Are Christians Sinners?

[Raccoon1010]

The law of the spirit of life only works if you enact it, by not living after the flesh - Romans 8:13 is where massive cognitive dissonance sets in.

You finally made an understandable point! Cheers.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

The law of the spirit of life only works if you enact it, by not living after the flesh - Romans 8:13 is where massive cognitive dissonance sets in.

(Edit - Just realized that I misunderstood the word Enact. I read it as Enabled. My bad!!!)

As a reporter, what I see is the below:

John 6:44 NKJV - "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day." - This is also my personal experience, having been Powerfully and Measurably drawn. Prior to that, I was a "said" Christian with knowledge, but it counted for nothing. I only appeared to be Holy while my life proved that I remained Evil. I was never able to enact anything other than sin in my life. Thank God, He enabled me through His Holy Drawing.

 

[April_Rose]

Absolutely! True Christians live by the Laws of the Spirit of Life. These are Laws that are placed within us, Laws that replace the Curse of Adam and Eve that has beset us all. It is these Laws that are spoken of in Ezekiel 11 and 36, Laws that are placed within us through the Circumcision of Heart that only Christ provides.

Romans 8:2 KJV - "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."

The Human Nature is that of a Servant, so when the Curse of the Sinful Nature is cut out and removed, the Human Nature is happy to serve the new Divine Nature that has replaced the Sinful Nature.

2 Peter 1:4 KJV - "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

I have found that knowing the definition of the Human Nature is key to understanding the Mysterious Plan of God. :)

So I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. If the law still applies to us then what are we considered when we break it either accidentally or purposely?

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

So I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. If the law still applies to us then what are we considered when we break it either accidentally or purposely?

Great question. As I understand the Bible to say, if Jesus has Cleansed our Hearts of the Sinful Nature, we are considered absolutely Pure. We are placed upon a Holy Path in life and will learn to sin less and less. The Lord disciplines so that His True Children will conform . . . and we will. :)

The Word shows that we are not robots, for it speaks much of unintentional sin that leads to guilt. The OT speaks of the consecrated hair of Aaron's sons who were Priests. The text shows that being in the company of a dead corpse, even their parents, defiles their consecrated hair, thus leading to guilt that must be atoned for. Chapters four and five of Leviticus deal with this "thing" of unintentional sin.

 

[Zadok]

Great question. As I understand the Bible to say, if Jesus has Cleansed our Hearts of the Sinful Nature, we are considered absolutely Pure. We are placed upon a Holy Path in life and will learn to sin less and less. The Lord disciplines so that His True Children will conform . . . and we will. :)

The Word shows that we are not robots, for it speaks much of unintentional sin that leads to guilt. The OT speaks of the consecrated hair of Aaron's sons who were Priests. The text shows that being in the company defiles their consecrated hair, thus leading to guilt that must be atoned for. Chapters four and five of Leviticus deal with this thing of unintentional sin.

Jesus is made not after the law of a carnal commandment, but the POWER OF AN ENDLESS LIFE - Hebrews 7:16

 

[April_Rose]

Great question. As I understand the Bible to say, if Jesus has Cleansed our Hearts of the Sinful Nature, we are considered absolutely Pure. We are placed upon a Holy Path in life and will learn to sin less and less. The Lord disciplines so that His True Children will conform . . . and we will. :)

The Word shows that we are not robots, for it speaks much of unintentional sin that leads to guilt. The OT speaks of the consecrated hair of Aaron's sons who were Priests. The text shows that being in the company of a dead corpse, even their parents, defiles their consecrated hair, thus leading to guilt that must be atoned for. Chapters four and five of Leviticus deal with this "thing" of unintentional sin.

Okay that all makes sense,.. but how can a Christian who steals something still be considered pure? Not like they would,.. but also if they did I also don't think that would make them any less saved than a Christian who tells a lie even if it's a white lie.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Jesus is made not after the law of a carnal commandment, but the POWER OF AN ENDLESS LIFE - Hebrews 7:16

Amen . . . Paul writes clearly of this, and the good news is that it applies to us as well. Amazing.

Romans 6:5-9 NLT - "Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin. And since we died with Christ, we know we will also live with him. We are sure of this because Christ was raised from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him."

 

[Zadok]

Amen . . . Paul writes clearly of this, and the good news is that it applies to us as well. Amazing.

Romans 6:5-9 NLT - "Since we have been united with him in his death, we will also be raised to life as he was. We know that our old sinful selves were crucified with Christ so that sin might lose its power in our lives. We are no longer slaves to sin. For when we died with Christ we were set free from the power of sin. And since we died with Christ, we know we will also live with him. We are sure of this because Christ was raised from the dead, and he will never die again. Death no longer has any power over him."

Your spirit was made alive. Not yet "made whole spirit, SOUL AND BODY" - I Thess 5:23.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Okay that all makes sense,.. but how can a Christian who steals something still be considered pure? Not like they would,.. but also if they did I also don't think that would make them any less saved than a Christian who tells a lie even if it's a white lie.

That's a worthy question indeed, and it is something that I struggled with for decades. Here is what I found that I believe the Bible teaches about that. - The sacrifice of perfect animals in the Old Testament prepares us with the image of Christ and what He must endure to pay the debt for this sins of the world. It is True, that animal sacrifice would actually pay the debt for that person's sin. But the difference between the sacrifice of animals and that of Jesus, is that the death of Jesus pays the penalty for ALL sin. This means that animals must no longer die to pay the penalty for a person's sin. Through Jesus, we are covered by His Holy Sacrifice . . . by His Holy Blood. The Old Testament Passover deals with Holy Blood covering a person to prevent them from death. This points to Jesus on the Cross.

