The "watch rapture view"

[Davidpt]

Exactly what i said

Is there even a disagreement then? You gave the impression that you were questioning some or all of what I said in post #235.

 

[Davidpt]

It is reasonable in the exact same way that it's reasonable that Ezekiel 39:23-29 is referring not to the judgment of Gog, nor to a regathering of Israel into their own land following the judgment of Gog, but to the same gathering of Israel back into the land that was mentioned in Ezekiel 36:24-38.

You need to understand this in order to understand Daniel 12 properly (you won't understand Daniel 12 properly if you don't understand this), so look at Ezekiel 36:24 to Ezekiel 39:29, because what you see in this passage is a "Markan Sandwich", and prophetic scripture is full of them:

Ezekiel 36:24-38 opens the prophecy regarding Israel being gathered from the nations back into their own land.
Ezekiel 39:23-29 closes that prophecy.
Ezekiel chapter 37 gives more detail regarding the same prophecy (see Ezekiel 37:23-25).

The above are the two pieces of bread of the Markan sandwich: The bottom piece being Ezekiel 36:24-38 & Ezekiel chapter 37; and the top piece being Ezekiel 39:23-29. Everything else in-between is talking about Gog and Magog coming against Israel following the time they had been gathered from the nations back into their own land.

I.O.W Ezekiel 38:1 through to Ezekiel 39:22 are parenthetic.

* The Temple mentioned in Ezekiel 37:26-29 is elaborated about in the visions of the Tabernacle (Ezekiel 40:2) that Ezekiel saw in Ezekiel chapters 40-48, which all correlates with the visions John saw in the Revelation (chapters 20-22). There is a lot of metaphor being used throughout both books.

IN THE SAME WAY, and as part of the bottom piece of bread in another Markan Sandwich, the text of Daniel 8:11 and Daniel 11:31 links both verses to:-

(a) daily sacrifices for sin being removed (which is what occurred in the 2nd temple in the days of Antiochus IV); and
(b) an abomination of desolation being placed in the holy place (which is what occurred in the 2nd temple in the days of Antiochus IV); and

The above verses are the bottom piece of bread in the Markan Sandwich.

Daniel 12:11-12 links the daily sacrifices for sin being removed in that (2nd) temple of God to 1,290 days and 1,335 days, and closes the prophecy.

Daniel 12:11-12 is the top piece of bread closing the prophecy.

Daniel 12:1-10 (a second bottom piece of bread) is a second prophecy ( a "prophecy within a prophecy").

It's talking about the end of the age, and Daniel 12:13 (the second top piece of bread) closes that second prophecy. It's a prophecy within a prophecy and a Markan Sandwich within a Markan Sandwich.

The reason Daniel 12 is written like this is because A4E is the type of the son of perdition of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and the abomination of desolation he placed in the holy place, is a type of the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Notice how the end of the age mentioned in Daniel 12:1-10 speaks about 3.5 years in verse 7 (not 1,290 days or 1,335 days).

Daniel 12:6-7 correlates with the end of the age in Revelation 10:5-7;

and there are aspects of what is said about the people of God in Daniel 12:1-10 which were true of the Jews in the days of A4E. That's how marvelous this prophecy is:
​

"There shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" was true of what took place during the days of A4E, but the second prophecy within that prophecy is what we read about in Matthew 24:21-22.

"And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever" was true of God's faithful remnant during the days of A4E. The rest (the vast majority) apostatized, but the second prophecy within that prophecy is what will occur at the end of this age.

If anyone doesn't understand this it's because the person doesn't understand how biblical prophecy works.

In your mind, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you only see A4E being a type for the man of sin. While I OTOH see Judas being a type for the man of sin. Think about it for a minute. A4E defiled a literal temple, except 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is not involving a literal temple. How can there possibly be a connection? But when Judas allowed satan to posssess him he defiled his body, he defiled the temple of God(1 Corinthians 3:16-17)

 

[David in NJ]

Is there even a disagreement then? You gave the impression that you were questioning some or all of what I said in post #235.

No, i was only seeking to encourage and/or agree with you that there is going to be a great evil unleashed INSIDE mankind that will bring about the unforgivable sin.

 

[pandaflower]

In your mind, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, you only see A4E being a type for the man of sin. While I OTOH see Judas being a type for the man of sin. Think about it for a minute. A4E defiled a literal temple, except 2 Thessalonians 2:4 is not involving a literal temple. How can there possibly be a connection? But when Judas allowed satan to posssess him he defiled his body, he defiled the temple of God(1 Corinthians 3:16-17)

That's weird. Judas,who was a disciple of Jesus,allowed Satan to possess him?

 

[Douggg]

That's weird. Judas,who was a disciple of Jesus,allowed Satan to possess him?

