Anybody out there worried about the U.S. presidential election?

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Lunar

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Nov 23, 2007
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You're taking a system in Europe and trying to apply it to America where the country is as big as the entire continent put together and then tell me it doesn't cost? We have far and away the largest budget and yet we either don't have these programs or have a fraction of them in place at best - talking single digit percentages.In man's ignorance to supposedly want to help others, he seems to ignore the parts that hurt the rest. I don't know where you folks plan to get the trillions of dollars it will take to run a healthcare program from. I don't know when you're gonna find the $800 going on $900 BILLION dollars to combat world poverty from.
I made this point before, but you seem to have ignored it, so I'll make it again. Yes, a health care system will cost more than in Europe because it has to support more people. But precisely because we have more people, we have, in the exact same proportion, more tax revenue. The cost-per-person of providing health care doesn't increase, unless you adopt an inefficient system like the one the US has. There's no reason we can't do in the U.S. what is being done in Denmark or Sweden.(Denver)
I've never heard anyone rally around the cry "steal from the poor and give to the poor" but that certainly seems to be happening now.
The socialistic and pseudo-socialistic European countries have, almost without exception, higher standards of living and are, according to polls, happier than in the United States. You make it sound as though the poor are beaten down by socialism, but they are the ones who benefit from it the most, because it ensures them basic goods and services like health care that millions of people can't get in the US. That is what socialism is about - ensuring a certain standard of living for people. The money that gets taken away through taxes doesn't go into a black hole, it comes back to them in form of government services.You can kick and scream about it all you want, but the people in the countries that actually have these policies are both very happy with it, and have the highest standards of living and happiness rates in the world, so I really don't know what you are afraid of. The aversion to socialism is completely unfounded, a holdover from ridiculous paradigms of decades past like the red scare.
 

Letsgofishing

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I'm going to tick everybody off and say GO OBAMA but that would tick everybody off so I'm going to vote for a different persona person more wisemore matureless muslimGO ME!!!thats right folks, Ryan Fitz, also known as Letsgofishing, is running for presidentcampaign srategy number 1- Take all the troops out of iraq and invade canada, once canada is invaded turn it into a huge marijuanna field. strategy #2- offer this marijuanna to iraq, iran, afganistan, north Korea, and sweden* and once there high, BOMB The heck out of them!!!!!!!!strategy #3-now that weve won the war on terror change america into a communist democratic state, in where you vote, and I don't pay any attention to the outcome and do what I want to do.strategy 4-use my communistic powers and build a huge indistructible dome on top of America.This will get rid of wars, immigration, and global warmingstrategy 5- seeing as where in a huge Dome Global warming has no effect on us, meaning we can use it as a weapon. Mess with us we mess with your atmospherestrategy 6- we could also in times of war burn canada, now a huge marijuanna field and get the whole world high ( except for us were in the dome)strategy 7- retire and get out of America before somebody shoots me. Vote Fitz to presidency.and you thought Ron Paul was sweet!!* you might be wondering why bomb sweden, what has sweden done to us. Well heres why sweden I hate sweden. I hate reindeer. Heck if I wasn't christian I'de hate you!!!PS- This isn't serious, in case your forgiven wretch
smile.gif
 

MWM

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I shall be Mr. Fitz's vice-CommunistDictatorCanadianMJBurningSwedenBomber!!!If that is okay with Mr. Fitz, however
 

