Any thoughts on this? No exploding heads please.

[amigo de christo]

You realize, right, that's not what I said?

Scripture quotes Enoch. The So-Called "book of Enoch" also contains the same quote. And everybody knows, I thought, that it wasn't written by Enoch, and contains factual errors?

What I said was, I don't consider it to be inspired Scripture. I've read it, a couple of times, and I don't see it to be Scripture.

Much love!

Men can do many things with scripture , even write a book they CLIAM as the book of ENOCH
when in truth it was not . I have read some of the other books they also took out of the bible
like second macc , and those other five books , and I can easily see why They were not included .
Sure they have some wisdom , yet also mens wisdom . It did not seem at all INSPIRED by GOD
as was the other sixty six books in that bible were . IT seems to me
at best men who had some knowledge of GOD wrote those books in order to perhaps
try and further instruct the church . I See mens wisdom in those books . ITS not the same as when i read
the original sixty six books . I have decided to stay ONLY IN THE BIBLE for my growth and learning .
Too many men wrote lots of things , and while truths were in some of them
Things which ought not to be were in them too . Just speaking the truth my friend .
I stay with the SIXTY SIX and they can keep the others .

 

[Mr E]

WHICH "sons of God"? New Testament or Old Testament? There is a difference. The Old Testament "sons of God", like in the Book of Job that appeared with Satan in front of God's Throne were the angels that rebelled with the devil. Likewise, the "sons of God" of Genesis 6 that took wives of flesh women were angels that rebelled with Satan.

In John 1:12, Christians are first called "sons of God". So what's the difference?

The difference is that in the 'world to come' we will inherit the "spiritual body" which Apostle Paul also called the "image of the heavenly" in 1 Corinthians 15. And just as the angels in God's Word that appeared to God's people, they were able to eat man's food and live upon this earth, and appeared with the image of 'man', even their angelic body made of spirit feeling like flesh. In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul even said that Jesus' body was made "a quickening spirit".

This is what the "sons of God" manifestation in the future is about. Those in the Faith on Jesus Christ are already called that, even though it is a term that is pointing to our future glorious state in the world to come. And that future state is linked to the TYPE of heavenly body the angels have...

Matt 22:30
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
KJV

Lord Jesus said that above. Many think He wasn't speaking that literally about our future state in the heavenly, yet He was speaking that literally, and Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15 with revealing the 'type' of body of the world the come, backs Lord Jesus up on that.

So that first part, you need to re-write, and probably refer to New Testament examples of that "sons of God" phrase.

The concept - 'sons of God' didn't magically change from Old Testament to New Testament. It was the testimony of Jesus that changed our understanding of what the term means. The meaning didn't change. Once true, always true. Jesus shone a light on the concept that we might see more clearly. Neither is it future vs past. It requires an understanding of spirit vs flesh. One is not the other, yet while apart, one is a part of the other.

 

[amigo de christo]

Is there any assurance that we even have a real copy? My understanding is that there are various versions with no real provenance.

Much love!

It would be like me reading that phrase about the book of jasher
then turning around and writing MY OWN COPY OF IT to pass it off as the real deal .
Men do as men do but as for me , I IS STICKING with the sixty six . THAT I KNOW GOD INSPIRED .

 

[Mr E]

Men can do many things with scripture , even write a book they CLIAM as the book of ENOCH
when in truth it was not . I have read some of the other books they also took out of the bible
like second macc , and those other five books , and I can easily see why They were not included .
Sure they have some wisdom , yet also mens wisdom . It did not seem at all INSPIRED by GOD
as was the other sixty six books in that bible were . IT seems to me
at best men who had some knowledge of GOD wrote those books in order to perhaps
try and further instruct the church . I See mens wisdom in those books . ITS not the same as when i read
the original sixty six books . I have decided to stay ONLY IN THE BIBLE for my growth and learning .
Too many men wrote lots of things , and while truths were in some of them
Things which ought not to be were in them too . Just speaking the truth my friend .
I stay with the SIXTY SIX and they can keep the others .

Sounds sticky.

You realize that until 1684, 'the Bible' had 80 books, right?

80

Maybe you are Catholic? Maybe you are okay with the Vatican telling you what you should and shouldn't be reading?

 

[amigo de christo]

Sounds sticky.

You realize that until 1684, 'the Bible' had 80 books, right?

80

Maybe you are Catholic? Maybe you are okay with the Vatican telling you what you should and shouldn't be reading?

