Apostolicity

[BreadOfLife]

And under Mosaic law no one was born again until the resurrection of Christ. No baptism in the Law.

And if a pagan on the cross why did Christ say he would be with him in paradise?

Because even a pagan can be saved by turning to Christ.
You didn't know that??

 

[CoreIssue]

More ignorance . . .

First of all - Buiried in the earth and immersed in water are two DIFFERENT things.
Burial is not "immersion.

Secondly - we don't know what John the Baptist did because Scripture is SILENT on the matter.
NOWHERE does it talk about immersion.

Finally - Sprinkling is ABSOLUTELY mentioned in Scripture - in the passage prophesying Baptism:

Ezek 36:24-26
For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. I will SPRINKLE clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

It talks about SPRINKLING and REGENERATION . . .

He baptized in rivers as stated in the Bible.

 

[CoreIssue]

Because even a pagan can be saved by turning to Christ.
You didn't know that??

Still no water baptism and still under Mosaic law.

 

[BreadOfLife]

He baptized in rivers as stated in the Bible.

And the Bible doesn't say a WORD about immersion.
You can baptize by pouring - even in a river . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Still no water baptism and still under Mosaic law.

Once again, Einstein - if he was a gentile - he was NOT under the Law.
NOTHING you can say will change that . . .

 

[complete]

You don't even know if the Thief on the cross was Jewish.

Don't be silly!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Don't be silly!

What's "silly" about that?

 

[complete]

What's "silly" about that?

His words to the Lord, and the Lord's reply to him make it obvious that he was of that nationality.
* I can't refer to you by your user name, I'm afraid: for there is only One deserving of that title.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

There is no such thing as apostolic succession.

The apostles were never considered part of a local church.

When the 12 were gone no one succeeded.

The ones who come closest to that role today are missionaries. They are not prophets. The Bible was completed with the 12.

I agree baptism is a different issue.

Even back then writings of the apostles were considered scriptures and taught. That continues today.

Same with Old Testament.

* You are preaching to the converted, my friend. I also do not believe in apostolic succession. However, Paul was a 'called' apostle: according to the will of God @CoreIssue, and his teaching is vitally important for us today.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[BreadOfLife]

His words to the Lord, and the Lord's reply to him make it obvious that he was of that nationality.
I can't refer to you by your user name, I'm afraid: for there is only One deserving of that title.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Actually - his nationality is NOT obvious.
That entire area was ROMAN territory and governed by ROMAN law - so everybody was subject to them.

The Bible is silent about the Thief's nationality.

 

[BreadOfLife]

* You are preaching to the converted, my friend. I also do not believe in apostolic succession. However, Paul was a 'called' apostle: according to the will of God.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

That's funny - the BIBLE does . . .
Acts 1:20
"Let another take his office"

The Greek word used here for "office" is "Episkopay" or, BISHOPRIC.

 

[complete]

Actually - his nationality is NOT obvious.
That entire area was ROMAN territory and governed by ROMAN law - so everybody was subject to them.

The Bible is silent about the Thief's nationality.

* But the context is not silent, he spoke, our Lord replied, and that said it all. Only an Israelite, could know about the kingdom looked for by Israel, for whom Christ, as their Messiah would be king: and only an Israelite would understand the Lord's reference made to him concerning 'paradise', which will be in the Kingdom which is of Heaven, which will come down onto the New Earth - the New Jerusalem, in which will be the tree of life, as was in the paradise in Eden; in which the Lord Jesus promised him a place.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

That's funny - the BIBLE does . . .
Acts 1:20
"Let another take his office"

The Greek word used here for "office" is "Episkopay" or, BISHOPRIC.

The 'office' was as a disciple, one of the twelve, who were also Apostles, chosen by the Lord Jesus Christ: their primary purpose was to act as witnesses of Christ. That was the office, and one which required a twelfth, after the death of Judas, and whose office was subsequently filled by Divine choice: not by that of man. Their choice and purpose was unique, as apostles to the circumcision and not replicated: requiring as it did having witnessed the words and work of Christ and His subsequent death and resurrection.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CoreIssue]

* You are preaching to the converted, my friend. I also do not believe in apostolic succession. However, Paul was a 'called' apostle: according to the will of God @CoreIssue, and his teaching is vitally important for us today.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I agree. I thought the topic was apostolate today.

We are good to go!

 

[complete]

I agree. I thought the topic was apostolate today.

We are good to go!