HammerStone

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I made this point before, but you seem to have ignored it, so I'll make it again. Yes, a health care system will cost more than in Europe because it has to support more people. But precisely because we have more people, we have, in the exact same proportion, more tax revenue. The cost-per-person of providing health care doesn't increase, unless you adopt an inefficient system like the one the US has. There's no reason we can't do in the U.S. what is being done in Denmark or Sweden.
And your point is a terrible one with all due respect. While our tax base may be 3-4 times larger than any other program over there in Europe, so is the coverage area. Bureaucracy 101, as it gets larger, so will the costs. As I said before - and we can witness from this nearly trillion dollar bill by Obama - none of these countries deal with an illegal population that will be covered under this system. These people are paying little to no taxes, but they'll surely be insured at the cost over everyone else!Frankly, you guys are all the same. You love to say how good these projects are but you're never able to defend them worth a hoot once people start asking questions about how they're gonna work. The only ways out are the usual "somehow a new way will be magically efficient!"
The socialistic and pseudo-socialistic European countries have, almost without exception, higher standards of living and are, according to polls, happier than in the United States. You make it sound as though the poor are beaten down by socialism, but they are the ones who benefit from it the most, because it ensures them basic goods and services like health care that millions of people can't get in the US. That is what socialism is about - ensuring a certain standard of living for people. The money that gets taken away through taxes doesn't go into a black hole, it comes back to them in form of government services.
If they're so happy why is much of the establishment over there so intent on trying to beat the US at its own game? It's really quite clear why the EU superstate was formed. I see these magical polls about happiness all of the time, but it seems there's still such a strive to be more like America despite all of this.
 

Letsgofishing

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I shall be Mr. Fitz's vice-CommunistDictatorCanadianMJBurningSwedenBomber!!!If that is okay with Mr. Fitz, however
I hereby elect Mathew whatsthe-restofhisname as my vice-CommunistDictatorCanadianMJBurningSwedenBomber!!!I'm sure we will make a smashing pair.
 

Lunar

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Nov 23, 2007
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Frankly, you guys are all the same.
Well, thanks for giving me the opportunity to even respond before you called the match in your favor.I have to say, I'm really not a fan of the dripping contempt with which every response to me in every thread on this forum has been laced. The accusations of being a sheep, brainwashed, deluded, claims that I "can't defend my views" when we've barely even begun to exchange ideas, are just everywhere. If you don't agree with my political views, I can live with that, but as Christians you ought to at least be able find it in yourself to treat people with differing opinions with some common decency.Never even mind the debate about whether Jesus was a proponent of socialism. Some of you people are just plain mean. It completely grates on my will to carry out a discussion when every time I get back to it I'm greeted with a new below-the-belt hit or ad hominem attack. Maybe you actually like being verbally abused, but to most of you, I say remember the golden rule. And what's saddest is, it's making me think hard about whether ought to I prioritize Christianity or compassion, because the way some here act you'd think they were mutually exclusive.I'm going to take tim_from_pa's advice and find a new forum. A lot of people here don't share my views on politics, but what upsets me much more than that is the apparent scarceness of people who share my views on being nice to one another. I don't have the inclination and probably don't have the ability either to change your minds about politics or how we ought to interpret the bible, but I hope you at least consider being more welcoming to the next newcomer who comes along.And to those of you who were respectful, thank you.
 

Jerusalem Junkie

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A lot of people here don't share my views on politics, but what upsets me much more than that is the apparent scarceness of people who share my views on being nice to one another.
I hate to say it but you won't find no two people who agree on the same thing. And being nice every forum has people who cannot be nice. Me I am leaving for different reasons because I am a persecutor so I will not be hanging around either as far as I know. When it comes to religion and politics everybody knows it all but no one knows nothing. And I do not see where Denver really said anything wrong he just did not agree with your point of view.
 

