ok, i was just curious. You were just curious yourself, not part of the ulterior motive of the other two.Yep, the things that those two were saying has validity . . . at least according to the notes that I have created over the years. However, I am stuck in the middle of that issue, the issue of "is all of Israel saved" and/or is all of the world saved. Scripture has much to say about both sides . . . which explains why I was asking that we hold on . . . and at least consider.
You're all smart . . . so I am here to learn from those of you who present great arguments!
Are Christians Sinners?
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At least in other threads he has appeared to be a troll but maybe that's changed now. :/
I wouldn't beat yourself up! That's what Satan wants you to do . . . fell terrible about yourself. I don't play that game with him.
Yeah but it's really hard when you know that somebody loves you so much that they died for you yet you continue to let them down.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
No evil motives on my part. My hope is to find the Remnant . . . I'm trying to find my new Spiritual Family.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
At least in other threads he has appeared to be a troll but maybe that's changed now. :/
Yeah but it's really hard when you know that somebody loves you so much that they died for you yet you continue to let them down.
But my friend, Jesus defeated the Devil in your life, so you have no need to feel badly about yourself. The Israelite's being brought out of Egypt is a picture of you, with you being Israel, as you are led to the Heavenly Promised Holy Land. Look at what God had to say about those people:
Leviticus 26:13 NLT - "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt so you would no longer be their slaves. I broke the yoke of slavery from your neck so you can walk with your heads held high."
Believe in yourself. I believe in you just as I believe in everyone.
While it is true that we are no longer under the law (Romans 6:14), are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6); it should be clear that this is as concerning condemnation.
That we continue to be governed by the law as believers under the New Covenant is evident in such passages as Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, and Romans 13:8-10, w/ Romans 5:5.
James 1:25 and James 2:12 also speak to me on this issue.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
I am a sinner saved by grace,
paul still called himself chief of sinners, and even spoke of his struggle in Romans 7
as John said if we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us
paul still called himself chief of sinners, and even spoke of his struggle in Romans 7
as John said if we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The law was a schoolmaster to be used to lead us to Christ,
once we have found Christ the schoolmaster is no more needed
the law can not help you, is was written to prove your condemnation is just and show you How god would redeem you, not to make you righteous people.
look to the law of love, not the law of condemnation and death written on stone
Try to understand the difference between sinners and saints. All Christians are called saints in the Bible. All the unsaved are called sinners.
That does not mean sinless perfection is guaranteed to Christians, but it does mean that they have been saved by grace, and sanctified by the Holy Spirit. The title question should really be "Can Christians Sin?" and the answer is "Yes". Those who claim sinless perfection are simply deluding themselves.
At the same time, Christians have been empowered to resist sin and resist the devil. Furthermore, those who genuinely repent do not seek to return to their former sins, but commit themselves to holiness and righteousness.
2nd Timothy Group
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Hey EG!
So in Colossians 2:11-15, Paul teaches that the Sinful Nature is cut out and removed. See scripture below:
Colossians 2:11-15 NLT - "When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."
However, in Romans, Paul is talking about the Sinful Nature as though it were not cut out and removed . . . not yet. Why? Because Paul was talking about his former life as Saul.
Romans 7:18 NLT - "And I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature. I want to do what is right, but I can't."
This is why Paul wrote that during his former life, his Old Man, his Old Self, that it was not him that was sinning, but the Sin Nature within him.
Romans 7:17, 20 NLT - "So I am not the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it. ... 20 "But if I do what I don't want to do, I am not really the one doing wrong; it is sin living in me that does it."
Have a good day!
To simplify this.
There is a divide in us after the new birth.
One part of us is the carnal man, which has not changed, but has been nailed to a cross. It cannot be saved.
The other part is our spirit man that has been saved and will be ushered into heaven, shedding the carnal man to get a carnality free, new body.
Thus, the spirit man has declared a daily war on the carnal man until we are rid of him forever.
The carnal man(nature) MUST remain on the cross until it finally dies.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
But the carnal man died on the Cross with Christ. How could there be a daily war with something that has died? Didn't Jesus cut this Old Man out of your Heart?
Colossians 2:11-14 NIV - "In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, 12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. 13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross."
Verse 10 says that we are Whole and Complete in Christ, and Paul, then, moves on to explain why are whole and complete in Christ. If we are whole, there should be no battle, for if there is a battle, how can there be freedom in Christ? Verse 15, above, shows that the Devil has been defeated. If the Devil has been defeated . . . again, how can there be a battle if the battle has already been won? When the Heart has been lifted of the Sinful Nature, obedience becomes easier and easier and before we know . . . we have been Transformed because of Christ's Renewal of our minds.
Romans 7 says it(carnal man) is at war with Paul.
The passage you posted is the salvation of our spirit man, which was formerly controlled by the carnal man.
The battle goes back and forth via whether we walk in the Spirit or not.
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Sabertooth
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Eternally Grateful
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Hi tim
If paul was speaking of his past. He would have said so.
He did not say I did not do what I wanted. He said I do not do what I want (present tense)
Also. In his past. He did not have a spirit to war with. So he would have never struggled.
As for Col 2. Your using a poorly translated bible. I would throw that away as far as this test is. It is in extreme error. That is not what paul said.
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
This passage is about removing what was against us. and making us clean by the spiritual circumcision/baptism which is in Christ. Not about making us perfect.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
A trolling post. Jesus is not God and John 8:24 does not even assert that.
Jesus is our only mediator to God. By definition, this means he cannot be God.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Well, your posts are beginning to make me think some Christians might be in league with the devil.
It would be great if you would not include unrelated to the topic. Thanks!
Umm actually I used to be confused about this too but Jesus and the Father are one. Jesus being the Son of God just means He's God in human flesh. Anyways, that's sort of off topic though.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
If a Jesus was not God would you not be still ?dead in your sin, only God could take on the sin of the world.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, Romans 7 does not reflect the Mind of Christ, nor does it fall in line with Paul's plea for people to model himself and his character 18 times throughout his writings. Paul was describing his former Mind of the Devil. But through the Circumcision of Christ, he was set free from that thinking and way of living, and began to live in a way that all people could model themselves after, for when they model themselves after Paul, they modeled themselves after Christ.
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