So in your being a Christian, the Name Christian is meant to immediately tell others that you Trust Jesus with your body as it slowly dies. You believe that Jesus has the Power over life and death, and that just like Him, He will raise you, too, from the dead and will live with Him in Eternity forever. But here is the reality of things: You may receive the Holy Spirit, yet still struggle with the habit of stealing. Consider Peter . . . he actually fell astray, leading Barnabas astray, and between the two of them, they led many people astray from the Gospel of Christ. I know for a fact that God is more pleased with a sinner that steals a pencil than He is with a person who leads people away from Jesus. What Peter did (Galatians 2) is absolutely incredible, considering the miracles that seemed to flow through his hands . . . all that he had seen (and heard!) But, Peter was still a man of God. He was indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and this is a Spirit Promised and guaranteed to never leave him. Peter was a sinner though he was saved by Christ. Why is he Pure? Because Christ paid for those old sins that, as it seems, reared their ugly heads once again in his life.

Like Peter, we are all just mere human beings, doing our best to bounce off the side of the rails of Life. And as difficult as Peter is portrayed to be, we must all view him with a similar Grace, Compassion, and Mercy that Christ has shown each of us. Peter wasn't perfect in his earthly state, neither am I, but we thank God that Jesus sent his Son so as to make us Perfect in the sight of God. Without Christ, this form of Perfection is not possible.

I hope I made sense! So much could be said/written. Books are written on this, I'm sure.

 

[April_Rose]

I hope I made sense!

Sorry I'm not getting that at all so let's try breaking it down. How would an animal sacrifice originally pay for the sins of humans? Animals can't sin because they don't have the concept of right and wrong like we do. However, just like babies and really small children who have the same issue, I still believe that they all go to Heaven since God is a fair and a just God. :)

 

[justbyfaith]

We are all sinners in that we all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15).

We are not sinners in that we do not have to sin if we have been born again of the Holy Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (kjv), (NLT))

 

[justbyfaith]

Oh, that one?
Where is the word 'hell' in there?
Christians are perishing all the time. I don't know any immortals yet, that have eternal life.

Oh, you don't know any Christians?

Christians have everlasting life (John 5:24, John 6:47).

all of Romans 8 is to me, it has it all, even Universalism in vs 21:

I don't see that verse as teaching Universalism.

The law of the spirit of life only works if you enact it, by not living after the flesh - Romans 8:13 is where massive cognitive dissonance sets in.

So, I assume that you believe that we cannot mortify the deeds of the body in the power of the Holy Spirit.

I think that I would have to disagree with you there.

Your spirit was made alive. Not yet "made whole spirit, SOUL AND BODY" - I Thess 5:23.

This is indeed possible to be accomplished in this life (if you read 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 in the kjv).

 

[justbyfaith]

The following scripture comes to mind.

1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[April_Rose]

We are all sinners in that we all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8, 1 Timothy 1:15).

We are not sinners in that we do not have to sin if we have been born again of the Holy Spirit (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (kjv), (NLT))

So then which is it? Are we sinners or not? As you have shown me both answers that contradict each other. :

 

[justbyfaith]

So then which is it? Are we sinners or not?

Both; depending on how you define a sinner.

 

[April_Rose]

Both; depending on how you define a sinner.

I think that the more appropriate answer would be that everybody except Christ is considered a sinner, but for those in Christ their sin doesn't matter after repentance.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Cause I'm sort of confused about this. Anybody and everybody who isn't Jesus sins,.. but yet since we are all saved by grace and the blood of Christ, does that mean we can't actually be called sinners since God no longer looks at our sin? Then again, we still need to repent whenever we do sin so which is it? Since murders are still murders even if they've felt remorse for it and have been forgiven for it afterwards.

The way people answer this totally depends on how specifically that person/denomination defines "sin". So I'm going to step away from that and use super basic words:

- Before a person comes to Christ, they are going to do actions which are against God's ways.
- After a person comes to Christ, they are still going to do actions which are against God's ways-- let's be honest here. Hopefully it is indeed with less frequency and severity, but mistakes do happen. Hopefully repentance also comes quickly as well.

Again, the question of "do Christians sin?" depends on the definition of "sin" being used. If you call those wrong actions "sins", then yes a Christian does sin (and hopefully repent quickly). I'm personally of that view. But I've also met folks whom define "sin" as strictly only those actions done before a person comes to Christ and say "no" to that question simply by definition.

 

[April_Rose]

I guess it really is a trick question though as either answer appears to be right.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Cause I'm sort of confused about this. Anybody and everybody who isn't Jesus sins,.. but yet since we are all saved by grace and the blood of Christ, does that mean we can't actually be called sinners since God no longer looks at our sin? Then again, we still need to repent whenever we do sin so which is it? Since murders are still murders even if they've felt remorse for it and have been forgiven for it afterwards.

Hi.

To give you teh technical answer. biblically a sinner is a term used for unbelievers. so we are not sinners as believers but we do sin.

 

[April_Rose]

Hi.

To give you teh technical answer. biblically a sinner is a term used for unbelievers. so we are not sinners as believers but we do sin.

Yeah but do you know how odd that sounds? It sounds exactly the same as saying that somebody stole from you but they aren't a thief. At least in my book.