Are Christians Sinners?

[DuckieLady]

Yup, "the wages of sin is death" (Rm 6:23), christians are dying to beat-the-band as much as non-christian's.
Makes you wonder what they are 'saved' from, doesn't it.

Great this one is back.

Edit: Oh banned already it looks like. Thank goodness.

 

[April_Rose]

Great this one is back.

Edit: Oh banned already it looks like. Thank goodness.

Oh so they were a troll then. I figured.

 

[DuckieLady]

Oh so they were a troll then. I figured.

Worse than a troll.. A repeat troll! Pretty sure I know which one too just by the way they were talking. (Only person on here I had a fit with.) I would just flat out ignore everything they said but remember how they word things for future reference. There's a snake in the garden, the staff are on it, but the thing keeps slithering back.

 

[April_Rose]

Worse than a troll.. A repeat troll! Pretty sure I know which one too just by the way they were talking. (Only person on here I had a fit with.) I would just flat out ignore everything they said but remember how they word things for future reference. There's a snake in the garden, the staff are on it, but the thing keeps slithering back.

Well anyways,.. do you have an answer to the OP? (Thanks though I'll try to keep an eye out for them to see if they return again.)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yeah but do you know how odd that sounds? It sounds exactly the same as saying that somebody stole from you but they aren't a thief. At least in my book.

doesn't matter how odd it sounds. Sinner in the passages it appears are unbelievers. To us it may sound odd, but to teh people of th eday- they knew.

 

[DuckieLady]

Well anyways,.. do you have an answer to the OP? (Thanks though I'll try to keep an eye out for them to see if they return again.)

Sure! Trying to figure out what part you're having trouble with but let's see if this makes sense.

Humans are imperfect. We're all going to make mistakes, but we have grace.

So say you're driving after an iced hazelnut coffee with six shots of espresso, you got your jams on, and then little red/blue lights, WWHOOOP WHOOOP, aaaannnd you get pulled over. The cop says, "Did you know you were going 15 miles over the speed limit?"

You answer, "No, I wasn't paying attention. I'm sorry." (There's some repentance.)

He says, "Well, you said your sorry. I'm going to let you go." (There's forgiveness.)

Now, you're first relieved because you don't have to pay the penalty. You've been let go, but are you just going to go back to speeding? Probably not, because you've just been given that grace and you don't want to abuse it by just going back and doing the same things. You're probably going to drive more carefully. (And you're hopefully grateful.)

So we have grace but we also want to obey God's commandments the best we can. We will all make mistakes, but we have to work hard at not falling back into old patterns and abuse that grace we've been given, but he is there to forgive us if we can humble ourselves before him, but we don't need to be anxious about it. He knows our hearts and intentions - even when others don't.

 

[dev553344]

Sure! Trying to figure out what part you're having trouble with but let's see if this makes sense.

Humans are imperfect. We're all going to make mistakes, but we have grace.

So say you're driving after an iced hazelnut coffee with six shots of espresso, you got your jams on, and then little red/blue lights, WWHOOOP WHOOOP, aaaannnd you get pulled over. The cop says, "Did you know you were going 15 miles over the speed limit?"

You answer, "No, I wasn't paying attention. I'm sorry." (There's some repentance.)

He says, "Well, you said your sorry. I'm going to let you go." (There's forgiveness.)

Now, you're first relieved because you don't have to pay the penalty. You've been let go, but are you just going to go back to speeding? Probably not, because you've just been given that grace and you don't want to abuse it by just going back and doing the same things. You're probably going to drive more carefully.

So we have grace but we also want to obey God's commandments the best we can. We will all make mistakes, but we have to work hard at not falling back into old patterns and abuse that grace we've been given, but he is there to forgive us if we can humble ourselves before him, but we don't need to be anxious about it. He knows our hearts and intentions - even when others don't.

I agree with this, also I wouldn't continue in sin without seeking the Lord's help, that could be considered unbelieving in his saving power.

 

[April_Rose]

Sure! Trying to figure out what part you're having trouble with but let's see if this makes sense.

Humans are imperfect. We're all going to make mistakes, but we have grace.

So say you're driving after an iced hazelnut coffee with six shots of espresso, you got your jams on, and then little red/blue lights, WWHOOOP WHOOOP, aaaannnd you get pulled over. The cop says, "Did you know you were going 15 miles over the speed limit?"

You answer, "No, I wasn't paying attention. I'm sorry." (There's some repentance.)

He says, "Well, you said your sorry. I'm going to let you go." (There's forgiveness.)

