Anti-reformers month

[theefaith]

no. She isnt.

you’re saying Jesus is not our salvation???

 

[amadeus]

Got it! See making progress

Progress would be one step at the time toward the Light!

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

you’re saying Jesus is not our salvation???

im saying mary was a sinner the same as the rest of us.

 

[Brakelite]

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Truth is revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles) Jude 1:3 then proposed by the church! Matt 28:19

Christ and His church are one!

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

Dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 Micah 4:1 fulfilled in matt 5:14

matt 16:18-19 shall not prevail
Matt 18:17 hear the truth from the church
1 Tim 3:15 the church is the pillar and ground of truth.

Faith ascents & never protests or rebels!
Spiritual Pride protests & is always in rebellion

The nature of spiritual pride is rebellion!
Spiritual pride must protest, and must be right!

Christ and His one true church cannot be right or my self-righteous personal interpretation base on spiritual pride and private judgement must be wrong, and that is unacceptable!

Truth must be revealed by God, and taught by the church, proposed for our belief, we must be instructed!
Matt 28:19 Lk 1:4 Acts 8:31 Lk 10:16 Jn 21:17 Jn 16:13 acts 2:42


Nature of doctrine:

Truth or doctrine MUST be Revealed by God And Proposed by the church for belief, not spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
Claim: “scripture alone”
It’s really just the ugly repugnant pride!
It’s no faith at all only spiritual pride and self-righteous private judgement!
They Hope in creatures not in God!

It is unlawful to refuse to accept a truth revealed by God!

Matt 28:19 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Faith hope and charity! 1 cor 13:13
Three are eternal, and the greatest is charity!
“Faith alone”? Never faith, hope, & charity are inseparable!
If salvation was by faith alone then the greatest would be faith, but as even “all faith“ without charity avails nothing! 1 cor 13:2

Not in any form of acknowledging did you actually address what I said, even though you quoted me. That tells me you are senseless to anyone else's thoughts or any facts that would disagree with your theories.

 

[Taken]

Taken - question:
Why do YOU TRUST, the "doctrines of men that are NOT SCRIPTURAL" over "Jesus' Doctrines IN Scripture"?

-theefaith answer- Not over but the same truths revealed by God in Christ and taught by the church or the apostles

Question-
How do you know your church is teaching you Jesus’ SAME TRUTHS ?

 

[Taken]

physical life from carnal earthly fathers

spiritual life from our spiritual fathers the apostles

Jn 20:21-23
Jn 15:1-5 christ in union with his apostles bringing forth the fruit (the salvation of souls / the people)
Jn 1:16-17 life of grace
Jn 10:10 life or grace more abundantly

Disagree-
An earthly man teaches Spiritual life FROM Gods SEED is possible.
Only God Himself quickens an earthly man with Gods Seed, giving the man Spiritual Life.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Paul submitted to these rituals as required

Some rituals may be required, but they do not make you righteous. We know that because Paul used the example of Abraham who was made righteous entirely by his faith apart from his works. This is the very point that escapes the Catholics.

It’s not a do it yourself religion!

God provides the faith through which one believes and trusts God and is justified.
No Catholic priests required.

It’s not a bible study!

I don't know why you keep saying this. But I suspect it's because the Catholic overlords frown on it's members being Bereans and checking out what they say against the scriptures for themselves. Which is probably why you don't get this.

Not by “faith alone”

That's right.
For clarity we're talking about "righteousness apart from works" Romans 4:6.
"Faith alone" is James' argument (James 2:24). That's a different argument. And something perhaps the Catholic church actually gets right, lol!

“Faith alone” not biblical

It is Biblical.
But that's another argument.
One we're not addressing here.

 

[theefaith]

im saying mary was a sinner the same as the rest of us.

Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary!
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun. Immaculate purity

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!

A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

A sinner would be an evil tree with evil fruit, but the fruit of Mary is salvation!

Mary brings in the good fruits of our redemption and salvation!


Proving Mary most holy, ever virgin mother of God & mother of our salvation is not a sinner!

