Nothing is wrong with that—- unless it stems from the false belief that it is necessary for Getting Saved or Staying Saved—- THAT would make it a Perverted Addition to Paul’s Gospel and would make one “ fall from Grace” ...
Apparitions of the Virgin Mary
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Nothing is wrong with that—- unless it stems from the false belief that it is necessary for Getting Saved or Staying Saved—- THAT would make it a Perverted Addition to Paul’s Gospel and would make one “ fall from Grace” ...
K9Buck
Well-Known Member
As shared earlier, this Harvard atheist says that Jesus showed himself and that Mary did too. He also says that he met a preacher who considered Mary a sinner and, upon hearing that, knew that he and those like him should be ignored, sort of like I'm doing. Amazing!
Like the rest of us, Mary was born a sinner. I'm not putting her down but worshipping anyone but God is a really bad idea. These lights are the enemy. During one event, a metallic disc-shaped vehicle was seen flying nearby. But since the Pope wanted to baptize aliens, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. BTW - They are not aliens.
When Jesus asked Peter who he thought He was, Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God." Matthew 16:16 This revelation from God is the foundation of the congregation (church). The foundation laid by the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus the chief cornerstone. Peter, the little rock, was a church founder but not the foundation.
It shouldn't be surprising that the first stone laid in the church was Christ Himself. When a cornerstone is laid, all other stones are laid according to it. So when we build our wall of Salvation, we can build in plumb with the word because Christ is our blueprint.
When we dig down to the rock and build on it, storms may blow but once they are gone, we are still standing.
When Jesus asked Peter who he thought He was, Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God." Matthew 16:16 This revelation from God is the foundation of the congregation (church). The foundation laid by the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus the chief cornerstone. Peter, the little rock, was a church founder but not the foundation.
It shouldn't be surprising that the first stone laid in the church was Christ Himself. When a cornerstone is laid, all other stones are laid according to it. So when we build our wall of Salvation, we can build in plumb with the word because Christ is our blueprint.
When we dig down to the rock and build on it, storms may blow but once they are gone, we are still standing.
K9Buck
Well-Known Member
I doubt it, but we can agree to disagree on this trivial point. We'll know the answer one glorious day!
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
There are two major issues with this entire thread.
First, most Protestants cannot effectively argue against Mary's supposed mediatorial because like Catholics, they believe the "soul" goes immediately to heaven thus disregarding the need to wait for the resurrection. Praying to the dead, even though it is believed such dead are in heaven, is occult.
Second, the concept of the "immaculate conception" destroys one of the beauties of the gospel. The idea that Mary was miraculously delivered from "original sin"* in order to be "holy" enough to give birth to Jesus denies one of the wonders of the incarnation...that Jesus, as a human, was as one of us. He also was born with the same flesh because He was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. If He wasn't as one of us, then He cannot be our example because according to the doctrine of immaculate conception, He was born with a distinct advantage over us. What He did not have was the natural propensity to sin that is inherited through Adam. What He did have was the fleshly carnal nature of man which He had to contend with on a daily basis just as we do. Jesus proved that sin can be overcome by uniting with the divine. The immaculate conception theory makes the whole temptation event a farce. Jesus was different from His birth in that He was born with the divine nature from the beginning. We are born with the divine nature at our conversion. But we still must face temptation just as Jesus did, and we can still sin if we give in to temptation, just as Jesus could have if He had given in to temptation. There is no Biblical evidence that Mary was born different to anyone else. Yes, she was highly favored. She received that which every Jewish girl hoped for for centuries...to give birth to the Messiah. Mary was awesome also in that she raised her Son and taught Him the things of God from His youth. It was her training as a mother that set the foundation for His ministry.
*a concept I happen to disagree with because we are only judged for our own offenses, no-one else's...children are born innocent but with the human sin/flesh/carnal nature which means they have a powerful inevitability to sin that is attested to the first time they open their mouth.
First, most Protestants cannot effectively argue against Mary's supposed mediatorial because like Catholics, they believe the "soul" goes immediately to heaven thus disregarding the need to wait for the resurrection. Praying to the dead, even though it is believed such dead are in heaven, is occult.
