Another simple disproof of Amil: No more sea

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jeffweeder

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Well, at least you acknowledge the point.
I was not acknowledging your point.
He was addressing every one of them in the church...v3
Paul is speaking of those troubling the church, not of those who don't care one way or the other about the church.
All of us to some degree have things we need to endure and persevere with.
Against all those gathered to make war against Him and His saints.
The GWT is Gods righteous judgment, All will be there to receive their eternal resting place good or bad.
True all judgment of God is final and never changes. He will make that judgment after this heaven and earth is burnt up and flees from His face. Which is after the thousand years of Christ's earthly reign expires.

Paul is saying this final eternal judgment takes place when the Lord comes to glorify us.
That is the second coming which is after the millennium.

5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day
 

robert derrick

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I was not acknowledging your point.
Well, it's certainly the first time you've bothered mentioning it.

What? Is it like a pride thing with you, to not even acknowledge what others say? You're proud of not hearing anything you don't like?

All of us to some degree have things we need to endure and persevere with.

And not all unbelievers, to any degree, desire nor care enough to persecute and trouble others, whether religious or not.

Your view of all unbelievers thinking of ways to do harm to others, especially Christians, is dystopian, and is the same attitude of the Pharisees, that slew the Lord, because He wasn't like them.

Guess what. Most believers just want to be left alone to live their own lives as best they can, and God gives them that right, and will judge them at the last day. But in the meantime, the Lord Himself and His resurrected saints, will be personally ministering to such as them during His earthly reign.

And I also wouldn't want someone with your spirit knocking on my door.

This love of wrath of yours is not healthy.

The GWT is Gods righteous judgment, All will be there to receive their eternal resting place good or bad.
True, when the thousand years of the Lord's reign have expired, and after the old heaven and earth flee away from God's face.

Paul is saying this final eternal judgment takes place when the Lord comes to glorify us.
That is the second coming which is after the millennium.
Nope.

For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you,
True, The Lord will come again to receive His own unto Himself, and then first destroy them going out of their way to Armageddon, to continue making war with Him and His saints.

Then He will move on to executing the goats left alive, and then go on to ruling them neighborly sheep still alive.

Someone simply not agreeing with us, is not 'distress'. That's just childish pettiness on our part.

Both your judgement that Jesus and His saints can't rule the whole earth in peace with true law and order, nor that there are any neighborly unbelievers on earth, is false.

At the resurrection of the rest of the dead, will all them not found in the Lamb's book of life, be cast into the LOF, and those abundance of souls harvested during His reign, will be found in His book, and join His glorified saints bodily resurrected in the first resurrection one thousand years before.

The first resurrection at His coming again, is all saints, and the next resurrection of the rest of the dead, is part saints, and part wicked:

...and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
 

WPM

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Well, it's certainly the first time you've bothered mentioning it.

What? Is it like a pride thing with you, to not even acknowledge what others say? You're proud of not hearing anything you don't like?



And not all unbelievers, to any degree, desire nor care enough to persecute and trouble others, whether religious or not.

Your view of all unbelievers thinking of ways to do harm to others, especially Christians, is dystopian, and is the same attitude of the Pharisees, that slew the Lord, because He wasn't like them.

Guess what. Most believers just want to be left alone to live their own lives as best they can, and God gives them that right, and will judge them at the last day. But in the meantime, the Lord Himself and His resurrected saints, will be personally ministering to such as them during His earthly reign.

And I also wouldn't want someone with your spirit knocking on my door.

This love of wrath of yours is not healthy.


True, when the thousand years of the Lord's reign have expired, and after the old heaven and earth flee away from God's face.


Nope.


True, The Lord will come again to receive His own unto Himself, and then first destroy them going out of their way to Armageddon, to continue making war with Him and His saints.

Then He will move on to executing the goats left alive, and then go on to ruling them neighborly sheep still alive.

Someone simply not agreeing with us, is not 'distress'. That's just childish pettiness on our part.

Both your judgement that Jesus and His saints can't rule the whole earth in peace with true law and order, nor that there are any neighborly unbelievers on earth, is false.

At the resurrection of the rest of the dead, will all them not found in the Lamb's book of life, be cast into the LOF, and those abundance of souls harvested during His reign, will be found in His book, and join His glorified saints bodily resurrected in the first resurrection one thousand years before.

The first resurrection at His coming again, is all saints, and the next resurrection of the rest of the dead, is part saints, and part wicked:

...and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Everyone else has pride apart from you. You need to look in the mirror.