LittleLightShining

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Jan 23, 2008
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But there are some major problems with Ron Paul. First, I have to say that I disagree strongly with how infallibly he views the Constitution. Ron Paul fetishizes the Constitution to a dangerous extent. I'll acknowledge that the Constitution was a brilliant work with many great ideas for its time. Some of those ideas are still relevant today. But some of them aren't. The Constitution was obviously not an infallible document. Under the original Constitution, women couldn't vote. Indeed, the Constitution needed to be amended a number of times to get it to the right place. Why does Ron Paul think that that process has stopped? The views of the Constitution are only as relevant as the time period in which it is being used, and as the time evolves, so too must the Constitution. Now, some people want to amend the Constitution in bad ways. Some people want to use it as a weapon to destroy civil liberties. I disagree with these people. But there are other ways in which the original Constitution simply can't keep up with modern society - in particular, I was aghast when he suggested we repeal the Sixteenth Amendment.
The Constitution was certainly a flawed document as it was a product of the time in which it was written. I don't see where Ron Paul thinks the Constitution should not be amended anymore, aside from statements he has made that in effect state the Constitution shouldn't be amended to legislate morality. What he would like to see, as far as I can tell, is a return to states' rights as opposed to sweeping federal mandates for or against issues that are better left to the states.As for the 16th amendment, why are you aghast? The income tax, as defined by the constitution is a tax on income, not labor. And more specifically income is defined as corporate profit. (lunar)
Which leads me to another thing I object to about Ron Paul - his no-tax, pro-business model. Ron Paul places far too much faith in the integrity of private corporations to provide effectively for the citizens of the United States. Now, I have a healthy skepticism of the good intentions of our government. But I have a far healthier skepticism of the good intentions of businesses, which do not even make any pretensions to acting in the interest of the citizens. Ron Paul's stance on government regulation of C02 emissions is a perfect example of this. There's simply no incentive for businesses to act in the interests of the environment - and in turn, the citizens, as the environment affects all of us - without government interference.
Ron Paul's environmental policy would make it easier for citizens to hold those businesses that pollute accountable for their actions. (Lunar)
Health care is another issue where I don't trust private corporations to function effectively. What's in the best interest of the health care provider - to make you better at once? Or to lead you on and keep you mostly sick, so that you keep coming back and spending more money?
The Health Freedom idea that Ron Paul espouses (and let's not forget he is a doctor) would allow for health savings accounts not tied to a high deductible insurance policy. The consumer would have an account that is specifically for use in paying for health services. All health-related payments would be tax-deductible. Rather than pay upwards of $1000 per month to pay into an insurance scheme whether you need care that month or not, one would pay into an interest bearing account to be used when the need arose. I think this would foster a better working relationship with doctors. Of course, if you felt more comfortable with a traditional insurance policy that is your choice. Ron Paul also firmly believes that vitamins and supplements should remain legal and vaccinations, such as the HPV vaccine Gardasil, should not be mandated.(Lunar)
And that he suggests that the Department of Education be dissolved? Honestly, I can scarcely believe he even suggested it. It takes very little imagination to envision the ridiculous class imbalance that will ensue when education is left up to private corporations. In short, thinking that leaving all of these services up to businesses will somehow magically work things out is hopelessly idealistic and suggests severe historical amnesia. Businesses do not care about the citizen. They care only about maximizing profits. I read an article once that was doing a psychological profile of a number of different social entities. The business was diagnosed as a sociopath, and that's very reflective of how much faith I put in them to effectively manage our interests on their own - none.
The removal of the Department of Education used to be a plank on the Republican Party platform. It's not such an outlandish idea. Again, Ron Paul would prefer to see education control returned to the states and in turn the local communities. I have read no writing from Dr. Paul that even remotely suggests that education should be turned over to private corporations. (Lunar)
Ron Paul also doesn't really have a coherent positive stance on what the role of the government actually is. I watched several interviews with him and, when asked what role the government actually did have, his only answer was that the role of the government was to reduce regulations and get rid of needless laws. In other words, the role of the government is to destroy itself. His libertarian ideals seem synonymous with anarchism.
I beg to differ. Ron Paul has a very coherent stance on the role of government. It's just not what we have been led to believe the role of government should be. The role of government is to protect our liberty as individuals. We have a right to privacy and the pursuit of happiness. So long as what I do doesn't harm anyone I should be left alone.(Lunar)