Lk 1:28 Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee, blessed art thou among women.

How can God fill a sinner with grace, and remain a sinner?
Hail Mary full of grace!

How can the Lord be with sinner?
The lord is with thee!

How can sinner be blessed!
Blessed art thou, and all generations shall call me blessed!

Lk 1: 43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

How can a sinner be the mother of God?

Lk 1: 45 And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.

How could sinner be faithful?

Lk 1: 46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,

How could a sinner magnify the Lord?

Lk 1:48 For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.

How could sinner be humble?

Lk 1:49 For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

How could sinner be the immaculate conception and the have the Holy Spirit accomplish the Miraculous conception of Jesus in Her?

Matt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

How could sinner be a perpetual Virgin bringing forth the savior of the world?

Jn 19:27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

How could sinner be our spiritual mother?

Lk 2:30 I have seen my salvation!

How could a sinner be the mother of our salvation?

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Holy mother of God!

Lk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

Biblical principle:
Anything Consecrated to God must be pure and used only for the purpose of serving God!

See exodus: the ark of the covenant, everything used in the temple etc.

 

[theefaith]

Not in any form of acknowledging did you actually address what I said, even though you quoted me. That tells me you are senseless to anyone else's thoughts or any facts that would disagree with your theories.

What’s your question

 

[theefaith]

Disagree-
An earthly man teaches Spiritual life FROM Gods SEED is possible.
Only God Himself quickens an earthly man with Gods Seed, giving the man Spiritual Life.

No spiritual life of grace without baptism
Ez 36:25-27

 

[theefaith]

Some rituals may be required,

Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles

Constant teaching of the apostles in the church of Jesus Christ

Church fathers

A) "It does not suffice to believe. He who believes and is not yet baptized, but is only a Catechumen, has not yet fully acquired salvation." St. Thomas Aquinas

B) "Now, even the Catechumen believes in the Cross of the Lord Jesus, but unless he be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, he cannot receive remission of his sins nor the gift of spiritual grace." St. Ambrose

C) "Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified. If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent

D)
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
St. AUGUSTINE

E) “As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
JUSTIN MARTYR

TERTULLIAN
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

“Without baptism, salvation is attainable by none” (ibid., 12).

ORIGEN
“It is not possible to receive forgiveness of sins without baptism” (Exhortation to the Martyrs 30 [A.D. 235]).

CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation.

St. AUGUSTINE
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).

POPE LEO I
“And because of the transgression of the first man, the whole stock of the human race was tainted; no one can be set free from the state of the old Adam save through Christ’s sacrament of baptism, in which there are no distinctions between the reborn, as the apostle [Paul] says, ‘For as many of you as were baptized in Christ did put on Christ; there is neither Jew nor Greek . . . ‘ [Gal. 3:27–28]” (Letters 15:10[11] [A.D. 445]).

FULGENTIUS OF RUSPE
“From that time at which our Savior said, ‘If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5], no one can, without the sacrament of baptism, except those who, in the Catholic Church, without baptism, pour out their blood for Christ, receive the kingdom of heaven and life eternal” (The Rule of Faith 43 [A.D. 524]).

Irenaeus
He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; INFANTS, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an INFANT for INFANTS, sanctifying INFANTS; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D.215]).

Origen
THE CHURCH RECEIVED FROM THE APOSTLES the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The APOSTLES, to whom were committed the secrets of divine sacraments, knew there is in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian
As to what pertains to the case of INFANTS: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

Augustine
It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).

Faith and baptism Mk 16:16 acts 2:38-39 acts 8:36-37 1 pet 3:20-21

 

[GodsGrace]

Socialism / naturalism is the fruit of the reformation! As well as modern atheism: reason apart from revealed Divine faith!
And
Fundamentalism: faith apart from reason!

These are the modern errors and the fruits of the so called reformation!

All of these are rebelling against Christ and his church, and against family, society, and civil government!
And again all proper authority!

The reformation is only an extension of Satan’s rebellion against God, Christ and His holy church!

The so called reformation is an evil tree putting forth Posionous fruit!

