Apostolic Succession.

[shepherdsword]

No, you listed some successors of Peter and said to me, "It's simple to see that the popes listed were not successors of the apostles". I asked you to explain how and heard crickets in response.

That is not true. I explained that those popes were wicked men and could not have been in the line of succession

 

[shepherdsword]

It's one thing to say an interpretation has been disproven, that's easy, but quite another to actually show it has. You should take a stab at doing the latter.

Oh, it has been disproven. You are just being like this:

Ferrous Cranus is utterly impervious to reason, persuasion and new ideas, and when engaged in battle he will not yield an inch in his position regardless of its hopelessness. Though his thrusts are decisively repulsed, his arguments crushed in every detail and his defenses demolished beyond repair he will remount the same attack again and again with only the slightest variation in tactics

 

[Behold]

 

[Behold]

 

[Origen]

but till then you can keep trusting in bible verses where Jesus is only Talking to JEWS, as there are no Christians found in your verses... @Origen

Jesus the Christ was talking to Jewish men who were now followers of His teachings, which is what made them a "Christian", and gave them the authority in His name to baptize new Christians and forgive sins of those who repent:

"Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"

"If you forgive anyone’s sins, they have been forgiven them. If you retain anyone’s sins, they have been retained.”

When people went to them, or go to their successors, for baptism and confession, they were and are baptized and forgiven of theirs sins by priests on behalf of the one Who was given authority by the Father and passed on the authority to them: Jesus.

 

[Origen]

That is not true. I explained that those popes were wicked men and could not have been in the line of succession

No, you listed some successors of Peter and said to me, "It's simple to see that the popes listed were not successors of the apostles". I asked you to explain how and heard crickets in response. I still hear 'em.

 

[Mink57]

Just before Jesus ascended back into Heaven, Peter was jealous of John and Jesus had to correct Him. Jn 21. @Mink57

Wait a sec...I'm not seeing that in Jn21. Verses?

After Paul was called to be the "Apostle to the Gentiles" in the "time of the Gentiles"..... (you are in it)......>Jesus personally Gave to Paul the correct understanding of "The Gospel"........and Jesus personally taught Paul "church Doctrine".
This is why Paul's is the main writer of the Epistles found in a NT.

Wait a sec...did Jesus give Paul the correct understanding of the Gospel or of the Scriptures? I recall that he gave ALL of the Apostles the correct understanding of the Scriptures....

Later, Paul had to correct PETER, because Peter and His group "walked not uprightly according to the TRUTH", Paul wrote.

Again, verse? (I'm not challenging you. I just want to read for myself where that's written)

Peter is not a Pope.
God didnt create this situation.......Its an invention of the "Cult of Mary", for the purpose of trying to be PERCEIVED as "the one true Church".

Well, the RCC sees him as a Pope. And I can see why. Since the RCC doesn't limit herself to ONLY what's written in the Bible, it doesn't surprise me that THAT'S how they reached their conclusion.

Have you ever heard of a man named Howard Storm? An atheist who "supposedly" died and had a near death experience that changed his life? While in heaven, he "supposedly" talked with God/Jesus and asked, "What's the right religion?" Tne answer was, "Which ever one that brings you closer to God." I thought that was a brilliant answer.

One reason why I like the Catholic religion is because it doesn't discourage or prohibit you from going outside of the bible to get a better understanding of it.

The Last Pope, the one that just died, St Francis.......was a corrupted man, whose last efforts at changing the "cult of Mary... is to allow Homosexuals......into the Priesthood.

There's a difference between classifying one's self as a homosexual and a practicing homosexual. After all, there IS a call for celibacy. Not saying that I necessarily agree with it (allowing homosexuals as priests), but I understand the rationale.

So, there is your "Pope"......one of them.

And Reader, there was a time, that this cult had 6 People all claiming to be The "Pope" and all saying that the other 5, were the "anti-Christ'.

So, this Religious Circus filled with robe wearing religious clowns, is one of the Devil's finest creations., along with Calvinism, and Islam.

I wouldn't go that far.

In all honesty, how many of the 1.3 billion Catholics actually go by what the Pope says?

 

[Mink57]

No Apostle forgave your sin, @Origen, and If you've not not had your sins forgiven, because you believe that "water washed your sin away"..........then i can promise you, that thousands of people who believed that Catholic Lie also, died and went to hell today, "sprinkled, water baptized and confirmed".
Why are they in HELL?......Why did they go TODAY?

A.) Jesus said.....>"you MUST be born again"....and WATER BAPTISM can't provided that to you, or for you.

I'm sorry @Behold, but I don't think you or anyone else has any right to judge WHO is in hell...

Just saying.

