Apostolic Succession.

[Origen]

"Jesus formed a hierarchy when He chose His successors, gave them authority, and accumulated believers"

Jesus did not form a hierarchy

Uh, yea He did.

A hierarchy is made up of someone who commands (God), someone who transmits orders (the apostles and their successors), and those who obey (the believers).

 

[Origen]

What is in dispute is the theology that successors of the apostles were given that ability.

You should look up the definition of the word "successor"....

 

[shepherdsword]

Uh, yea He did.

A hierarchy is made up of someone who commands (God), someone who transmits orders (the apostles and their successors), and those who obey (the believers).

There are no successors to the apostles. The papal office is antichrist (anti meaning "instead of") So even, if Jesus did form some hierarchy ( which the bible proves he didn't) It would not be found in the RCC (The whore of babylon)

 

[Origen]

There are no successors to the apostles.

Matthias was the first to succeed one of the twelve apostles (Judas of Kerioth). It's in the Book of Acts. So, there is apostolic succession and it has continued to this day, over two thousand years later.

So even, if Jesus did form some hierarchy ( which the bible proves he didn't)

A hierarchy is made up of someone who commands (God), someone who transmits orders (the apostles and their successors), and those who obey (the believers).

So, uh, yea He did form a hierarchy.

 

[NotTheRock]

Uh, yea He did.

Verse?

 

[Origen]

Verse?

A hierarchy isn't a verse. A hierarchy is a system or organization in which people or groups are ranked one above the other according to status or authority. In other words, a hierarchy is made up of someone who commands (God), someone who transmits orders (the apostles and their successors), and those who obey (the believers).

 

[NotTheRock]

You should look up the definition of the word "successor"....

And you should open a Bible.

 

[NotTheRock]

Please read the following and then tell us why Catholics reject Paul's warning? Jesus never intended for Christian church leaders to abstain from marriage. Even Peter was married!

1 Timothy 4
English Standard Version
Some Will Depart from the Faith
4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage...

No comment, @Origen ?

 

[Origen]

And you should open a Bible.

It's been open and I've been using it as I speak to you.

 

[Origen]

No comment, @Origen ?

Um, you were speaking to someone else so how was I to know you were wanting me to respond to it?...

 

[NotTheRock]

Um, you were speaking to someone else so how was I to know you were wanting me to respond to it?...

I understand. No worries. Take care.

 

[Grailhunter]

Read the other post I wrote.....about marriage/infidelity.

Is it "delusional" to believe that once married that we should expect sexual fidelity?

Once married, we KNOW that we're CHOOSING to remain sexually faithful to our spouse. And once a Catholic priest decides to become a priest, he knowingly CHOOSES to remain celibate.

If priests could do that the Catholic Church would not have such a bad reputation.

All I am saying is that the celibacy thing is driving the Church in the wrong direction.

I am not saying I do not like Catholics or the Catholic Church.

 

[Origen]

All I am saying is that the celibacy thing is driving the Church in the wrong direction.

Immoralities can be and are committed by people who aren't celibate too. Therefore, celibacy in and of itself isn't the problem.

 

[Grailhunter]

Immoralities can be and are committed by people who aren't celibate too. Therefore, celibacy in and of itself isn't the problem.

Your logic is flawed.
Horny priests are not some one you want to send you wife or daughter to...even young boys get victimizd

Now this is the last time I am going to explain this to you ….

 

[Origen]

Your logic is flawed.
Horny priests are not some one you want to send you wife or daughter to...even young boys get victimizd

I don't see Buddhist monks—who are also supposed to be celibate—receiving the same amount of hate or the same accusations that they are automatically too lustful to control themselves when they are around...whoever. Celibacy doesn't automatically make one uncontrollably lustful as you assume.

That's insane.

 

[quietthinker]

Your logic is flawed.
Horny priests are not some one you want to send you wife or daughter to...even young boys get victimizd

Now this is the last time I am going to explain this to you ….