It was the CC that ADDED the other books into the canon . They called them secondary .
I see why they were removed . I sure hope you dont read gospels like the gosple of thomas
and other things . I actually sat down and tried to read that gospel and got so depressed i had to close the thing .
YET always am i filled when i read the books IN that bible . Yet none of those other books
could ever once do that for me . My advice is , OPEN BIBLE and STAYGLUED IN BIBLE .

 

[Mr E]

Is there any assurance that we even have a real copy? My understanding is that there are various versions with no real provenance.

Much love!

There is actually better evidence for the book of Jasher being 'a real copy' than there is for the gospels in that there is independent source material that affirms the contents of Jasher that was preserved among the Dead Sea Scrolls library that predates the time of Christ.

 

[Davy]

The concept - 'sons of God' didn't magically change from Old Testament to New Testament. It was the testimony of Jesus that changed our understanding of what the term means. The meaning didn't change. Once true, always true. Jesus shone a light on the concept that we might see more clearly. Neither is it future vs past. It requires an understanding of spirit vs flesh. One is not the other, yet while apart, one is a part of the other.

No the 'concept' of what the "sons of God" state means did not change, because it ALWAYS points to the 'heavenly state' of the angelic 'BODY', which Apostle Paul described as a "spiritual body" for the world to come regarding us.

But just WHO Scripture points to using that "sons of God" phrase DID CHANGE.

And NO, the spirit part is NOT part of the flesh. That is the Jew's error from staying in the Old Testament only. Jesus declared that if our flesh body is killed, our soul continues on, and thus so does our spirit, and New Testament Scripture reveals. Thus The New Testament teaches more about the spirit body of the world to come whereas the Old Testament does not.

And a Christian had better make sure they know the difference between the "sons of God" that appeared WITH SATAN before God's throne per the Book of Job...

Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
KJV

Job 2:1
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
KJV

Anyone trying to say those "sons of God" above were flesh men are complete idiots.

 

[Mr E]

It was the CC that ADDED the other books into the canon . They called them secondary .
I see why they were removed . I sure hope you dont read gospels like the gosple of thomas
and other things . I actually sat down and tried to read that gospel and got so depressed i had to close the thing .
YET always am i filled when i read the books IN that bible . Yet none of those other books
could ever once do that for me . My advice is , OPEN BIBLE and STAYGLUED IN BIBLE .

Respectfully, so please don't take this in a personal way-- but this is an approach from ignorance. There are people who would say the same as you regarding the book of Revelation, for example. They don't appreciate or understand the things it is talking about, or the manner of speaking, or the associations, symbolism, and history-- so it frustrates (and depresses) them.

Secondly- in determining what books were included and what books were excluded-- this was decided by men who had their own personal and theological biases built in. They had their own ideas, opinions and sense of duty-- sense of right and wrong. Their primary measuring stick was to ensure that everything they included agreed with what they already thought. That should scare you.

 

[amigo de christo]

Respectfully, so please don't take this in a personal way-- but this is an approach from ignorance. There are people who would say the same as you regarding the book of Revelation, for example. They don't appreciate or understand the things it is talking about, or the manner of speaking, or the associations, symbolism, and history-- so it frustrates (and depresses) them.

Secondly- in determining what books were included and what books were excluded-- this was decided by men who had their own personal and theological biases built in. They had their own ideas, opinions and sense of duty-- sense of right and wrong. Their primary measuring stick was to ensure that everything they included agreed with what they already thought. That should scare you.

Even in the beginning i had no idea of what many things meant in revelation . Still dont know it all .
YET it never once depressed or depresses me to read it . Its always been a blessing to read it and every other book
in that bible even if i dont understand all things . YET , not the same with those other books .
And now i know why that is . ONE was inspired of GOD and the other of men . Not the same my friend .

 

[Mr E]

And a Christian had better make sure they know the difference between the "sons of God" that appeared WITH SATAN before God's throne per the Book of Job...

Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
KJV

Job 2:1
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
KJV

Anyone trying to say those "sons of God" above were flesh men are complete idiots.

This is the passage that @marks was referring to when he mentioned ben, or baniym elohiym- (sons of elohiym) and that's a great place to start, for anyone seeking understanding.

But you said--

And a Christian had better make sure they know the difference between the "sons of God" that appeared WITH SATAN before God's throne per the Book of Job...

The difference between that reference--- and what??? You think there are two kinds of sons of God?

 

[Mr E]

Even in the beginning i had no idea of what many things meant in revelation . Still dont know it all .
YET it never once depressed or depresses me to read it . Its always been a blessing to read it and every other book
in that bible even if i dont understand all things . YET , not the same with those other books .
And now i know why that is . ONE was inspired of GOD and the other of men . Not the same my friend .