Now, you're first relieved because you don't have to pay the penalty. You've been let go, but are you just going to go back to speeding? Probably not, because you've just been given that grace and you don't want to abuse it by just going back and doing the same things. You're probably going to drive more carefully. (And you're hopefully grateful.)

So we have grace but we also want to obey God's commandments the best we can. We will all make mistakes, but we have to work hard at not falling back into old patterns and abuse that grace we've been given, but he is there to forgive us if we can humble ourselves before him, but we don't need to be anxious about it. He knows our hearts and intentions - even when others don't.

Good analogy even though I don't drive lol but there are two problems with this. A. A police officer probably wouldn't just let that go and two,.. even though I've been more careful with trying not to sin,.. I still catch myself about not caring about it sometimes though I mostly repent for it later.

 

[dev553344]

Good analogy even though I don't drive lol but there are two problems with this. A. A police officer probably wouldn't just let that go and two,.. even though I've been more careful with trying not to sin,.. I still catch myself about not caring about it sometimes though I mostly repent for it later.

My two cents: I deal with not caring whether I sin or not, which does happen, by asking God to supply me with his will regarding the sin and all things. It's worked for me over the years. Prayer to God.

 

[April_Rose]

My two cents: I deal with not caring whether I sin or not, which does happen, by asking God to supply me with his will regarding the sin and all things. It's worked for me over the years. Prayer to God.

I wish I had that attitude, I basically beat myself up whenever I sin.

 

[dev553344]

I wish I had that attitude, I basically beat myself up whenever I sin.

I beat myself up too, eventually I get tired of it and reach out to God for help, asking specific requests from God, like blessing me with his will, but it can be any of Gods things, like love and peace He cares enough to help I've found.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Sorry I'm not getting that at all so let's try breaking it down. How would an animal sacrifice originally pay for the sins of humans? Animals can't sin because they don't have the concept of right and wrong like we do. However, just like babies and really small children who have the same issue, I still believe that they all go to Heaven since God is a fair and just God.

I'm not sure of why the Lord chose the Plan that He did, but it is what it is.

The Book of Leviticus goes over animal sacrifice a lot (chapters 4 and 5). Here's one piece:

Leviticus 4:26 NKJV - "And he shall burn all its fat on the altar, like the fat of the sacrifice of the peace offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him."

Forgiveness of sins through animal sacrifice is mentioned elsewhere, but no doubt, Jesus is that unblemished spotted lamb that ends all sacrifice. Again, the difference is that the Death of Jesus takes away the Sinful Nature, where animal sacrifice does not. Animal Sacrifice pays the debt of sin, for it is Life for Life, but it does not take away the Sinful Nature. That act of Salvation only comes through Christ.

Colossians 2:11-15 NKJV - "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."

And yes, animals do sin. In fact, God will hold animals accountable.

Genesis 9:5 NIV - "And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being." - Before the Curse of Adam and Eve was set in motion, lion and lamb once laid down together. After the Curse . . . animals began eating each other and killing humans. This is part of the "fall of man."

 

[Ziggy]

Cause I'm sort of confused about this. Anybody and everybody who isn't Jesus sins,.. but yet since we are all saved by grace and the blood of Christ, does that mean we can't actually be called sinners since God no longer looks at our sin? Then again, we still need to repent whenever we do sin so which is it? Since murders are still murders even if they've felt remorse for it and have been forgiven for it afterwards.

Jesus' Disciples asked Him to teach them how to pray. One of the verses goes;
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Peter asks, If a man sins against you, how many times should he be forgiven, seven times?
Jesus answered, not seven times but seven times seventy seven.

We are a work in progress. As clay in the Potter's hands "being" perfected.
Some will make many mistakes falling into old habits, but they now have something called Faith to grab onto to pull them out of the ditch. and set them back on the right path.

Then there is another sin. One in which someone refuses to turn from the life they lived, to be "rebellious" towards God.
Grace is like an invitation. A forgiveness to one's past. A clean slate. A new Day. A new beginning.
We are saved by Grace not because we earned it but because He loves us.
It is when we take that Grace for granted and apply it as an excuse to commit a sin and not be held accountable for it, that's a problem.
If it were true, then what reason would there be for us to need a High Priest that would be a mediator for us when we do make mistakes.

Now if you have turned your life around and you don't do the same bad habits as you once did, you avoid situations that caused you to walk in that old way you did before. It's as if your consciensness has been awakened to right and wrong, and good and evil. At which in times past you may have thought it was just the thing to do. But now you live by a higher standard. A higher moral code. So the things you used to do, you don't want to do anymore.
You want to do good. You want to please the Lord. Your whole attitude and lifestyle changes.
But this takes time. Not everyone can or does just change overnight. Some do, but for most it is a growing and learning experience.
Some old habits are harder to break than others. Like gossiping or little lies and deceptions. Things you think aren't important until the Lord's spirit begins to convict you. Stop that.

