Are Christians Sinners?

[2nd Timothy Group]

As for Col 2. You're using a poorly translated bible. I would throw that away as far as this test is. It is in extreme error. That is not what Paul said.

LOL - I don't care about translations like seemingly everyone else. They all carry the same, undeniable message that explains Ezekiel chapters 11 and 36, and Deuteronomy chapter 30, as it speaks about what the Lord will do to the Human Heart and Spirit.

No errors at all . . . just full explanations, good person.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am a sinner saved by grace,

If you are still a sinner then the law was made for you (1 Timothy 1:9) and therefore you ought to consider that you just might still be under it.

paul still called himself chief of sinners, and even spoke of his struggle in Romans 7

In my flesh, I am utterly sinful (Romans 7:18) and am the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15).

However, that I can walk consistently, not after the flesh but after the Spirit, is a truth in God's word that is not to be ignored (Romans 8:4).

And therefore, as long as I am walking according to the Spirit, I do not sin; and if I can walk consistently according to the Spirit for the rest of my life, I will not be a sinner (in the sense of one who sins) for the rest of my life.

as John said if we claim to be without sin we deceive ourselves and there is no truth in us

We all have indwelling sin according to 1 John 1:8.

But this does not preclude that we must inevitably sin in the future.

For the element of sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

The law was a schoolmaster to be used to lead us to Christ,

once we have found Christ the schoolmaster is no more needed

When we have been fully trained by our schoolmaster, we will not forget the lessons that he has taught us.

The title question should really be "Can Christians Sin?" and the answer is "Yes".

1 John 3:9 would go rank and file against that idea.

Those who claim sinless perfection are simply deluding themselves.

Or, maybe, they are believing what it says in 1 John 3:9 (taking it literally as 2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv) says to do).

btw, "sinless perfection" is a misnomer that is often applied to the doctrine of "entire sanctification" in order to create a straw man that is easily toppled by 1 John 1:8.

While the doctrine of entire sanctification doesn't declare that we are without sin (or that sin is eradicated from us), thus contradicting 1 John 1:8; but it declares that the element of sin, while still dwelling within us, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) and therefore inept so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

For, 1 John 1:8 does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

Read it again.

He did not say I did not do what I wanted. He said I do not do what I want (present tense)

Paul, in Romans 7:14-25, was using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION, identifying himself as carnal in order to define carnality so that he might win the carnal person to Christ (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

That Paul himself was not carnal when he wrote this should be clear when you look at 2 Peter 1:21. The fact that Paul was in the moment penning the holy scriptures indicates to me that he was a holy man of God at that point and not carnal.

For Paul most definitely shows that the solution to carnality is realized in a discontentedness with such a lifestyle (Romans 7:24, Romans 6:6).

Jesus is not God and John 8:24 does not even assert that.

John 8:58 asserts it more clearly; and the Pharisees understood Jesus' claim; and sought to stone Him for blasphemy because they understood His claim (John 8:59, John 10:31-33).

But John 8:24, understood in light of that, makes believing Jesus' claim an essential for salvation.

Jesus is our only mediator to God. By definition, this means he cannot be God.

Not as I see it.

It would be great if you would not include unrelated to the topic. Thanks!

I don't see how my statement was unrelated to the topic. The topic is, "Are Christians sinners?" and I believe that 1 John 3:8 answers that question.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

LOL - I don't care about translations like seemingly everyone else. They all carry the same, undeniable message that explains Ezekiel chapters 11 and 36, and Deuteronomy chapter 30, as it speaks about what the Lord will do to the Human Heart and Spirit.

No errors at all . . . just full explanations, good person.

It’s ok

Col 2 says nothing about the sin nature, it is talking about salvation of the wound not conditional sanctification

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you are still a sinner then the law was made for you (1 Timothy 1:9) and therefore you ought to consider that you just might still be under it.

as John said if I claim to be without sin I am decieved,

I will listen to paul and John and Paul who said I am no longer under law but grace

In my flesh, I am utterly sinful (Romans 7:18) and am the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15).

However, that I can walk consistently, not after the flesh but after the Spirit, is a truth in God's word that is not to be ignored (Romans 8:4).

And therefore, as long as I am walking according to the Spirit, I do not sin; and if I can walk consistently according to the Spirit for the rest of my life, I will not be a sinner (in the sense of one who sins) for the rest of my life.

Christ is the only man who did this

We all have indwelling sin according to 1 John 1:8.

But this does not preclude that we must inevitably sin in the future.

For the element of sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).



When we have been fully trained by our schoolmaster, we will not forget the lessons that he has taught us.



1 John 3:9 would go rank and file against that idea.



Or, maybe, they are believing what it says in 1 John 3:9 (taking it literally as 2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv) says to do).

btw, "sinless perfection" is a misnomer that is often applied to the doctrine of "entire sanctification" in order to create a straw man that is easily toppled by 1 John 1:8.