 

[Behold]

Jesus the Christ was talking to Jewish men who were now followers of His teachings, which is what made them a "Christian",

No one can become a "Christian" until the basis for becoming a Christian, is provided. @Origen

That Basis is a blood sacrifice that God provides for the forgiveness of Sin, as the NEW Covenant that is the BLOOD OF JESUS shed as the "blood atonement".

So, in your verses, and in your cult ........both teach that Salvation is based on WATER, when it fact, Salvation Hung on The Cross, or NO SALVATION is Offered.

JESUS Is Salvation.........not Water.

So, you are teaching Salvation by water....and works., and that is a False Gospel.

Result? Your Salvation theology, has no JESUS on The Cross in it, so that makes you and your cult.

Galatians 1:8

 

[Mink57]

View attachment 62924

What's your point?

 

[Behold]

I'm sorry @Behold, but I don't think you or anyone else has any right to judge WHO is in hell...

Just saying.

Wrong again.

God created Hell........and Jesus spoke about it more then He talked about Heaven.

JUDE teaches that in some cases when trying to lead somone to Christ, they will only be convinced by ..

"""""others (unbelievers) you must try to save, as brands plucked from the flames; (of Hell)"

This means that some people wont react to "God is love" and ""Jesus loves you""", but they will react to the strong idea when presented to them.... that Hell is real and they are going there unless Christ interveins for them.

Wake up. @Mink57. your Cult owns your mind.

 

[Mink57]

Wrong again.

God created Hell........and Jesus spoke about it more then He talked about Heaven.

JUDE teaches that in some cases when trying to lead somone to Christ, they will only be convinced by ..

"""""others (unbelievers) you must try to save, as brands plucked from the flames; (of Hell)"

This means that some people wont react to "God is love" and ""Jesus loves you""", but they will react to the strong idea when presented to them.... that Hell is real and they are going there unless Christ interveins for them.

Wake up. @Mink57. your Cult owns your mind.

Read what I wrote again. YOU nor anyone else has the right to judge WHO is in hell. The reason I say this is because YOU nor anyone else has any idea what 'condition' any person's state of their heart is. You have no idea whether a person uses their last dying breath to ask for forgiveness...or whether or not they're forgiven. If you do that, you're putting yourself above God.

 

[Behold]

Wait a sec...I'm not seeing that in Jn21. Verses?

Wait a sec...did Jesus give Paul the correct understanding of the Gospel or of the Scriptures? I recall that he gave ALL of the Apostles the correct understanding of the Scriptures....

There are no verses that say that Jesus gave all the Apostle the Gospel., as He didnt.
He Gave it to Paul.....and that is why Paul calls the Gospel...."MY Gospel" 3x in the NT.

So. there is the verse that Says that Jesus, once back in Heaven, called Saul, to become PAUL the Apostle..... and to PAUL, Jesus revealed the "Gospel of the Grace of God".
In Acts 15, Paul shared it with all the apostles, including Peter.

Well, the RCC sees him as a Pope. And I can see why. Since the RCC doesn't limit herself to ONLY what's written in the Bible,

Listen,
when you add to the Bible, Catholic man made theological concepts, such as "mary flew to heaven in her dead body"..... and then teach that the Bible is not the final authority, but WE ARE, Our Traditions,......... and what OUR Church fathers say, override the bible.....then yes, you are correct, as that is what the "cult of Mary does., continually.

"Which ever one that brings you closer to God." I thought that was a brilliant answer.

So, he' a liar.
Dont believe Liars who sell books by fooling gullible christians with a false "supernatual experience'" they want you to know about for only $20 per book.

Listen.

The "broad way that lead to destruction" = is all religions, or as Barak Obama says, and Satan teaches....>>"there are many Paths to God".

Jesus however denies their Lies......and corrects their lies by saying in John 14:6 .....>>"""I am THE TRUTH and no one comes to the FATHER, but by ME""".

Not by Buddha.
Not By Mary
Not by Water.

See that? That is not a "religion"......That is the only WAY that God has provided so that any sinner can come To God.
What is that WAY?

A.) THE CROSS OF CHRIST, and that is not a Religion......That is God come down, wrapped in Human Flesh, virgin born... to become One of US= to Offer Salvation to ALL of Us, as The Cross of CHRIST.

One reason why I like the Catholic religion is because it doesn't discourage or prohibit you from going outside of the bible to get a better understanding of it.

The bible is self interpreting......like this...... The words in the bible are "spiritually discerned"., by the Holy Spirit, who is inside the born again, and this is revealed as the "eyes of your understanding"... getting "revelation".
The bible offers that to every Real Christian., and never to a water baptized relisgious "whatever".

Paul's Theology, is what you are to learn...

Start with Hebrews 13:9
Then Romans 3:21-28

Then..