There's also the issue of the newsletters published under his name from 1978-1995. The content of these newsletters is, to put it bluntly, completely appalling, as they spew a steady stream racist and homophobic vitriol, along with flagrant medical falsehoods (at one point the newsletters claimed that "we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in [Washington DC] are at least semi-criminal or entirely criminal." Another snippet suggested that, because of its high black population, Washington DC be renamed to "Welfaria, or Rapeville, or Dirtburg, or Lazyopolis.")Ron Paul denies that these words were his own and that the articles were ghost-written. The cynic would see this as damage control and assume that Ron Paul is actually a racist, homophobe, and all-around lunatic; while there is some merit to this view considering Ron Paul's voting record and his failure to do anything about the newsletter for seventeen years, I will be generous and give him the benefit of the doubt. But if this really was all an unfortunate mishap, and these views don't reflect Ron Paul's views, then what does this tell us about Ron Paul? I would say that it shows that he is astonishingly incompetent. To have this as a persistent issue for seventeen years, have it brought to his attention numerous times, and not do anything about it - if Ron Paul can't effectively manage a newsletter, what does that say about his ability to manage the country? The whole ordeal represents at best disturbing negligence and incompetence on his behalf, and at worst, blatant racism and homophobia.
Libertarianism is the least racist or homophobic political bent there is. I will cede the point you make that he should have been more aware of what was going out under his name. However, the fact that he assumes moral responsibility for this lapse in oversight is a respectable stance. He is, like you and I, a human being and is not infallible. He isn't a lunatic. If you listened to what he has to say and if you actually read any of his writings you would see that.(Lunar)
This charge of incompetence is also consistent with Ron Paul's legislative track record. Considering how long he has served in Congress, it is somewhat astonishing that Ron Paul has absolutely no significant legislative achievements. When you have extreme views like he does, you need a certain degree of tact and legislative finesse in order to accomplish your goals. That he has not been able to implement any of them suggests that he has neither. You have to question how much of his agenda the guy would actually accomplish as president. I'm going to be presumptuous and say not much.
I would tend to look at the legislation which he has introduced and look at the other legislators he is working with. Unlike the majority of elected representatives in Congress, he isn't directly influenced by corporate lobbyists. In fact, his legislation would reduce the scope of government and corporate influence on government. Unfortunately, most congressman are fat and happy where they are and wouldn't dream of doing the things he not only advocates but actually does, such as voting against a pay increase for congressman. He also doesn't participate in the congressional pension program and he returns a portion of his office budget to the Treasury every term. Another thing he doesn't do is charge us for his work-related travel. My congressman can't say that, can yours?(Lunar)
Finally, and perhaps most importantly, I don't think Ron Paul is interested in helping people. In terms of foreign policy, he's an isolationist. Even with respect to Darfur, where absolutely horrible things are happening, he has said something to the effect of "It's a civil war, and it's not our problem." What a horribly cynical view to take! Now, I'm wary of the charges of policing the world, and being an arrogant nation, but frankly, I see nothing arrogant about sending aid to Darfur. That seems like a very compassionate view to take. But Ron Paul doesn't seem interested in compassion. His rationale for everything seems to be based on money, not social wellbeing. You can't help but feel that he equates what is right with "where the money is." He seems interested primarily in the Constitution and libertarian ideals, and he has prioritized this ideology before the wellbeing of the people. I simply can't stand for that.
Not to toot my own horn but my family sponsors a Compassion child. If we had more of the money my husband earns in our pockets we would, as a family, have more to give-- on a local level and internationally. I don't agree with your point about Darfur. While I agree that the situation in Darfur is a grotesque tragedy, I don't think that a nation that is $9 trillion dollars in debt is in any position to give money as aid. The monies that our government have traditionally given to countries who need humanitarian help inevitably goes to the governments of those countries who are perpetrating the crises on their own people, not to the people who need it most. And Ron Paul doesn't necessarily advocate a complete hands-off approach to foreign military intervention. What he does say is that if we are going to use our military, it should be in a war declared by congress and not a pre-emptive strike in the name of security.(Lunar)
So, that's why I don't support Ron Paul. I think his ideas would be incredibly destructive and not at all what Christ would want, and I think that he, personally, is not a competent politician.
After reading your other posts, I think that you lean more toward a socialist Jesus. In my understanding, Jesus did advocate an almost communistic lifestyle. The difference is that Jesus didn't come to be a political savior, but a personal, spiritual savior. When a government is socialist, the people inevitably become slaves. A socialistic government makes a god of the state. In my opinion the government is best which governs least allowing me to be benevolent (or not). We have been led to believe that other people know what's better for us than we do and as a statesmen, not a politician, Ron Paul disagrees.
 