Doctrines of devils leading to rebellion against all Divinely revealed authority!

Protestant rebellion against the divinely instituted authority of the church!
Fundamentalist rebellion against reason!
Atheist rebellion against faith!
Socialism rebellion against marrige, and family, the fabric of society!
Communism rebellion against the divinely instituted authority of civil government, God given rights, and private property!

All the bitter fruits of the so called reformation! Better known as the great rebellion!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Lk 1:38 And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

Mary brought forth the good fruit of salvation!

QUOD APOSTOLICI MUNERIS
ENCYCLICAL OF POPE LEO XIII
ON SOCIALISM

(Caused by the reformation)

The boldness of these bad men, which day by day more and more threatens civil society with destruction, and strikes the souls of all with anxiety and fear, finds its cause and origin in those poisonous doctrines which, spread abroad in former times among the people, like evil seed bore in due time such fatal fruit. For you know, venerable brethren, that that most deadly war which from the sixteenth century down has been waged by innovators against the Catholic faith, and which has grown in intensity up to today, had for its object to subvert all revelation, and overthrow the supernatural order, that thus the way might be opened for the discoveries, or rather the hallucinations, of reason alone.

I agree with much of what you say...
I think I told you on a different site that you should write a book!

My question,,,
How did the reformation cause socialism?

 

[theefaith]

I agree with much of what you say...
I think I told you on a different site that you should write a book!

My question,,,
How did the reformation cause socialism?

the rejection of the authority of the church founded by Christ leads to the rejection of all authority

All of these are rebelling against Christ and his church, and against family, society, and civil government!
And again all proper authority!

Against private property and sound wage

the new world order is designed to destroy the old world order which was ordained by God, that’s a world without God or His church, that’s why marriage and the family are at the heart of the attack cos God ordained marriage as the basis for the family and the family is the fabric of society

Hope it helps

 

[GodsGrace]

the rejection of the authority of the church founded by Christ leads to the rejection of all authority

All of these are rebelling against Christ and his church, and against family, society, and civil government!
And again all proper authority!

Against private property and sound wage

the new world order is designed to destroy the old world order which was ordained by God, that’s a world without God or His church, that’s why marriage and the family are at the heart of the attack cos God ordained marriage as the basis for the family and the family is the fabric of society

Hope it helps

Yes, and I agree.

Just not sure about your connection with authority and socialism...
Socialism is very authoritative.

Although those who like it do seem to be against authority..

Except their own, of course.

 

[theefaith]

And the moment your church ceased to be subject to Christ by committing spiritual adultery with the Kings and queens and princes of Europe, and relying on their armies to conquer land and steal the riches of innocent citizens, was the day your church apostatized and became a lifeless tomb.


Whatever church was founded on Peter and the apostles, it isn't represented by that monstrosity in Rome, and hasn't been since the 6th century.

baseless accusations

 

[GodsGrace]

baseless accusations

Hmmm.
I don't believe they're baseless...

The church joined the governments and even Was the govt in some cases,,,

I don't condemn the CC but we cant deny the truth either.

 

[theefaith]

Hmmm.
I don't believe they're baseless...

The church joined the governments and even Was the govt in some cases,,,

I don't condemn the CC but we cant deny the truth either.

Christ is king and all must submit to and obey Him and His church His authorized representatives
The church proposes the truths revealed by God with the authority of Christ
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 4:5 Jn 15:1-5

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

the state has divine authority to execute justice

 

[theefaith]

To say it’s adultery to call a crusade and implore the kings aid to crush a heretical group like the Albigensian’s is simply a ridiculous accusation! Heresy is treason against God and it’s the duty of church and state to condemn and eliminate such things!

 

[Wrangler]

Heresy is treason against God and it’s the duty of church and state to condemn and eliminate such things!

Wow! Vengeance is theefaith's says the Lord?!

Sometimes I read your posts and think you must be an alien.

 

[theefaith]

Wow! Vengeance is theefaith's says the Lord?!

Sometimes I read your posts and think you must be an alien.

no I did not and you know it

I said the divine authority is to the church and the state