So while it is true those who have turned to God have been saved by Grace, the question becomes, saved from what?
Saved from condemnation and shame. From being in the devil's custody to the Lord's custody.
He purchased us with his own blood. To walk in Life and the Living instead of death and destruction.

No one is able to take you from the Lord's hand, however He does warn us that we can be spewed out of his mouth.
So while we are saved by Grace we can still commit sin, unknowingly or accidentely, in which we can come and ask for forgiveness.
If we trespass against eachother we can seek forgiveness from each other. And as time goes by we get stronger in truth and faith and those mistakes become less and less. The perfecting process.

But if one confesses to be a Christian and willingly and knowlingly keeps commiting sin, then they need to fear God who by Grace saved them and have chosen to diregard the gift.
This reminds me of the parable of the Marriage supper. Where many were invited but refused to come. They chose to deny God's Grace.
So many were chosen from the common people to come to the feast and accepted. By Grace and not by works. They didn't do anything to "earn" a seat at the table.
But there are those who come in and Jesus tells the parable that they didn't have a wedding garment on.
What does this mean?
I think it means that they are the ones not invited and yet sneak in anyways. To disrupt to cause division.. John speaks of these.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

No doubt if they had continued they would have had on a wedding garment.. that's how I hear it.

Anywho, just some thoughts to share
Hugs

 

[DuckieLady]

Good analogy even though I don't drive lol but there are two problems with this. A. A police officer probably wouldn't just let that go and two,.. even though I've been more careful with trying not to sin,.. I still catch myself about not caring about it sometimes though I mostly repent for it later.

You're right, a police officer wouldn't. LOL, but the officer in this is an example of Christ - and he does. See, so even though you, and I, and everyone else here, deserves the penalty - we're all let go. We just really have to appreciate that blessing.

Honestly, when you're growing up and maturing in the faith and even as you're sprouting up as a person in general, that "not caring" attitude is just kind of a thing that we all experience. You just acknowledge it, keep working at it, and ask for God's help. Really if you can start watching sermons, get into the word, and work in prayer, and shut other things off, that's when you REALLY start developing.

The fact that you're even noticing it enough to explain it and confess, or asking questions like these, already says that you're maturing in the spirit. Otherwise you would REALLY not care, but you do.

 

[quietthinker]

Cause I'm sort of confused about this. Anybody and everybody who isn't Jesus sins,.. but yet since we are all saved by grace and the blood of Christ, does that mean we can't actually be called sinners since God no longer looks at our sin? Then again, we still need to repent whenever we do sin so which is it? Since murders are still murders even if they've felt remorse for it and have been forgiven for it afterwards.

Consider this aspect A_R.....the term sin amongst others things is a designation for dysfunction. God's intent is to bring us out of dysfunction.
Will those who have met Jesus and tasted the freedom of liberation stay in dysfunction? Why on earth would they? ....reason; they have been deceived into believing there is value in it?

 

[April_Rose]

I'm not sure of why the Lord chose the Plan that He did, but it is what it is.

The Book of Leviticus goes over animal sacrifice a lot (chapters 4 and 5). Here's one piece:

Leviticus 4:26 NKJV - "And he shall burn all its fat on the altar, like the fat of the sacrifice of the peace offering. So the priest shall make atonement for him concerning his sin, and it shall be forgiven him."

Forgiveness of sins through animal sacrifice is mentioned elsewhere, but no doubt, Jesus is that unblemished spotted lamb that ends all sacrifice. Again, the difference is that the Death of Jesus takes away the Sinful Nature, where animal sacrifice does not. Animal Sacrifice pays the debt of sin, for it is Life for Life, but it does not take away the Sinful Nature. That act of Salvation only comes through Christ.

Colossians 2:11-15 NKJV - "In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."

And yes, animals do sin. In fact, God will hold animals accountable.

Genesis 9:5 NIV - "And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being." - Before the Curse of Adam and Eve was set in motion, lion and lamb once laid down together. After the Curse . . . animals began eating each other and killing humans. This is part of the "fall of man."

My brain hurts trying to understand all of your posts thus far. :/ (No offense or anything.)

Jesus' Disciples asked Him to teach them how to pray. One of the verses goes;
Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

Peter asks, If a man sins against you, how many times should he be forgiven, seven times?
Jesus answered, not seven times but seven times seventy seven.

