
Even the Dispensationalists do it. I have heard multiple dispensational teachers make this claim: 'let scripture interpret scripture'. It slightly astounds me that they then turn around and accuse their Amillennial brothers of 'spiritualising' scripture, when they do the very same thing. They look to the OT's use of imagery and symbolism to guide their understanding of NT symbols and imagery.
So...let me ask you this: if Daniel tells us that a beast represents a kindgom, and we therefore read Revelation as referring to certain kindgoms of the world as it speaks of beasts...how then are we spiritualising it? Where is the fable?

There's no harm in trying to spiritualize any Scripture we want, but not at the cost of it's plain natural meaning.

If a child can understand something, such as there will be no sea on the new earth, then so must the adults.

We can perhaps ask why not, but we must not contradict it and say, yes there will be a sea on the new earth, no matter what God says.

Everyone asks questions in regards to 'plain meanings'.
For example: Matt 24:34. "Plain reading" of that text would insist that THAT generation...the one Jesus was speaking to, must witness all he was saying. And yet Dispensationalists have managed to...in what I would say, quite 'un-plain' meaning, jump through exegetical hoops to fit it into their doctrine.
Goose, gander.

In part, I personally believe there will be no sea on the new earth, just so God can say so, and see if unbelievers in His Millennium will go so far as to reject His plainly spoken word, about there being no sea on His new earth.

Or symbolize it away as a fable only.

It may very well be so, and should it be, I will praise him.
But, as I pointed out in my last post....one must wonder why, when Eden was still pristine, before the fall, both sea, and what was created within it, was considered 'good'...but in the new perfection, it must be considered 'not good'. Part of the 'uncreation'.
Above my paygrade, of course, but there is so much beauty and majesty within the seas, so much that reflects the maker of heaven and earth. In its perfected nature, it must be magnificent...
Time will tell, I suppose.

True. Sometimes we don't have to spiritualize nor symbolize Scripture into something else, because normal sense tells us, when words of Scripture are symbols with spiritual teaching.

I'm sorry. Either I'm missing something massive here...or you are.
Granted...I'm sure there are dodgy folks out there who indeed take something in scripture and use it to paint a picture of some random weirdness.
But as far as I'm aware, using symbols from scripture...the whole and only point is TO point to a real and true spiritual teaching.
Having a symbol or image appear in scripture does not...never has, never will, give us leave to (insert here) what you choose or hope. It will always be intended to point to...be used to illustrate...a truth that is evident. Evident either outright, or by careful consideration of other biblical text.

But not the case with the Red Sea waves parting, nor there being no sea on the new earth.

If there being no sea on the new earth is only a symbol, then the new earth itself is nothing but a fable as well.

I...simply do not follow your logic here.
If something that was pointing to a spiritual truth did not turn out to be strictly literal, then the other things that were strictly literal cannot be true?

That's a little like insisting that if it isn't true that we 'literally' had a heart of stone within us that was taken out and replaced with a 'literal' heart of flesh, then the new earth cannot be true as well.

Having a spiritual reality described with imagery...(stone heart, replaced with flesh heart)...doesn't mean it happened literally....which would mean physically. And just because it didn't happened literally doesn't mean that the new earth wouldn't happen literally.
One happens spiritually...symbolically (but still very true!)...the other happens 'literally'...or physically.

True. In the Scriptures you quoted.


And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

No, it's not far fetched. Just plainly false.

So...what you're really telling me is that you have a problem with the whole "scripture interpreting scripture" thing.
Holding so tightly to literalism when the bible so clearly uses imagery, as you've admitted, in many places...well...let's just say it feels like the Pharisaical answer to antinomianism. I'd suggest a healthy approach is somewhat in the middle...or to at least be open to consideration of the issue, and what God might be showing his people through both word and image.

The problem is when we adults, get too smart for our own good, just so we can keep hold of our favorite traditions about the things of God.

I would never tell a child reading Revelation 21, that there really is a sea on the new earth, and make a fable out of Scripture, so that little child then begins to wonder what other parts of the Bible are just symbolic fables.