While the doctrine of entire sanctification doesn't declare that we are without sin (or that sin is eradicated from us), thus contradicting 1 John 1:8; but it declares that the element of sin, while still dwelling within us, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) and therefore inept so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

For, 1 John 1:8 does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

Read it again.





John 8:58 asserts it more clearly; and the Pharisees understood Jesus' claim; and sought to stone Him for blasphemy because they understood His claim (John 8:59, John 10:31-33).

But John 8:24, understood in light of that, makes believing Jesus' claim an essential for salvation.



Not as I see it.



I don't see how my statement was unrelated to the topic. The topic is, "Are Christians sinners?" and I believe that 1 John 3:8 answers that question.

If you are still a sinner then the law was made for you (1 Timothy 1:9) and therefore you ought to consider that you just might still be under it.



In my flesh, I am utterly sinful (Romans 7:18) and am the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15).

However, that I can walk consistently, not after the flesh but after the Spirit, is a truth in God's word that is not to be ignored (Romans 8:4).

And therefore, as long as I am walking according to the Spirit, I do not sin; and if I can walk consistently according to the Spirit for the rest of my life, I will not be a sinner (in the sense of one who sins) for the rest of my life.



We all have indwelling sin according to 1 John 1:8.

But this does not preclude that we must inevitably sin in the future.

For the element of sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).



When we have been fully trained by our schoolmaster, we will not forget the lessons that he has taught us.



1 John 3:9 would go rank and file against that idea.



Or, maybe, they are believing what it says in 1 John 3:9 (taking it literally as 2 Corinthians 3:12 (kjv) says to do).

btw, "sinless perfection" is a misnomer that is often applied to the doctrine of "entire sanctification" in order to create a straw man that is easily toppled by 1 John 1:8.

While the doctrine of entire sanctification doesn't declare that we are without sin (or that sin is eradicated from us), thus contradicting 1 John 1:8; but it declares that the element of sin, while still dwelling within us, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) and therefore inept so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour (Romans 6:14).

For, 1 John 1:8 does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

Read it again.





John 8:58 asserts it more clearly; and the Pharisees understood Jesus' claim; and sought to stone Him for blasphemy because they understood His claim (John 8:59, John 10:31-33).

But John 8:24, understood in light of that, makes believing Jesus' claim an essential for salvation.



Not as I see it.



I don't see how my statement was unrelated to the topic. The topic is, "Are Christians sinners?" and I believe that 1 John 3:8 answers that question.

There is a thread about long posts here, you would do well to read it

not going to look at a prolonged thread especially when it has multiple responses to multiple people

show some humility for a chance,

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

It’s ok

Col 2 says nothing about the sin nature, it is talking about salvation of the wound not conditional sanctification

Colossians 2:11 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ . . ."

Ok, but "something" is certainly being removed, and it isn't the foreskins of men that are "quickened together with him" as the KJV states in the next couple verses. This is a Spiritual Circumcision, made evident by the Circumcision "made without hands." And what is the "body of the sins of the flesh"? Is that not the Spiritual "body" that is being cut out and removed? Is this not the corruption that Jesus came to earth to remove and resolve? Is this not why Jesus died, so that He could defeat the Devil and make a public show of Him? That isn't what is happening?

We should all read Colossians 2:9-15 each day and with as many different translations as we can get our hands on. Even the New World Translation relates it beautifully, and so does the Catholic Bible.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Colossians 2:11 KJV - "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ . . ."

Ok, but "something" is certainly being removed, and it isn't the foreskins of men that are "quickened together with him" as the KJV states in the next couple verses. This is a Spiritual Circumcision, made evident by the Circumcision "made without hands." And what is the "body of the sins of the flesh"? Is that not the Spiritual "body" that is being cut out and removed? Is this not the corruption that Jesus came to earth to remove and resolve? Is this not why Jesus died, so that He could defeat the Devil and make a public show of Him? That isn't what is happening?

We should all read Colossians 2:9-15 each day and with as many different translations as we can get our hands on. Even the New World Translation relates it beautifully, and so does the Catholic Bible.

yes there the penalty of sin is being removed, the law. It is what was against us and contrary to us, it is what was nailed to the cross, so it could no longer condemn us

remember paul said the law came and sin increased, as it always does, tell someone they can’t do something and pride and the flesh wants to do it, it rejects authority,

remove the law and the flesh has no power, because sin no longer has its strength,

 

[justbyfaith]

as John said if I claim to be without sin I am decieved,

You do have sin; but that does not preclude that you must inevitably commit sin in the future.

For the element of sin, dwelling within you, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over your behaviour (Romans 6:14).

I will listen to paul and John and Paul who said I am no longer under law but grace

Paul said (1 Timothy 1:9) that if you are still a sinner (in the sense of one who commits sin) then the law was made for you. You need to consider that this means that if you are still a sinner you may indeed still be under the law.

On what basis do you claim Romans 6:14 for your own life?