Hi @CoreIssue,

The word Apostolic is again a word and category of man's choosing, and so a bed of possible error and flaw.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CoreIssue]

Hi @CoreIssue,

The word Apostolic is again a word and category of man's choosing, and so a bed of possible error and flaw.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I would say it a little differently. Subject to man's interpretation.

 

[BreadOfLife]

* But the context is not silent, he spoke, our Lord replied, and that said it all. Only an Israelite, could know about the kingdom looked for by Israel, for whom Christ, as their Messiah would be king: and only an Israelite would understand the Lord's reference made to him concerning 'paradise', which will be in the Kingdom which is of Heaven, which will come down onto the New Earth - the New Jerusalem, in which will be the tree of life, as was in the paradise in Eden; in which the Lord Jesus promised him a place.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

That's not necessarily true.
A Gentile could have know ALL about this without being a Jew.

The Romans knew about Jewish law and ritual - why wouldn't some of their subjects??

 

[BreadOfLife]

The 'office' was as a disciple, one of the twelve, who were also Apostles, chosen by the Lord Jesus Christ: their primary purpose was to act as witnesses of Christ. That was the office, and one which required a twelfth, after the death of Judas, and whose office was subsequently filled by Divine choice: not by that of man. Their choice and purpose was unique, as apostles to the circumcision and not replicated: requiring as it did having witnessed the words and work of Christ and His subsequent death and resurrection.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

WRONG.
If that's all it was about - then Judas didn't need to be "replaced".

Judas needed a replacement because of the successive nature of the BISHOPRIC.

Don't forget the word "Episkopay" used in Acts 1:20. It isn't just talking about some obscure reference to an "office" - it actually NAMES the office. If it were NOT a successive office - then Paul and the others wasted their time ordaining Bishops/Overseers (Episkopi) for the various growing Churches.

This is why we read in Irenaeus's "Against Heresies" some 140 years later - the SUCCESSION of the Bishops of Rome, beginning with Peter - and going all the way to his own time.

 

[Episkopos]

WRONG.
If that's all it was about - then Judas didn't need to be "replaced".

Judas needed a replacement because of the successive nature of the BISHOPRIC.

Don't forget the word "Episkopay" used in Acts 1:20. It isn't just talking about some obscure reference to an "office" - it actually NAMES the office. If it were NOT a successive office - then Paul and the others wasted their time ordaining Bishops/Overseers (Episkopi) for the various growing Churches.

This is why we read in Irenaeus's "Against Heresies" some 140 years later - the SUCCESSION of the Bishops of Rome, beginning with Peter - and going all the way to his own time.

The successors to the apostles are the bishops. We have Clement, Ignatius and Polycarp that were themselves disciples of the apostles and made overseers by the Spirit. Peter was never the bishop of a city...but an itinerant apostle. Neither was Paul a bishop. A very cursory glance at the bible will show that much.

But this idea that there is a city over other cities...Rome...because of the Roman empire...shows that the RC foundation is political not spiritual. The authority comes from the prince of this world...not Jesus Christ.

If there was to be any supremacy of a city it would have been Jerusalem. But again, no apostle was bishop in Jerusalem. For your scheme to work...Peter would have been bishop of Jerusalem...which he was not...

i think you have been influenced by the teachings of Erroneous.

 

[complete]

WRONG.
If that's all it was about - then Judas didn't need to be "replaced".

Judas needed a replacement because of the successive nature of the BISHOPRIC.

Don't forget the word "Episkopay" used in Acts 1:20. It isn't just talking about some obscure reference to an "office" - it actually NAMES the office. If it were NOT a successive office - then Paul and the others wasted their time ordaining Bishops/Overseers (Episkopi) for the various growing Churches.

This is why we read in Irenaeus's "Against Heresies" some 140 years later - the SUCCESSION of the Bishops of Rome, beginning with Peter - and going all the way to his own time.

Hello there,

The twelve were told by the Lord Jesus Christ that they would sit on twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel in what is yet a future day of God's choosing. I don't care about your words and their meanings, be they Greek, Hebrew, or Hindustani. The Lord required that there be twelve Apostles, to accomplish God's purpose for them: that is why Judas had to be replaced. Will your Pope's sit on one of those twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel, I don't think so!!!

* Get real, and read your Bible, not the rhetoric of the papal office. This is the end of my discussion with you: and if you had any decency you would change your user name, for only One has the right to that title, and it surely is not you.

In Christ Jesus
Chris.