We are a work in progress. As clay in the Potter's hands "being" perfected.
Some will make many mistakes falling into old habits, but they now have something called Faith to grab onto to pull them out of the ditch. and set them back on the right path.

Then there is another sin. One in which someone refuses to turn from the life they lived, to be "rebellious" towards God.
Grace is like an invitation. A forgiveness to one's past. A clean slate. A new Day. A new beginning.
We are saved by Grace not because we earned it but because He loves us.
It is when we take that Grace for granted and apply it as an excuse to commit a sin and not be held accountable for it, that's a problem.
If it were true, then what reason would there be for us to need a High Priest that would be a mediator for us when we do make mistakes.

Now if you have turned your life around and you don't do the same bad habits as you once did, you avoid situations that caused you to walk in that old way you did before. It's as if your consciensness has been awakened to right and wrong, and good and evil. At which in times past you may have thought it was just the thing to do. But now you live by a higher standard. A higher moral code. So the things you used to do, you don't want to do anymore.
You want to do good. You want to please the Lord. Your whole attitude and lifestyle changes.
But this takes time. Not everyone can or does just change overnight. Some do, but for most it is a growing and learning experience.
Some old habits are harder to break than others. Like gossiping or little lies and deceptions. Things you think aren't important until the Lord's spirit begins to convict you. Stop that.

So while it is true those who have turned to God have been saved by Grace, the question becomes, saved from what?
Saved from condemnation and shame. From being in the devil's custody to the Lord's custody.
He purchased us with his own blood. To walk in Life and the Living instead of death and destruction.

No one is able to take you from the Lord's hand, however He does warn us that we can be spewed out of his mouth.
So while we are saved by Grace we can still commit sin, unknowingly or accidentely, in which we can come and ask for forgiveness.
If we trespass against eachother we can seek forgiveness from each other. And as time goes by we get stronger in truth and faith and those mistakes become less and less. The perfecting process.

But if one confesses to be a Christian and willingly and knowlingly keeps commiting sin, then they need to fear God who by Grace saved them and have chosen to diregard the gift.
This reminds me of the parable of the Marriage supper. Where many were invited but refused to come. They chose to deny God's Grace.
So many were chosen from the common people to come to the feast and accepted. By Grace and not by works. They didn't do anything to "earn" a seat at the table.
But there are those who come in and Jesus tells the parable that they didn't have a wedding garment on.
What does this mean?
I think it means that they are the ones not invited and yet sneak in anyways. To disrupt to cause division.. John speaks of these.

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

No doubt if they had continued they would have had on a wedding garment.. that's how I hear it.

Anywho, just some thoughts to share
Hugs

So you're saying that we're still classified as sinners it's just that we don't have any condemnation for our sins? Also I still have some sinful bad habits but I've also a lot of them,.. and not lying (for the most part) and saying the Lord's name in vain (I never do anymore) are two big ones along with honoring my mother and my father which is something I rarely did as a kid as I continued to do things that I shouldn't have.

You're right, a police officer wouldn't. LOL, but the officer in this is an example of Christ - and he does. See, so even though you, and I, and everyone else here, deserves the penalty - we're all let go. We just really have to appreciate that blessing.

Honestly, when you're growing up and maturing in the faith and even as you're sprouting up as a person in general, that "not caring" attitude is just kind of a thing that we all experience. You just acknowledge it, keep working at it, and ask for God's help. Really if you can start watching sermons, get into the word, and work in prayer, and shut other things off, that's when you REALLY start developing.

The fact that you're even noticing it enough to explain it and confess, or asking questions like these, already says that you're maturing in the spirit. Otherwise you would REALLY not care, but you do.

Some police officers have actually been rather forgiving, but yes I do care about the fact that I shouldn't be sinning,.. but I don't always care about stopping.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

My brain hurts trying to understand all of your posts thus far. :/ (No offense or anything.)

I'm not offended at all. I've been cataloging and organizing Scripture for a few years now and I let the evidence lead the way. If I'm wrong about anything . . . I need to know.

 

[April_Rose]

I'm not offended at all. I've been cataloging and organizing Scripture for a few years now and I let the evidence lead the way. If I'm wrong about anything . . . I need to know.

Let me just show you what you did to my brain.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Let me just show you what you did to my brain.

LOL - I know . . . but if we were close by and had a chance to have a face to face on many occasions, I'm confident that it would begin to make sense. Persistency . . . that's what is required to put on a new belief system (eradicating generational theology from our minds).

 

[DNB]

The scripture that you are showing me has nothing to do with my question.
Please don't take offense to this but you are the ones confusing me. We might not be held accountable to God's law but shouldn't we still be expected to follow it?

The guys a troll April, I just reported him.