Dunamite

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I have been receiving e-mails that are very disturbing; particulary in regards to one of the candidates who has a Muslim background. Is anyone else fearful that he may be elected? Snopes has verified that he did not swear in for his senate position using the Bible, but the Koran. He does not honor our flag. He does not honor our national anthem. He seems to be so nice and has a smooth way about him, but that's how we are deceived. I know Oprah has endorsed him, but I have lost a lot of respect for her due to her "new age" move as of late. I don't even watch her program anymore. It has been boycotted from my home.She is kind and funny and that's all well and good, but it's time to take a stand for Christian values. Americans had better be on guard. We are having a Reign Down U.S.A meeting at our church in April in which all local churches will be invited in the greater Baton Rouge area to participate to take back the U.S. for the Lord. Of course, we are acused of being intolerant for this, but if we continue to compromise, we will end up being controlled by the enemy. Their freedom will be our slavery.
You place too much importance on the person. It does not matter who. The office of the president is already filled. The face may change, but nothing else will.The president is owned. He or she is bought and paid for. Big business runs the elections providing all of the funding. They control the media and give access to who they want. They slant the news so you get the message that they want. All of the candidates will have the Wall Street seal of approval. Don't you ever wonder why Gore rolled over so easily in 2000 without a fight. He wasn't supposed to get as close as he did. That wasn't the scripted outcome. I bet you think that wrestling is reall, too!The only thing that elections decide is which one of their candidates you will choose. Their handlers tell them what to say, how to say it and even filter the audience. The media slants the news and decides what is an issue or isn't. In the end nothing will change. Count on it. The status quo is secure.If Obama was a threat then he would not have made it this far and his war chest would not be as huge. He is as establishment as they come. The same could be said for Hilary or McCain. The unestablishment candidates have been weeded out, Kucinich and Paul. Nader may be troublesome, but is no threat, a mere gnat to the establishment.A candidate must be compliant and know how to play the game. If they don't know that they are mere talking heads and TV personalities then they are straightened out in time. The president is on a short leash. Obama preaches change, but he is insincere. He knows is, too. His language is inclusive. Count the times he uses "We", compared to Hilary who uses "I". He has no message. So he uses the strategy of building alliances without having to specify what he stands for.It is all a game. It is carefully scripted. Sit back and enjoy it an play your role. Vote for whomever you want because it does not matter much who gets in. The election is probably rigged anyway. Doubtless you have seen all of the hacks to the various electronic voting machines posted on the internet. The only good ballot is a paper one and even that one is suspect. As Stalin said, it matters only who counts the votes. You have the Supreme Court to make the final decision if it is that close, as if it matters in the end. All of this is convince you that democracy exist.Anyone who bucks the system will be eliminated one way or the other. The last one to try was Jack Kennedy. We all know what happened to him. These guys play for keeps. Obama knows that. He will play his part if he gets the chance.Who would have thought that America would be it is today after the last two election results? Conservatives won both elections and the economy has tanked and America is is debt for the long haul. The end of war is nowhere in sight. Look at the bright side. Exxon Mobile made over $11 billion last quarter. You don't hear them complaining.Blessings,Dunamite
 

Dunamite

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You place too much importance on the person. It does not matter who. The office of the president is already filled. The face may change, but nothing else will.The president is owned. He or she is bought and paid for. Big business runs the elections providing all of the funding. They control the media and give access to who they want. They slant the news so you get the message that they want. All of the candidates will have the Wall Street seal of approval. Don't you ever wonder why Gore rolled over so easily in 2000 without a fight. He wasn't supposed to get as close as he did. That wasn't the scripted outcome. I bet you think that wrestling is real, too!The only thing that elections decide is which one of their candidates you will choose. Their handlers tell them what to say, how to say it and even filter the audience. The media slants the news and decides what is an issue or isn't. In the end nothing will change. Count on it. The status quo is secure.If Obama was a threat then he would not have made it this far and his war chest would not be as huge. He is as establishment as they come. The same could be said for Hilary or McCain. The unestablishment candidates have been weeded out, Kucinich and Paul. Nader may be troublesome, but is no threat, a mere gnat to the establishment.A candidate must be compliant and know how to play the game. If they don't know that they are mere talking heads and TV personalities then they are straightened out in time. The president is on a short leash. Obama preaches change, but he is insincere. He knows is, too. His language is inclusive. Count the times he uses "We", compared to Hilary who uses "I". He has no message. So he uses the strategy of building alliances without having to specify what he stands for.It is all a game. It is carefully scripted. Sit back and enjoy it an play your role. Vote for whomever you want because it does not matter much who gets in. The election is probably rigged anyway. Doubtless you have seen all of the hacks to the various electronic voting machines posted on the internet. The only good ballot is a paper one and even that one is suspect. As Stalin said, it matters only who counts the votes. You have the Supreme Court to make the final decision if it is that close, as if it matters in the end. All of this is convince you that democracy exists. Think of politics as a reality show. Like American idol, but longer and more expensive. In both cases you end up with the middle of the road, someone who is sappy enough to be likable but not someone that you would really choose to listen to unless you have bad taste in music. The idea is not to alienate anybody too much so that the elected one can sell the unpalatable to the nation.Anyone who bucks the system will be eliminated one way or the other. The last one to try was Jack Kennedy. We all know what happened to him. These guys play for keeps. Obama knows that. He will play his part if he gets the chance.Who would have thought that America would be it is today after the last two election results? Conservatives won both elections and the economy has tanked and America is is debt for the long haul. The end of war is nowhere in sight. Look at the bright side. Exxon Mobile made over $11 billion last quarter. You don't hear them complaining.Blessings,Dunamite
 

