He's a troll Devin. Two of his cohorts just got banned over the weekend.
Are Christians Sinners?
- Thread starter April_Rose
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Yeah I kinda thought that since their language matched that of another troll that was banned, but I didn't want to report them, cause I could have been wrong ;)
...geez, I got here late again, ..i just reported him also
I see, but, not too much repercussions if by chance you are wrong, I believe. The mods will take your remark into consideration, but ultimately decide for themselves.
April, all Christians are sinners. That is the one fundamental point that differentiates Christianity from all other religions around the world, the pinnacle concept of forgiveness. Almost the entirety of Scripture, from Adam to Nehemiah, to the disciples and the Sanhedrin, the Bible impresses upon us the need for a Saviour. All Christians are perpetual sinners both prior to conversion, and after.
But, faith is verified by works. So, yes, as others have stated, once forgiven, there is both gratitude, and the recognition of the lethal and repugnant nature of sin. Thus, men become edified as they walk with Christ (reading the Bible, praying, confessing him as Lord openly, ...).
Edified is one thing, but remaining a sinner is another. No one gets to the grave in a perfect state, maybe a better state than before, but never impeccable.
But, faith is verified by works. So, yes, as others have stated, once forgiven, there is both gratitude, and the recognition of the lethal and repugnant nature of sin. Thus, men become edified as they walk with Christ (reading the Bible, praying, confessing him as Lord openly, ...).
Edified is one thing, but remaining a sinner is another. No one gets to the grave in a perfect state, maybe a better state than before, but never impeccable.
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Ziggy
Well-Known Member
That's the putting on of the new man Paul talks about..
Eph 4:17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
Eph 4:18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
Eph 4:19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
Eph 4:20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Eph 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Eph 4:26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
Eph 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.
Eph 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Eph 4:29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Sealed unto the day of redemption...
What is that day?
I believe that is judgement day.
Those that have been redeemed by the Lord, that have recieved God's grace, saved from eternal damnation by the blood purchase of the Lord,
have recieved a seal. This seal is His Spirit living within those who have been redeemed.
And yet Paul says that we should not "grieve" the Holy Spirit by which we are sealed by.
There is the trying of our behavior due at the time of redemption.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
We are not sinners in the sense that we are continuing in sin.
That sin is also called "Lawlessness" . Not walking according to the worlds standards, we now walk according to God's standards.
From the moment we accept the invitation of God's Grace, all former sins are washed away, cast away. God no longer sees you as lawless but He sees Jesus' righteousness which covers you. The blood of Jesus is as a veil that covers over or blots out all unrighteousness.
You can poke holes in that veil by being disobedient and lawless, commiting acts of sin willingly and knowingly.
Those holes are the "works" that one will be judged by on redemption day... where is your wedding garment?
I believe because one has been redeemed by the Lord that you will always be his possesion. You will always be in his captivity.
He purchased you, you agreed to be purchased, He owns you. No one can remove you from his hand.
Only Jesus himself can deny you if you deny him.
Luk 12:9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God.
You say you still have some bad habits, we all do. None of us is perfected yet.
Those are the wood, stubble, hay works that will be tried and judged.
Those little acts of disobedience are like little holes in your wedding garment.
Some people's wedding garments are holding on by a thread because they are not cautious about trying to avoid or overcome those little faults.
I believe the more mature we become, those holes that we made are mended, that is God's forgiveness overlooking the minor imperfections.
If you know your weak spots, these are those things that need prayer the most. And a striving towards not repeating them.
Also a time for seeking prayer from others to join in your prayers to help overcome them.
Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
Col 1:11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
There is always a choice. IF...
Hugs
Christians do sin, but it's not who we are. It's not our identity. We are actually Saints that are imperfect.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
I'm a troll? Me? All I try to do, here, is spread goodness. I'm not aggressive; not a name-caller. Why would you think that I'm a troll?
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
Whew . . . I'd be pretty disappointed with myself if I were viewed that way. I care more about you all than I do about myself.
Sorry 2nd Tim, that was alluding to Zadok. I didn't realize that you were quoted on the same post. My remark was not meant to be in regard to you.
...but, just for the record, you were quite supportive of the last two hooligans that just got banned, Kriestal and the girl with the colour in her hair (I forget her name). That appeared to be rather incriminating. Not sure where you were coming from at that point?
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2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
I wish I had that attitude, I basically beat myself up whenever I sin.
I wouldn't beat yourself up! That's what Satan wants you to do . . . fell terrible about yourself. I don't play that game with him.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
Yep, the things that those two were saying has validity . . . at least according to the notes that I have created over the years. However, I am stuck in the middle of that issue, the issue of "is all of Israel saved" and/or is all of the world saved. Scripture has much to say about both sides . . . which explains why I was asking that we hold on . . . and at least consider.
You're all smart . . . so I am here to learn from those of you who present great arguments!
Again, we are all sinners in that we all have indwelling sin (1 John 1:8).
Each one of us ought to even adopt to ourselves the faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation that "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief." (1 Timothy 1:15).
We are utterly sinful, in our flesh (Romans 7:18).
However, as those who have been given the Holy Ghost, we have the capability of walking consistently, not according to the flesh but after the Spirit; and in doing so the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).
Since sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), we do not sin if the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us. This is according to the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter (Romans 7:6).
Scriptures that come to mind.
1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Rom 6:16, Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17, But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18, Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Each one of us ought to even adopt to ourselves the faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation that "Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief." (1 Timothy 1:15).
We are utterly sinful, in our flesh (Romans 7:18).
However, as those who have been given the Holy Ghost, we have the capability of walking consistently, not according to the flesh but after the Spirit; and in doing so the righteousness of the law will be fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).
Since sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), we do not sin if the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us. This is according to the spirit of the law as opposed to the letter (Romans 7:6).
Scriptures that come to mind.
1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Rom 6:16, Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17, But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18, Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
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Michael1985
Active Member
Anyone who sins even one time in life is a sinner. It's just that those who believe and genuinely repent won't have those sins held against them.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Of course Christians are sinners. Read about the difference between salvation and sanctification.
I asked for forgiveness much, MUCH more often after I was saved for my ongoing sins.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Sanctification wouldn't be Sanctification if it weren't for sin AFTER christ Purifies the Heart.
If you don't believe that Jesus is the great I AM, you are going to die in your sins (John 8:24); and therefore have not been saved from your ongoing sins.
2nd Timothy Group
Well-Known Member
What if a person believes that Jesus is the Great I Am, but does not lift their Heart to Him for His Holy Operation of Faith? The result would be Matthew 7 (below).
Matthew 7:22-23 CSB - "On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name? ' "Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you. Depart from me, you lawbreakers!"
Why would Jesus call them "Lawbreakers"? Because He had yet to release them from the Law by His Holy Operation of Faith.
Colossians 2:11-14 CSB - "You were also circumcised in him with a circumcision not done with hands, by putting off the body of flesh, in the circumcision of Christ, when you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. And when you were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive with him and forgave us all our trespasses. He erased the certificate of debt, with its obligations, that was against us and opposed to us, and has taken it away by nailing it to the cross."
Romans 7:6 CSB - "But now we have been released from the law, since we have died to what held us, so that we may serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the old letter of the law."
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