Jeff is a humble man of God.
 

robert derrick

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Everyone else has pride apart from you. You need to look in the mirror.

Jeff is a humble man of God.
Oh, well then. I agree with everything he says now.

And since you know him, then I agree with everything you say too.

There, debate over with. You humble men of god win again.

And having seen you act like children, when completely disagreed with, I'm quite sure you'll be happy children while being completely agreed with.
 

jeffweeder

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Well, it's certainly the first time you've bothered mentioning it.

What? Is it like a pride thing with you, to not even acknowledge what others say? You're proud of not hearing anything you don't like?



And not all unbelievers, to any degree, desire nor care enough to persecute and trouble others, whether religious or not.

Your view of all unbelievers thinking of ways to do harm to others, especially Christians, is dystopian, and is the same attitude of the Pharisees, that slew the Lord, because He wasn't like them.

Guess what. Most believers just want to be left alone to live their own lives as best they can, and God gives them that right, and will judge them at the last day. But in the meantime, the Lord Himself and His resurrected saints, will be personally ministering to such as them during His earthly reign.

And I also wouldn't want someone with your spirit knocking on my door.

This love of wrath of yours is not healthy.


True, when the thousand years of the Lord's reign have expired, and after the old heaven and earth flee away from God's face.


Nope.


True, The Lord will come again to receive His own unto Himself, and then first destroy them going out of their way to Armageddon, to continue making war with Him and His saints.

Then He will move on to executing the goats left alive, and then go on to ruling them neighborly sheep still alive.

Someone simply not agreeing with us, is not 'distress'. That's just childish pettiness on our part.

Both your judgement that Jesus and His saints can't rule the whole earth in peace with true law and order, nor that there are any neighborly unbelievers on earth, is false.

At the resurrection of the rest of the dead, will all them not found in the Lamb's book of life, be cast into the LOF, and those abundance of souls harvested during His reign, will be found in His book, and join His glorified saints bodily resurrected in the first resurrection one thousand years before.

The first resurrection at His coming again, is all saints, and the next resurrection of the rest of the dead, is part saints, and part wicked:

...and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
:cold:
Seeing as your twisting me and everything I am saying. the conversation is over.
 

ewq1938

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I was not acknowledging your point.
He was addressing every one of them in the church...v3

All of us to some degree have things we need to endure and persevere with.

The GWT is Gods righteous judgment, All will be there to receive their eternal resting place good or bad.


Paul is saying this final eternal judgment takes place when the Lord comes to glorify us.
That is the second coming which is after the millennium.

5 This is a positive proof of the righteous judgment of God [a sign of His fair verdict], so that you will be considered worthy of His kingdom, for which indeed you are suffering. 6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day


This completely ignores the verb tenses involved. Why support a belief system that does that? Two different days are being discussed, one with present tense verses happening THAT DAY, and a different day using FUTURE tense verb. You need to learn to read it in Greek else you will misunderstand it as you currently do. You've been told about the verb tenses but you continue in error. That is your choice.
 

jeffweeder

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This completely ignores the verb tenses involved. Why support a belief system that does that? Two different days are being discussed, one with present tense verses happening THAT DAY, and a different day using FUTURE tense verb. You need to learn to read it in Greek else you will misunderstand it as you currently do. You've been told about the verb tenses but you continue in error. That is your choice.
As I pointed out you ignore the obvious.
That day = the day we are glorified which means that day is the Lord's future appearing in a flame of fire


Amp
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with distress those who distress you, 7 and to give relief to you who are so distressed and to us as well when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day

NASB
6 For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day,

NIV

6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people

NET
6 For it is right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to you who are being afflicted to give rest together with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels. 8 With flaming fire he will mete out punishment on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will undergo the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 when he comes to be glorified among his saints and admired on that day among all who have believed
 
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ewq1938

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As I pointed out you ignore the obvious.


No, I have commented on what you present. You are the one who ignores the obvious, and the verb tenses. Your doctrine is built on lies, and you are unable to face them so you deflect constantly. This is telling and will warn people away from such verb-tense ignoring beliefs.
 

jeffweeder

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No, I have commented on what you present. You are the one who ignores the obvious, and the verb tenses. Your doctrine is built on lies, and you are unable to face them so you deflect constantly. This is telling and will warn people away from such verb-tense ignoring beliefs.
What Bible version did you use ewq ?
 

jeffweeder

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KJV
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


Study the underlined in v 7 and 9
 
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ewq1938

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What Bible version did you use in post 144 Lol

KJV.
KJV
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


Study the underlined in v 7 and 9


You need to study it in Greek to understand that verse 9 and 10 are future events to the events spoken prior in 7-8.
 

jeffweeder

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KJV.