Kimshi42

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This has probably been corrected already: but snopes said BO did NOT swear on the Koran.
 

tim_from_pa

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It is all a game. It is carefully scripted.
Sigh..... I fear I agree here. I even believe the superbowl is rigged! And that goes for anything where big money is involved. This nation has gotten so far away from what the founding fathers intended.Even if my candidate, Ron Paul, would get in and actually practiced what he now says, he'd probably be assassinated the next day anyway.I guess the only pleasure I have is watching the end times come, when the likes of these who smugly think they have the one-up-man-ship will get consumed. Don't sound too Christian saying that, does it? well, I say they had their chance---- don't think much of people who deliberately reject the truth when they had all the opportunity in the world.Sometimes, one has to be a Christian like the two witnesses in Revelation. They are not too much into turning the other cheek, are they now?
 

bullfighter

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Sigh..... I fear I agree here. I even believe the superbowl is rigged! And that goes for anything where big money is involved. This nation has gotten so far away from what the founding fathers intended.Even if my candidate, Ron Paul, would get in and actually practiced what he now says, he'd probably be assassinated the next day anyway.I guess the only pleasure I have is watching the end times come, when the likes of these who smugly think they have the one-up-man-ship will get consumed. Don't sound too Christian saying that, does it? well, I say they had their chance---- don't think much of people who deliberately reject the truth when they had all the opportunity in the world.Sometimes, one has to be a Christian like the two witnesses in Revelation. They are not too much into turning the other cheek, are they now?
to vote for the great pres that will right all the wrong or even some...jesus says come out for gods wrath will come apond the kings and ship captains ect....forget the vote it will do no good for what comes.....
 