Colossians 2:11

Romans 4:8

2 Corin 5:19

here's a difference between classifying one's self as a homosexual and a practicing homosexual.

Here is what defines a homosexusal mind.., as as you THINK so your ARE the Bible Teaches.

A.) "homosexual tendencies".....and that is always found controlling the Mind of a : Homosexual.

A popular secular song, by a Lesbian, explaines that......as "Constant Craving"..

The only thing that might not have began in the Young Homosexual ...., is the lifestyle that is the certain fruit of the Homosexual tendencies...

So, if you allow males with "Homosexual tendencies" , to become Catholic Priests, then you are creating a Factory of Religous Homosexuals.
Bad idea.

Hopefully.... this latest Head of the CC "Leo"..., is going to stop that dead in its tracks, or the CC is going to revolt, as millions were already praying that Francis would Die years ago.
Even Mel Gibson......the Actor.......a devout Catholic...who loves Jesus...was Holding his Nose every time someone mentioned Pope Francis.
And that is the correct analysis.

In all honesty, how many of the 1.3 billion Catholics actually go by what the Pope says?

Probably just the ones on this Thread..........are Real Ring Kissing Romans Catholics.

Right?

 

[Behold]

Read what I wrote again. YOU nor anyone else has the right to judge WHO is in hell.

God has given us a NT verse so that we can all not just Judge but KNOW who is going to Hell.

I have a Thread on this forum and others...... that literally explains....>"How to know... if YOU are going to Hell".

Its John 3:36.
-
New International Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

New Living Translation
And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”

English Standard Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Berean Standard Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

Berean Literal Bible
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

King James Bible
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

New King James Version
He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

New American Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.”

NASB 1995
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

NASB 1977
“He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Legacy Standard Bible
He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Amplified Bible
He who believes and trusts in the Son and accepts Him [as Savior] has eternal life [that is, already possesses it]; but he who does not believe the Son and chooses to reject Him, [disobeying Him and denying Him as Savior] will not see [eternal] life, but [instead] the wrath of God hangs over him continually.”

Christian Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who rejects the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
The one who believes in the Son has eternal life, but the one who refuses to believe in the Son will not see life; instead, the wrath of God remains on him.

American Standard Version
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Contemporary English Version
Everyone who has faith in the Son has eternal life. But no one who rejects him will ever share in that life, and God will be angry with them forever.

English Revised Version
He that believeth on the Son hath eternal life; but he that obeyeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, he will see God's constant anger."

 

[rockytopva]

The Apostle Paul claimed leadership over the Gentiles...

For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: - Romans 11:13
But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: - Galatians 2:7-8

So... Two Popes here...

The Pope of the circumcision - Peter
The Pope of the uncircumcision - Paul

So to get circumcised into the Catholic church... I hear the circumcisions begin at $3,500 at your local hospital. Someone to hold your hand through the experience.... Well... That may be a little extra.... And may have some laughing to put up with as well!

 

[shepherdsword]

No, you listed some successors of Peter and said to me, "It's simple to see that the popes listed were not successors of the apostles". I asked you to explain how and heard crickets in response. I still hear 'em.

Then get them out of your ear. I have said it twice and I will say it again, one more time. I will type slowly so you can understand.
those popes cannot be successors because they are wicked men

 

[Rockerduck]

I'm sorry @Behold, but I don't think you or anyone else has any right to judge WHO is in hell...

Just saying.

If they are in HELL, they have already been judged to eternal torment.

 

[Behold]

Lets find out who understands..what ISNT Salvation.

Here is a little story.

Its a nice Spring morning, and a Catholic Priest, in a Local Perish in Midville USA, has just finished laying out 2 sets of "baptismal" robes and 2 large white towels, right after He filled up the baptismal pool with water and then heated it with the flip of a switch.

He then steps outside, and looking around he sees a street-person, homeless, that he's seen many times.
The Priest gets his attention, and says.....>"Friend, do you want to go to Heaven when you die".
The street person is surprised by this question, but immediately says.....>"yes i do, father."
The Priest says......ok, come on inside the Church.

Its now 10 mins later and now both the Priest and the Homeless man are wearing the Church's supplied "baptimal robes"..

The Priest now leads the barefoot Homeless man into the warm baptimal waters and begins to lower the homeless man down into the water so that He is submerged.
And while lowering Him, the Priest says outloud, loudly, so that the man can hear...>>"i baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit".....and then he brings the homeless man back up, and then both go quietly to the dry towels and the fresh robes...

10 mins later the Priest walks the Homeless man to the door of the Chruch, and as the man is leaving the Priest says......Congratulations, you are now a Chrisitan, your sins are all forgiven, and you are going to Heaven.
-

A.) Reader, ..........if you believe that this Homeless man is now a Christian and will go to Heaven, then you are truly deceived by a Cult.