You need to study it in Greek to understand that verse 9 and 10 are future events to the events spoken prior in 7-8.
Give it up brother.

When Jesus is revealed from heaven in v7 we shall all be like him for we shall see him as he is...having a glorious body like his glorious body... v9.

1Jn 3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Phill 3
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.



1cor 15
51 Listen very carefully, I tell you a mystery [a secret truth decreed by God and previously hidden, but now revealed]; we will not all sleep [in death], but we will all be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed], 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at [the sound of] the last trumpet call. For a trumpet will sound, and the dead [who believed in Christ] will be raised imperishable, and we will be [completely] changed [wondrously transformed]. 53 For this perishable [part of us] must put on the imperishable [nature], and this mortal [part of us that is capable of dying] must put on immortality [which is freedom from death]. 54 And when this perishable puts on the imperishable, and this mortal puts on immortality, then the Scripture will be fulfilled that says, “Death is swallowed up in victory (vanquished forever).


1thess 4
15 For we say this to you by the Lord’s [own] word, that we who are still alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will in no way precede [into His presence] those [believers] who have fallen asleep [in death]. 16 For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the [blast of the] trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain [on the earth] will simultaneously be caught up (raptured) together with them [the resurrected ones] in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord! 18 Therefore comfort and encourage one another with these words [concerning our reunion with believers who have died].
 
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ewq1938

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Give it up brother.


You should give up ignoring and avoiding Greek verb tenses and accept the truth about the passage. Paul places some things in the present tense to be happening at the second coming and he places other things in a future tense for things NOT HAPPENING at the second coming. This is basic practice for proper bible study. Just ignoring all of this in favor of doctrinal bias is just plain lazy and wrong. It's intellectual dishonesty at minimum.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

This verb is in the present tense in the Greek manuscripts so this “taking vengeance” happens during the second coming.

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

“shall be punished” is in the FUTURE TENSE which means that the everlasting destruction ie: GWTJ/LOF is NOT happening at the second coming but is a FUTURE event after the second coming just as Premill teaches and exactly opposite of what Amill teaches.

https://biblehub. com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/1-9.htm

You can verify in the link above that the verb tisousin is in the future tense: verb tense: future indicative active.

Amill will AVOID this fact as much as possible because it destroys the false teachings it espouses!
 

jeffweeder

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You should give up ignoring and avoiding Greek verb tenses and accept the truth about the passage. Paul places some things in the present tense to be happening at the second coming and he places other things in a future tense for things NOT HAPPENING at the second coming. This is basic practice for proper bible study. Just ignoring all of this in favor of doctrinal bias is just plain lazy and wrong. It's intellectual dishonesty at minimum.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

This verb is in the present tense in the Greek manuscripts so this “taking vengeance” happens during the second coming.

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

“shall be punished” is in the FUTURE TENSE which means that the everlasting destruction ie: GWTJ/LOF is NOT happening at the second coming but is a FUTURE event after the second coming just as Premill teaches and exactly opposite of what Amill teaches.

https://biblehub. com/interlinear/2_thessalonians/1-9.htm

You can verify in the link above that the verb tisousin is in the future tense: verb tense: future indicative active.

Amill will AVOID this fact as much as possible because it destroys the false teachings it espouses!
Your link doesn't work Lol, just like your argument. What of the "shall " used in x7 and 10??? That "shall" links eternal vengeance and glorification that shall happen when the lord appears.

I am done discussing this.






'
 

ewq1938

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Your link doesn't work Lol, just like your argument. What of the "shall " used in x7 and 10??? That "shall" links eternal vengeance and glorification that shall happen when the lord appears.

I am done discussing this.

You never started it in earnest. You can't understand the passage until you read and study it in Greek. You need to take a basic course in Greek, then learn to look up verb tenses. Learn more, teach less. If you won't accept the verb tenses and when the various events happen, then you have no hope of true biblical understanding.
 

Truth7t7

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KJV
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.


Study the underlined in v 7 and 9
I Agree 100% Jeff

It's the Ole you can take a horse to water saying, and there are plenty of thirsty horses out there

Jesus Is The Lord
 
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