Second, the concept of the "immaculate conception" destroys one of the beauties of the gospel. The idea that Mary was miraculously delivered from "original sin"* in order to be "holy" enough to give birth to Jesus denies one of the wonders of the incarnation...that Jesus, as a human, was as one of us. He also was born with the same flesh because He was tempted in all points as we are, yet without sin. If He wasn't as one of us, then He cannot be our example because according to the doctrine of immaculate conception, He was born with a distinct advantage over us. What He did not have was the natural propensity to sin that is inherited through Adam. What He did have was the fleshly carnal nature of man which He had to contend with on a daily basis just as we do. Jesus proved that sin can be overcome by uniting with the divine. The immaculate conception theory makes the whole temptation event a farce. Jesus was different from His birth in that He was born with the divine nature from the beginning. We are born with the divine nature at our conversion. But we still must face temptation just as Jesus did, and we can still sin if we give in to temptation, just as Jesus could have if He had given in to temptation. There is no Biblical evidence that Mary was born different to anyone else. Yes, she was highly favored. She received that which every Jewish girl hoped for for centuries...to give birth to the Messiah. Mary was awesome also in that she raised her Son and taught Him the things of God from His youth. It was her training as a mother that set the foundation for His ministry.
*a concept I happen to disagree with because we are only judged for our own offenses, no-one else's...children are born innocent but with the human sin/flesh/carnal nature which means they have a powerful inevitability to sin that is attested to the first time they open their mouth.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I have said before that the concept of original sin is a lie.
You really need to look at the writings of Augustine, he was a nut case.
You say....There is no Biblical evidence that Mary was born different to anyone else.
That is true there is very little about Mary in the Bible and anyone that formulates their religious beliefs solely on the Bible should leave the Whole Mary thing alone.....But instead of stomping all over Christ's mother, it is better to say, "I do not believe that."
Now I am not saying that you have stomped all over Mary.
It does not matter if you are a Protestant or Catholic or Greek Orthodox or any number of religions, some have beliefs that are hard to understand. When you get into the beliefs of Mary you get into an era of religious beliefs that involve a large number of miracles and beliefs in relics, and rituals, and categories of religious offices that have not stood the test of time, in regard to religious behavior. These religions are the oldest of Christian religions and as examples there is a lot that we can learn from them....good and bad. They say that just because a religion is old does not mean it is right or true....but....it is certainly not correct to expect the newer religions to be right or true, just because they are new.
There are people that do not subscribe to any denomination, I call them the "church of one" But that does not mean they are not right or religious. The best thing to do with Mary, if you are not Catholic or Greek Orthodox or something along those lines, is to leave the topic alone. Don't worry about it.
Some Christian can live their lives without witnessing a single miracle. Cessationists do not generally get to see miracles and this makes me wonder. Holy Spirit miracles usually only happens in "Holy Ghost Churches" Hands on healing usually only happens in churches that believe in such things. That brings up another question; Where does the power of faith come from? Well if it comes from us...as Christ was referring to, If you had the faith of a mustered seed.... If it comes from us, our faith is going to determine the depth of our religion. Mary mostly appears to those of the Catholic faith, she usually does not interact with people that don't believe. So don't worry about if you do not believe....it is not a requirement for salvation.
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Brakelite
Well-Known Member
As an ex Catholic with friends and family who have little Mary shrines in their homes with candies and pretty pictures and statues I felt I needed to contribute. "Mary" had been known to appear to Muslims from time to time.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I am not saying she does not appear to "outsiders" just the rule. There are times she appears to hundreds and there are mixed religions.
The war torn areas is good example.
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
We must never ask the deceased to pray or intercede for us. Deuteronomy 18:11Ok...sooooo what's your point? Your statement has nothing to do with the questions I asked.
I would be extremely sceptical of any apparition, ie angels, mary, saints etc. Even if they were a beautiful ‘angel of light’...”be not deceived”
The next thing Christians should be looking for is Jesus, Who did die, then arose.
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
She is not a foreign entity to muslims. She is mentioned in Quran. They acknowledge Mary as the virgin mother of Isa...My in-laws the same. Icons, angels, papal blessings, you name it. Family tradition/dogma is hard to escape
K9Buck
Well-Known Member
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
Luke 1
46 And Mary said:
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 And my spirit has rejoiced (entirely sanctified?)
in God my Savior. (She, like all humanity, needed a Savior)
All generations will call me blessed...she was indeed
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
K9Buck
Well-Known Member
Luke 1
46 And Mary said:
“My soul magnifies the Lord,
47 And my spirit has rejoiced (entirely sanctified?)
in God my Savior. (She, like all humanity, needed a Savior)
All generations will call me blessed...she was indeed
So, based on this verse, you're positive that Mary was a sinner and, so confident about it, that you have no hesitation to preach to the world that Mary was a sinner, right?
K9Buck
Well-Known Member
2 Chr. 34:19
Well-Known Member
I believe that The Lord sanctified her, like Jeremiah and John the Baptist. She was obviously obedient... They all needed a Saviour. There’s only one-Jesus
Every human being is a sinner. Romans 5:12...
K9Buck
Well-Known Member
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
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