I think that Judas betrayed Jesus in his agreement to lead the armed men (of the chief priests and Pharisees) to the garden of Gethsemane to arrest Jesus when crowds were not around - because Satan had put those thoughts to do so into Judas.

I don't think that Satan literally possessed Judas at the time to do so. There are different points of view about that though. One is that Satan literally possessed Judas. The other is that Satan whispered thoughts into Judas's mind.

 

[pandaflower]

I think that Judas betrayed Jesus in his agreement to lead the armed men (of the chief priests and Pharisees) to the garden of Gethsemane to arrest Jesus when crowds were not around - because Satan had put those thoughts to do so into Judas.

I don't think that Satan literally possessed Judas at the time to do so. There are different points of view about that though. One is that Satan literally possessed Judas. The other is that Satan whispered thoughts into Judas's mind.

Thanks for your explanation.I appreciate that.

 

[Davidpt]

That's weird. Judas,who was a disciple of Jesus,allowed Satan to possess him?

Allowed or however we might want to take it to mean, the text says satan entered Judas, thus, in my mind, equals possessed him during the ordeal. After all, how does a spirit being enter someone without it involving possessing them?

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

John 13:27 And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly.

 

[Davidpt]

It is reasonable in the exact same way that it's reasonable that Ezekiel 39:23-29 is referring not to the judgment of Gog, nor to a regathering of Israel into their own land following the judgment of Gog, but to the same gathering of Israel back into the land that was mentioned in Ezekiel 36:24-38.

You need to understand this in order to understand Daniel 12 properly (you won't understand Daniel 12 properly if you don't understand this), so look at Ezekiel 36:24 to Ezekiel 39:29, because what you see in this passage is a "Markan Sandwich", and prophetic scripture is full of them:

Ezekiel 36:24-38 opens the prophecy regarding Israel being gathered from the nations back into their own land.
Ezekiel 39:23-29 closes that prophecy.
Ezekiel chapter 37 gives more detail regarding the same prophecy (see Ezekiel 37:23-25).

The above are the two pieces of bread of the Markan sandwich: The bottom piece being Ezekiel 36:24-38 & Ezekiel chapter 37; and the top piece being Ezekiel 39:23-29. Everything else in-between is talking about Gog and Magog coming against Israel following the time they had been gathered from the nations back into their own land.

I.O.W Ezekiel 38:1 through to Ezekiel 39:22 are parenthetic.

* The Temple mentioned in Ezekiel 37:26-29 is elaborated about in the visions of the Tabernacle (Ezekiel 40:2) that Ezekiel saw in Ezekiel chapters 40-48, which all correlates with the visions John saw in the Revelation (chapters 20-22). There is a lot of metaphor being used throughout both books.

IN THE SAME WAY, and as part of the bottom piece of bread in another Markan Sandwich, the text of Daniel 8:11 and Daniel 11:31 links both verses to:-

(a) daily sacrifices for sin being removed (which is what occurred in the 2nd temple in the days of Antiochus IV); and
(b) an abomination of desolation being placed in the holy place (which is what occurred in the 2nd temple in the days of Antiochus IV); and

The above verses are the bottom piece of bread in the Markan Sandwich.

Daniel 12:11-12 links the daily sacrifices for sin being removed in that (2nd) temple of God to 1,290 days and 1,335 days, and closes the prophecy.

Daniel 12:11-12 is the top piece of bread closing the prophecy.

Daniel 12:1-10 (a second bottom piece of bread) is a second prophecy ( a "prophecy within a prophecy").

It's talking about the end of the age, and Daniel 12:13 (the second top piece of bread) closes that second prophecy. It's a prophecy within a prophecy and a Markan Sandwich within a Markan Sandwich.

The reason Daniel 12 is written like this is because A4E is the type of the son of perdition of 2 Thessalonians 2:4 and the abomination of desolation he placed in the holy place, is a type of the abomination of desolation of Matthew 24:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

Notice how the end of the age mentioned in Daniel 12:1-10 speaks about 3.5 years in verse 7 (not 1,290 days or 1,335 days).

Daniel 12:6-7 correlates with the end of the age in Revelation 10:5-7;

and there are aspects of what is said about the people of God in Daniel 12:1-10 which were true of the Jews in the days of A4E. That's how marvelous this prophecy is:
​

"There shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" was true of what took place during the days of A4E, but the second prophecy within that prophecy is what we read about in Matthew 24:21-22.

"And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever" was true of God's faithful remnant during the days of A4E. The rest (the vast majority) apostatized, but the second prophecy within that prophecy is what will occur at the end of this age.

If anyone doesn't understand this it's because the person doesn't understand how biblical prophecy works.

What I would argue is this, where I feel this argument can't be trumped. To apply verse 11 and 12 to the days of A4E is to then violate verse 4. It is not reasonable that all the words in ch 12 are shut up and sealed until the time of the end except for verse 11 and 12.

Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


Which has to include verse 11 and 12.