 

[Mink57]

There are no verses that say that Jesus gave all the Apostle the Gospel., as He didnt.
He Gave it to Paul.....and that is why Paul calls the Gospel...."MY Gospel" 3x in the NT.

Ok.....and....?

So. there is the verse that Says that Jesus, once back in Heaven, called Saul, to become PAUL the Apostle..... and to PAUL, Jesus revealed the "Gospel of the Grace of God".
In Acts 15, Paul shared it with all the apostles, including Peter.

Again, verse?

Listen,
when you add to the Bible, Catholic man made theological concepts, such as "mary flew to heaven in her dead body"..... and then teach that the Bible is not the final authority, but WE ARE, Our Traditions,......... and what OUR Church fathers say, override the bible.....then yes, you are correct, as that is what the "cult of Mary does., continually.

Wait a minute...just because the RCC uses other sources doesn't mean it's "adding to" the bible. I don't recall if it was you or someone else on the thread that got shut down, that Mary was "14 years old at the time of"....what? Conceiving of Jesus? I asked WHERE that member got their information from. Unfortunately, that thread was shut down before I got an answer.

So, he' a liar.
Dont believe Liars who sell books by fooling gullible christians with a false "supernatual experience'" they want you to know about for only $20 per book.

Oh stop...

Listen.

The "broad way that lead to destruction" = is all religions, or as Barak Obama says, and Satan teaches....>>"there are many Paths to God".

Jesus however denies their Lies......and corrects their lies by saying in John 14:6 .....>>"""I am THE TRUTH and no one comes to the FATHER, but by ME""".

Yes you're right! Jesus IS the TRUTH. But just because other religions, including the RCC practice differently doesn't mean they're on some path to 'destruction'.

Not by Buddha.
Not By Mary
Not by Water.

See that? That is not a "religion"......That is the only WAY that God has provided so that any sinner can come To God.
What is that WAY?

A.) THE CROSS OF CHRIST, and that is not a Religion......That is God come down, wrapped in Human Flesh, virgin born... to become One of US= to Offer Salvation to ALL of Us, as The Cross of CHRIST.

"The Way" is what Jesus teaches. Not ONLY his death...his Resurrection...but ALL of his teachings. His #1 teaching is, "Love God...Love eachother" That's pretty much it.

The bible is self interpreting......like this...... The words in the bible are "spiritually discerned"., by the Holy Spirit, who is inside the born again, and this is revealed as the "eyes of your understanding"... getting "revelation".
The bible offers that to every Real Christian., and never to a water baptized relisgious "whatever".

So, go ahead and make the bible as YOUR "idol" the same way that you think Catholics make Mary as theirs.

Paul's Theology, is what you are to learn...

Start with Hebrews 13:9
Then Romans 3:21-28

Then..

Colossians 2:11

Romans 4:8

2 Corin 5:19



Here is what defines a homosexusal mind.., as as you THINK so your ARE the Bible Teaches.

A.) "homosexual tendencies".....and that is always found controlling the Mind of a : Homosexual.

A popular secular song, by a Lesbian, explaines that......as "Constant Craving"..

The only thing that might not have began in the Young Homosexual ...., is the lifestyle that is the certain fruit of the Homosexual tendencies...

So, if you allow males with "Homosexual tendencies" , to become Catholic Priests, then you are creating a Factory of Religous Homosexuals.
Bad idea.

Hopefully.... this latest Head of the CC "Leo"..., is going to stop that dead in its tracks, or the CC is going to revolt, as millions were already praying that Francis would Die years ago.
Even Mel Gibson......the Actor.......a devout Catholic...who loves Jesus...was Holding his Nose every time someone mentioned Pope Francis.
And that is the correct analysis.




Probably just the ones on this Thread..........are Real Ring Kissing Romans Catholics.

Right?

*Yawn*

Been there, done that. Heard it all before.

 

[rockytopva]

My beliefs are that there are seven general congregations. In which, Christ, desiring an early judgement... Took issues with...

Messianic - Started by the Apostle Peter
Martyr - Started by the Apostle Paul - There would be 10 general Roman persecutions
Orthodox - Started by Constantine - In which he moved to Constantinople.
Catholic - I don't believe the Catholic Church was actually organized until Pope Saint Gregory I around 600 AD
Protestant - Sardis - Gem - Elegant yet rigid. Started by Martin Luther.
Methodist - Philadelphia - I would put the beginnings of this church with the non-conformist, John Bunyan
Charismatic - Laodicea - Rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing?

I believe the Catholic church a Christian church... But... They will have much non-Catholic company with them in heaven!