Apostolicity

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CoreIssue

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I agree we shouldn't divert into baptismal regeneration quite yet.

But what I see the Didache saying is that when performing "Baptisms", you can either baptise or pour.

I see a rite known as Baptism, which can be done by immersion (baptism) or pouring.

But pouring clearly seems to me to be an alternative to immersion, which is identified using different words.

I realize what you are saying about the didache teaching of "Baptism", just the same, it makes a distinction between immersing and pouring, using baptidzo as the preferred method and "pouring", "ekxeon", for an acceptible alternate.

I wait to see if you think the same, but does this clarify our discussion?

The Didache teaches Baptism may be performed by either immersing or pouring, and the word for immersion is baptidzo, and the word for pouring is ekxeon.

Does this suit you?

Much love!
Mark

Water baptism is symbolic of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Are we sprinkled or immersed in the Holy Spirit?

Rising with Christ from the grave. Was he sprinkled or immersed in the earth?

Did John the Baptist sprinkle immerse?

Sprinkle is nowhere to be found in the Bible.
 

BreadOfLife

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For salvation I agree. But water baptism isn't for salvation.
We're not Baptized in the Spirit until we are Baptized with Water .
It's Water AND Spirit (John 3:5) - not either/or . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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No.

All you're doing is elevating priests.
"No" is not a valid, evidence-based response.
It is an opinion - and you KNOW what they say about opinions.

If you have no Scriptural evidence - then you're simply blowing HOT WIND . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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Which brings on an interesting question.
In Catholicism what about self baptism?
There is no valid self baptism because Baptism doesn't just do ONE thing.
It regenerates, yes - but it is also a public declaration of your sonship in the Lord. We are initiated into the Family of God.

Baptizing yourself in secret defeats the purpose and leaves the Church OUT of it.
We are not "Lone Rangers" - we are the FAMILY of God.
 
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CoreIssue

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There is no valid self baptism because Baptism doesn't just do ONE thing.
It regenerates, yes - but it is also a public declaration of your sonship in the Lord. We are initiated into the Family of God.

Baptizing yourself in secret defeats the purpose and leaves the Church OUT of it.
We are not "Lone Rangers" - we are the FAMILY of God.

The Bible leaves the church out.

Jesus was baptized outside the church and had no need for regeneration. It was purely symbolic.

Bible talks about people who the Holy Spirit came to that were later baptized.

And others the Holy Spirit came to with no word of baptism.
 

BreadOfLife

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The Bible leaves the church out.
Jesus was baptized outside the church and had no need for regeneration. It was purely symbolic.
Bible talks about people who the Holy Spirit came to that were later baptized.
And others the Holy Spirit came to with no word of baptism.
Never form your doctrines around the exceptions to the rule - and there are ALWAYS exceptions.
The Thief on the cross was one such exception.

And WHO is claiming that Jesus needed regeneration?? YOU ain't HIM.
There is NOTHING that is "purely symbolic" about Baptism.
 

CoreIssue

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Never form your doctrines around the exceptions to the rule - and there are ALWAYS exceptions.
The Thief on the cross was one such exception.

And WHO is claiming that Jesus needed regeneration?? YOU ain't HIM.
There is NOTHING that is "purely symbolic" about Baptism.

Thief on the cross was still under Mosaic law.
 

charity

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What makes something "apostolic?"

Catholics believe their church is such based on a bizarre reference to "succession." (As if there was a family kingship being passed down)

Others believe it means the "headship of Christ"....whatever that means in practical terms.

But mostly people are unconcerned about how apostolic their doctrine and practice is....as long as it is somewhat biblical

What say you?

Do you espouse apostolic doctrine? Engage in apostolic fellowship?
Hello again, @Episkopos,

Your thread has been derailed it seems and is now concerned only with water baptism. However I would like to comment on your question, 'Do you espouse apostolic doctrine?

In answer to that I have to say, 'Yes', for the doctrine administered by the Apostle Paul as Steward of the mystery made known in his letters from prison at the end of the Acts period is vital to the church which is the Body of Christ of which I am a member, including that of the epistle to the Romans.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 

CoreIssue

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Hello again, @Episkopos,

Your thread has been derailed it seems and is now concerned only with water baptism. However I would like to comment on your question, 'Do you espouse apostolic doctrine?

In answer to that I have to say, 'Yes', for the doctrine administered by the Apostle Paul as Steward of the mystery made known in his letters from prison at the end of the Acts period is vital to the church which is the Body of Christ of which I am a member, including that of the epistle to the Romans.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

There is no such thing as apostolic succession.

The apostles were never considered part of a local church.

When the 12 were gone no one succeeded.

The ones who come closest to that role today are missionaries. They are not prophets. The Bible was completed with the 12.

I agree baptism is a different issue.

Even back then writings of the apostles were considered scriptures and taught. That continues today.

Same with Old Testament.
 

CoreIssue

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Water baptism is symbolic of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Are we sprinkled or immersed in the Holy Spirit?

Rising with Christ from the grave. Was he sprinkled or immersed in the earth?

Did John the Baptist sprinkle immerse?

Sprinkle is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

Still no answer from BOF.
 

BreadOfLife

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Christ was.
That doesn't matter.
We're not talking about Christ. We're talking about the Thief on the cross.

For all we know, he was a gentile and a pagan - and NOT under the Law.
 

CoreIssue

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That doesn't matter.
We're not talking about Christ. We're talking about the Thief on the cross.

For all we know, he was a gentile and a pagan - and NOT under the Law.

And under Mosaic law no one was born again until the resurrection of Christ. No baptism in the Law.

And if a pagan on the cross why did Christ say he would be with him in paradise?
 

BreadOfLife

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Water baptism is symbolic of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Are we sprinkled or immersed in the Holy Spirit?
Rising with Christ from the grave. Was he sprinkled or immersed in the earth?

Did John the Baptist sprinkle immerse?
Sprinkle is nowhere to be found in the Bible.

Still no answer from BOF.
More ignorance . . .

First of all - Buiried in the earth and immersed in water are two DIFFERENT things.
Burial is not "immersion.

Secondly - we don't know what John the Baptist did because Scripture is SILENT on the matter.
NOWHERE does it talk about immersion.

Finally - Sprinkling is ABSOLUTELY mentioned in Scripture - in the passage prophesying Baptism:

Ezek 36:24-26
For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. I will SPRINKLE clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

It talks about SPRINKLING and REGENERATION . . .