Is it not clear, a truth rejected is not brought into focus for the rejecter with explanations, no matter how many times they are repeated.

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't see Buddhist monks—who are also supposed to be celibate—receiving the same amount of hate or the same accusations that they are automatically too lustful to control themselves when they are around...whoever. Celibacy doesn't automatically make one uncontrollably lustful as you assume.

That's insane.

post 134

 

[Origen]

post 134

Yea I read it and responded to it saying that I don't see Buddhist monks—who are also supposed to be celibate—receiving the same amount of hate or the same accusations that they are automatically too lustful to control themselves when they are around...whoever. Celibacy doesn't automatically make one uncontrollably lustful as you assume.

That's insane.

 

[shepherdsword]

Matthias was the first to succeed one of the twelve apostles (Judas of Kerioth). It's in the Book of Acts. So, there is apostolic succession and it has continued to this day, over two thousand years later.

There are no modern successors. Let's look at some you claim are in the line of succession:

Pope Stephen VI	896–897	Conducted the infamous "Cadaver Synod", exhuming and putting his predecessor Formosus on trial.
Pope John XII	955–964	Accused of blasphemy, simony, murder, and sexual immorality. Died under suspicious circumstances.
Pope Benedict IX	1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048	Held the papacy three times, allegedly sold the office, known for moral corruption.
Pope Boniface VIII	1294–1303	Known for power struggles with kings, accused posthumously of heresy and corruption by enemies.
Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia)	1492–1503	Fathered multiple children, used the papacy for nepotism, bribery, and political intrigue.
Pope Leo X	1513–1521	Issued indulgences that provoked Martin Luther's Reformation, lived lavishly.
Pope Julius II	1503–1513	A "warrior pope" more interested in politics and warfare than spiritual reform.
Pope Clement VII	1523–1534	His indecision during the Reformation and Sack of Rome damaged the Church's prestige.
Pope Urban VI	1378–1389	His harsh temperament caused the Western Schism, a major split in the Church.

A hierarchy is made up of someone who commands (God), someone who transmits orders (the apostles and their successors), and those who obey (the believers).

So, uh, yea He did form a hierarchy.

You ignore the scriptures to cling to your tradition. Stop ignoring these verses

Authority:
Mt 20:25-28 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

The real mediator between God and man. Not the pope,not mary, not the saints in heaven:

1 Ti 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time

 

[Origen]

There are no modern successors. Let's look at some you claim are in the line of succession:

Pope Stephen VI	896–897	Conducted the infamous "Cadaver Synod", exhuming and putting his predecessor Formosus on trial.
Pope John XII	955–964	Accused of blasphemy, simony, murder, and sexual immorality. Died under suspicious circumstances.
Pope Benedict IX	1032–1044, 1045, 1047–1048	Held the papacy three times, allegedly sold the office, known for moral corruption.
Pope Boniface VIII	1294–1303	Known for power struggles with kings, accused posthumously of heresy and corruption by enemies.
Pope Alexander VI (Rodrigo Borgia)	1492–1503	Fathered multiple children, used the papacy for nepotism, bribery, and political intrigue.
Pope Leo X	1513–1521	Issued indulgences that provoked Martin Luther's Reformation, lived lavishly.
Pope Julius II	1503–1513	A "warrior pope" more interested in politics and warfare than spiritual reform.
Pope Clement VII	1523–1534	His indecision during the Reformation and Sack of Rome damaged the Church's prestige.
Pope Urban VI	1378–1389	His harsh temperament caused the Western Schism, a major split in the Church.

What are you trying to say? Clarify yourself, please, thanks.

You ignore the scriptures to cling to your tradition. Stop ignoring these verses

Authority:
Mt 20:25-28 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

The real mediator between God and man. Not the pope,not mary, not the saints in heaven:

1 Ti 2:5-6 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time

What those verses say is true, as is what Jesus said to Peter: ""I tell you that you are Peter [...] I will give you the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven", which means giving him the authority to make decisions on earth that will be reflected in Heaven."