I'm sorry you've made assumptions. I wouldn't tell a child either way. There are a few absolutes we can know about the new heavens and earth; that God and his Christ will be there is one. That no sin, death or suffering will be there is another. Pretty much everything else is speculation of the highest order.
If you want to die on the hill of saying there will be no sea...you go for it. I'll not stop you. The fact that there may, or may not be a sea in the great yonder does not particularly weigh heavily on me...its the company, I suppose you could say, that I look forward to.

True.

The same on this earth in Jesus' millennial reign.

At least not on a national level, though He will withhold rain from any nation, that comes not to keep the feast of tabernacles with Him.

Again, I suppose we shall see.

 

[Naomi25]

The NHNE is not Eden restored.

Eden restored is that heavenly city, Paradise currently filled with the redeemed walking around in permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Eden was restored at the Cross.

The earth will be restored at the Second Coming. The earth will go back to before Adam's punishment and disobedience. This restoration will go on for 1,000 years and then Jesus will deliver all of creation back to God. It will be handed back as perfect as in Genesis 1.

The NHNE is a totally different experience. If life were a video game, it would not be a next level in the game. It would be a totally different game with different parameters altogether. All that has to do with current creation will be permanently forgotten.

Revelation 21:4

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

All former things are passed away. Even the memories. The concept of heaven and earth may change as now God and Jesus dwell in the New Jerusalem on the earth. Will the angels stay in the firmament, who knows?

Hmmm. So...let me just see if I can get this straight:
Eden was man dwelling in God's presence......NH/NE is man dwelling in God's presence.
Eden was a garden...NH/NE is a garden.
Eden had the tree of life....NH/NE has the tree of life.
Eden (pre-sin) was perfect...NH/NE will be perfect.

I'm sorry...explain to me again how the nh/ne is not Eden restored?

 

[Naomi25]

Straight, Narrow, Few

Matthew 7:13-14KJV
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Revelation 7:9–14

[9] After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, [10] and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” [11] And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, [12] saying, “Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God forever and ever! Amen.”
[13] Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, “Who are these, clothed in white robes, and from where have they come?” [14] I said to him, “Sir, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (ESV)

 

[ewq1938]

Read that verb tense below, When Jesus returns and is "Revealed" its "Fire Time"!

"Destroyed Them All"

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Wrong.

 

[ewq1938]

Hmmm. So...let me just see if I can get this straight:
Eden was man dwelling in God's presence......NH/NE is man dwelling in God's presence.
Eden was a garden...NH/NE is a garden.
Eden had the tree of life....NH/NE has the tree of life.
Eden (pre-sin) was perfect...NH/NE will be perfect.

I'm sorry...explain to me again how the nh/ne is not Eden restored?

You are confusing the garden in Eden with Eden itself, which would be like a country whereas the garden in Eden was the special place God created for Adam.

The New Earth is not a new Eden, nor a new garden...but a new Earth better than anything that existed as part of the old Earth including that original garden which was not sin free nor perfect in any sense.

 

[Naomi25]

You are confusing the garden in Eden with Eden itself, which would be like a country whereas the garden in Eden was the special place God created for Adam.

Well...first off, I believe you are, perhaps, pushing the image much further than I was attempting to.
Secondly...you could, correctly, state that Genesis puts the garden within Eden. However, when we read further into the OT, we see that the name 'Eden' is so intertwined with 'the garden of Eden', most people assume them one and the same. Indeed, we even see in Ezekiel 28:13-14, that 'Eden' was not just a garden, but also a mountain. In ancient times, people so understood the dwelling places of deities to be upon mountains, that they continually attempted to worship them there (see 'the high places') or build them themselves...pyramid, ziggurats...the tower of babel.
The point being; Eden was a garden, yes, but it was a place where God dwelt with man...a place where heaven intersected with earth. It may have been a place created for Adam, but not only created for Adam. It was created so Adam and God would have fellowship. That was what was fundamentally lost when sin entered the world...that relationship.

The New Earth is not a new Eden, nor a new garden...but a new Earth better than anything that existed as part of the old Earth including that original garden which was not sin free nor perfect in any sense.