And the measuring stick you use is your feelings. You feel happy? -It's inspired. You feel depressed? It's of the devil?

All scripture is inspired by God. And men decided what they would consider scripture.

You need a better measuring stick. Your feelings are too fickle to be your guide.

 

[Wrangler]

yesterday, you insisted, for hours, sons of God there meant fallen angels!
Then that led to me gathering all the verses that showed men as sons of God and children of God and showing that there were many, many more of those than the 3 verses men say show fallen angels being called sons of God

We love our brother Mike. (Just kidding, @marks). He means well, although he struggles to be corrected on even small matters.

I think we all know 'sons of God' is an expression referring to fallen angels. However, there is more than one sense of words OR in this case, more than one sense of the expression.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Even in the beginning i had no idea of what many things meant in revelation . Still dont know it all .
YET it never once depressed or depresses me to read it . Its always been a blessing to read it and every other book
in that bible even if i dont understand all things . YET , not the same with those other books .
And now i know why that is . ONE was inspired of GOD and the other of men . Not the same my friend .

More bible reads. Love reading the Bible. Brings so much joy and peace. Let the Lord be praised.

 

[David in NJ]

No the 'concept' of what the "sons of God" state means did not change, because it ALWAYS points to the 'heavenly state' of the angelic 'BODY', which Apostle Paul described as a "spiritual body" for the world to come regarding us.

But just WHO Scripture points to using that "sons of God" phrase DID CHANGE.

And NO, the spirit part is NOT part of the flesh. That is the Jew's error from staying in the Old Testament only. Jesus declared that if our flesh body is killed, our soul continues on, and thus so does our spirit, and New Testament Scripture reveals. Thus The New Testament teaches more about the spirit body of the world to come whereas the Old Testament does not.

And a Christian had better make sure they know the difference between the "sons of God" that appeared WITH SATAN before God's throne per the Book of Job...

Job 1:6
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
KJV

Job 2:1
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
KJV

Anyone trying to say those "sons of God" above were flesh men are complete idiots.

Did satan bring with him those 'sons of God'?

Notice how the 'sons of God' are separated from satan in the context and satan enters in "among them".

So a clear distinction is made here for our understanding.

Job 2:1
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
KJV

 

[Mr E]

Did satan bring with him those 'sons of God'?

Notice how the 'sons of God' are separated from satan in the context and satan enters in "among them".

So a clear distinction is made here for our understanding.

Job 2:1
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
KJV

You don't think Satan was a son of God?

 

[marks]

We love our brother Mike. (Just kidding, @marks). He means well, although he struggles to be corrected on even small matters.

I think we all know 'sons of God' is an expression referring to fallen angels. However, there is more than one sense of words OR in this case, more than one sense of the expression.

I can see someone is stuggling!

Just learn what the words mean Biblically, and then believe what you read, and you'll be OK.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Even in the beginning i had no idea of what many things meant in revelation . Still dont know it all .
YET it never once depressed or depresses me to read it . Its always been a blessing to read it and every other book
in that bible even if i dont understand all things . YET , not the same with those other books .
And now i know why that is . ONE was inspired of GOD and the other of men . Not the same my friend .

It doesn’t depress you to read it because “she smiles and doesn’t fear the future.” I don’t know where that is exactly but it describes a wise wife, which when I read it recently I saw it is not really about just womenfolk OR about literally sewing clothing and such. There’s even a verse in it about a wise woman buying a field, which has its counterpart in the NT with a selling all you have to buy a field.

 

[David in NJ]

You don't think Satan was a son of God?

Of course satan was a son of God, that was not the question posed at all.

The relevance of God breathed(Holy Spirit inspired) Scripture is the order of events that take place for our understanding;
and
not only the order of events but the clear distinction of characters in the Story being presented to us = "to whom the ends of this age has come."

 

[Davy]

Did satan bring with him those 'sons of God'?

Your grammar is faulty.

Job 2:1
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
KJV


Likewise, the Book of Jude points to what the "sons of God" (Satan's angels) did in Genesis 6 to cause God to bring a flood to destroy their hybrid offspring, the giants...

Jude 6-7
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
KJV

 

[David in NJ]

Your grammar is faulty.

Job 2:1
2 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.
KJV

lol = love it when people fall upon the sword of grammar correction

God's word usage and placement is not in error but a person's understanding of what was said can be............

Correct grammar usage/application = please return to the question = did satan bring with himself the "sons of God"? = according to the Scriptural grammar usage.