Dunamite

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Sigh..... I fear I agree here. I even believe the superbowl is rigged! And that goes for anything where big money is involved. This nation has gotten so far away from what the founding fathers intended.Even if my candidate, Ron Paul, would get in and actually practiced what he now says, he'd probably be assassinated the next day anyway.I guess the only pleasure I have is watching the end times come, when the likes of these who smugly think they have the one-up-man-ship will get consumed. Don't sound too Christian saying that, does it? well, I say they had their chance---- don't think much of people who deliberately reject the truth when they had all the opportunity in the world.Sometimes, one has to be a Christian like the two witnesses in Revelation. They are not too much into turning the other cheek, are they now?
Things are unfolding as they should. World dictatorship is next. The signs of it are evident in the U.S. and in the world at large. The dictatorship will be capitalist and not communist as we once feared. International borders are disappearing and trade barriers are disappearing. Commerce dictates government policy in every country including Communist China. The world will soon be marching to one tune. Anyone who gains control will control the world.We don't know who it will be or when it will be but we are told that nobody will be able to buy or sell without the mark of the Beast. The mechanisms for this type of control are already in place. We don't want to admit it but we are controlled people. Corporations control every financial transaction. They control the media. The control the entertainment industry. They control the food supply. They control medicines. They control the internet. They control government and governments are under pressure everywhere to spy on its own citizenry.We have put ourselves into this situation by allowing ourselves to be seduced into an easy lifestyle. It is easier to buy food than to grow it. It is cheaper to buy a replacement that to fix something old. We have come to rely on corporations to do everything for us.I had a wake up call about 15 years ago. In my province of Canada a socialist party ran on a platform relieving the tax burden on the middleclass by increasing corporate taxes. They were elected and businesses threatened to move en masse if corporate taxes were raised. The party then turned and raised taxes on the middleclass to make up for shrinking revenue.I learned then what power business has over government. I also learned that there are longstanding close ties between business and government and some unwritten rules which governments must obey. If you break the rules then they will break you.Things have got much worse since then. Business totally controls government. I believe that the war in Iraq is about money. In fact almost all wars are. Somebody wants something from someone else or the actions of another country threaten the interests of another. The military is increasingly used to secure and protect markets. The threats against Iran are due to the threat that they pose to the dollar as the international standard for trade. If the Euro became the standard then the bottom line of corporations and whole countries including the U.S. would be bleak.I watch elections with interest, knowing that nothing will change. It is a bit like a kid watching a Disney movie for the 50th time. You know how it will end, but never cease to be amazed when Aladdin saves Jasmine and tricks Jafar.I do my civic duty and vote, but don't take it too seriously when things don't turn out as I want. I played my part and others are playing theirs.Can we rescue democracy? I think not. There are forces at work that are bigger than we are. They think that they are in control, but they aren't. God is in control and he knows how it will end. He will step in and will usher in a new age. That is the only government that I look forward to.Blessings,Dunamite
 

Dunamite

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I posted the same link and just saw yours now. I guess we read the some of the same things. I picked it up on slashdot.Fun!
 

Dunamite

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I am worried about the American election. I think that everyone on the globe should be. I have no vote. I am not American.America has very serious problems facing it. The debt is staggering. The dollar is collapsing. Recession is predicted. The war has no end in sight. Terrorism is on the rise. It is all crisis management and no planning for the future. What happens is Iran sells oil in Euros? Is this cause to go to an even bigger and more expensive war or do we up the ante and use nukes? What happens if other countries follow suit? What happens if Iran's allies china and Russia react? Shouldn't we be planning ahead to avoid catastrophes instead of being caught by surprise and acting in a knee jerk fashion?America has a leadership vacuum. The current administration is so low in the polls that nothing they can do can restore confidence. The president is doing victory laps with jaunts to Africa and Asia. He is more concerned about his legacy that the future.None of the candidates seems to grasp the full extent of the problem. They avoid talking about the tough issues. They posture and haggle of inane things. They are more concerned about how they look or precise wording than substance. The Republicans are trotting out a tired old war horse as their number one candidate. The Democrats are caught up in the moment with such earth shattering news that he is black (partly) and she is a woman (I was tempted to say... hmmm, forget it). Black and woman are obvious. Get over it. Where is the substance?Yesterday we heard the Democratic candidates say that they would pull out of NAFTA. This is a serious consideration and nothing to be flippant about. It is a legally binding treaty which took much negotiating. It has grave implications for an already weak economy. It should be discussed if it is wrong for the U.S. but it isn't something to posture over without thinking it through.Am I the only one that thinks that all of the candidates are about as deep as Saran Wrap? And about as transparent it would seem.America's problems can only be solved by Americans. If this is the best that America has to offer we should all be very worried indeed. We need someone at the helm first. Then we need someone who can think ahead and think better on his or her feet that what we have seen.The future looks bleak if it doesn't get better than this.
 

Kay

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Feb 28, 2008
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His By Grace;33882 said:
I have been receiving e-mails that are very disturbing; particulary in regards to one of the candidates who has a Muslim background. Is anyone else fearful that he may be elected? Snopes has verified that he did not swear in for his senate position using the Bible, but the Koran. He does not honor our flag. He does not honor our national anthem.I just checked with snopes.com and found the above very wrong! Senate/House members only have to swear an oath to uphold the constitution - no 'books' are used. It appears that a writer for L.A. got folks confused about Obama when reporting on another member. You may want to start checking with snopes youself before repeating what folks are telling you in their emails. I have a friend that oftentimes emails me virus alerts, and I go to snopes and find that most of them are over a year old.Kay