I grant you...the New Earth may be much grander than what Eden originally was. However, there is no real way for us to know.
Which brings me to my confusion.
You say the New Earth is not a 'new garden'. Granted, there will be a city...the New Jerusalem. But we also know that there will be a river and a tree. And that sin and corruption will be no more. Unless cityscape covers the globe, we must expect garden-like landscapes, no? If part of the original curse of sin was thorn and thistle in working the land, then logic presumes the lack of those within these garden-like landscapes?
But...I wonder further: You say the original Eden was not sin free or perfect in any sense. Clearly it was not after the fall...but...what leads you to conclude sin existed before the fall? The presence of Satan? Can we assume his influence on God's creation before...well...his actual influence? Should we not limit his influence til the moment when scripture tells us it had an influence? Before then, I would imagine we ought to, like God says, consider all things "good".
Just my thoughts, but if you want to clarify I would be pleased to hear it...

 

[ewq1938]

Clearly it was not after the fall...but...what leads you to conclude sin existed before the fall? The presence of Satan?

Yes.

 

[Timtofly]

Not implying.
Paul taught that at the appearing of the Lord he would judge the living and the dead.


2Tim 4
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2 preach the word [as an official messenger]; be ready when the time is right and even when it is not [keep your sense of urgency, whether the opportunity seems favorable or unfavorable, whether convenient or inconvenient, whether welcome or unwelcome]; correct [those who err in doctrine or behavior], warn [those who sin], exhort and encourage [those who are growing toward spiritual maturity], with inexhaustible patience and [faithful] teaching. 3 For the time will come when people will not tolerate sound doctrine and accurate instruction [that challenges them with God’s truth]; but wanting to have their ears tickled [with something pleasing], they will accumulate for themselves [many] teachers [one after another, chosen] to satisfy their own desires and to support the errors they hold, 4 and will turn their ears away from the truth and will wander off into myths and man-made fictions [and will accept the unacceptable]. 5 But as for you, be clear-headed in every situation [stay calm and cool and steady], endure every hardship [without flinching], do the work of an evangelist, fulfill [the duties of] your ministry.

6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure [from this world] is at hand and I will soon go free. 7 I have fought the good and worthy and noble fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith [firmly guarding the gospel against error]. 8 In the future there is reserved for me the [victor’s] crown of righteousness [for being right with God and doing right], which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that [great] day—and not to me only, but also to all those who have loved and longed for and welcomed His appearing.


1Pet 4
3 For the time already past is [more than] enough for doing what the [unsaved] Gentiles like to do—living [unrestrained as you have done] in a course of [shameless] sensuality, lusts, drunkenness, carousing, drinking parties, and wanton idolatries. 4 In [connection with] all this, they [the unbelievers] are resentful and surprised that you do not [think like them, value their values and] run [hand in hand] with them into the same excesses of dissipation and immoral freedom, and they criticize and abuse and ridicule you and make fun of your values. 5 But they will [have to] give an account to Him who is ready to judge and pass sentence on the living and the dead.

I already pointed out that is not the physical dead. You must have missed that point.

The sheep and goats are not resurrected from the dead.

The wheat and tares are not resurrected from the dead.

You are implying Paul meant those physically dead.

Paul would not contradict what Jesus literally declared in the Gospels.

 

[jeffweeder]

I already pointed out that is not the physical dead. You must have missed that point.

What dead are you talking about?

 

[Truth7t7]

Wrong.

The very reason you aren't taken seriously by many, as you deny a very basic scripture showing "Literal" fire in destruction "Basic"

Read that verb tense below, When Jesus returns and is "Revealed" its "Fire Time"!

"Destroyed Them All"

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[ewq1938]

The very reason you aren't taken seriously by many, as you deny a very basic scripture showing "Literal" fire in destruction "Basic"

Read that verb tense below, When Jesus returns and is "Revealed" its "Fire Time"!

"Destroyed Them All"

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Anyone who knows the story of Lot knows your interpretation is wrong.