There is a thread about long posts here, you would do well to read it

not going to look at a prolonged thread especially when it has multiple responses to multiple people

show some humility for a chance,

Your estimation is that, because I respond to every pertinent thing that has been posted in a thread since I posted last, that I lack humility?

I will only say that that is your judgment and that in Luke 6:41-42 is the teaching that when you point the finger at someone else, there are usually three fingers pointing back at you.

 

[Enoch111]

1 John 3:9 would go rank and file against that idea.

Just because you have failed to understand this verse does not mean that you are free from sin. So let's hear you say that you are sinlessly perfect. Or you can say that you have misunderstood this verse, and you do sin, even in misleading others.

 

[justbyfaith]

Christ is the only man who did this

True, for no one but Christ has done this from the moment of conception into eternity.

But I will say that once we receive the Holy Spirit, it becomes possible to live this kind of life from that point forward.

 

[justbyfaith]

Just because you have failed to understand this verse does not mean that you are free from sin. So let's hear you say that you are sinlessly perfect. Or you can say that you have misunderstood this verse, and you do sin, even in misleading others.

I am not "sinlessly" perfect (1 John 1:8); though I may be perfect (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv)).

As many as have been perfected have the attitude that they have room to grow (Philippians 3:12-15). So I will never claim to be perfect, lest I cease to be a candidate for having been perfected.

But the fact that I do not claim perfection in no way precludes that I have not been made perfect.

For I will state to you that the possibility exists for everyone who receives appropriation of the blood of Jesus Christ (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29, 1 John 1:7).

(also, 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:10,14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (kjv), (NLT))

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

yes there the penalty of sin is being removed, the law. It is what was against us and contrary to us, it is what was nailed to the cross, so it could no longer condemn us

remember paul said the law came and sin increased, as it always does, tell someone they can’t do something and pride and the flesh wants to do it, it rejects authority,

remove the law and the flesh has no power, because sin no longer has its strength,

Huh. I always that Ezekiel 11 and 36 were about receiving New Hearts and a new attitude/spirit.

Ezekiel 11:19-20 NKJV - 19 "Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 "that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NKJV - 25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do [them].

These verses in Ezekiel are clearly referring to Colossians 2:9-15. The problem is that no pastors are willing to teach the Truth, for if they did, it would mean that their flocks would be obedient. But if a pastor can create a flock that doesn't know the Scriptures, then the pastor can keep getting paid (he won't kick anyone out for their disobedience), thus promoting the lie that one doesn't have to obey, but still goes to Heaven.

Forget me, but never forget Colossians 2:9-15. They explain the Bible as a whole.

 

[justbyfaith]

edited post #102 (Are Christians Sinners?).

He did not say I did not do what I wanted. He said I do not do what I want (present tense)

Paul, in Romans 7:14-25, was using the literary tactic of IDENTIFICATION, identifying himself as carnal in order to define carnality so that he might win the carnal person to Christ (see 1 Corinthians 9:22).

That Paul himself was not carnal when he wrote this should be clear when you look at 2 Peter 1:21. The fact that Paul was in the moment penning the holy scriptures indicates to me that he was a holy man of God at that point and not carnal.

For Paul most definitely shows that the solution to carnality is realized in a discontentedness with such a lifestyle (Romans 7:24, Romans 6:6).

 

[Katrina Wingo]

Jesus is not done erasing all my sin, when he heals me of all that is evil then I will not be a sinner. I am saved, but I am far from perfect and as I improve the more I see that. The full transformation will not come till Jesus takes me home. I do what I can to be more like Him and less like me, but it is not something I am done with.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus is not done erasing all my sin, when he heals me of all that is evil then I will not be a sinner. I am saved, but I am far from perfect and as I improve the more I see that. The full transformation will not come till Jesus takes me home. I do what I can to be more like Him and less like me, but it is not something I am done with.

1Th 5:23, And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24, Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:2, Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

1Jo 2:6, He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


Jde 1:24, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

2Pe 1:10, Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

1Jo 2:10, He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.


1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


Rom 6:6, Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Col 2:11, In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Col 2:11, When you came to Christ, you were “circumcised,” but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision—the cutting away of your sinful nature.

 

[justbyfaith]

@Katrina Wingo,

Welcome to the Boards!

 

[Taken]

Are Christians Sinners?
OP ^

Christian is a descriptive term for Humans Who Follow the Teachings of Jesus.

Every human has BY Natural Birth Been naturally born AGAINST GOD, which IS every Earthly man's Sin AGAINST God.

The Lord God Himself has Provided A MEANS, ORDER and WAY for every SINFUL Earthling to BE "Forgiven" and FREE From "Ever Again Committing SIN".

We can Accept The Lord Gods Offer...and live the remainder of our Natural Lives,
AS "Forgiven Sinners"...OR Dwell on our past sins (that BTW God has covered with His Light, that God cannot See, and that God Does NOT Remember)...
•And for what Good Purpose should WE DO THAT?

And IF you are A "Forgiven Sinner, no longer Against God"...
Why would you Espouse you CONTINUE to SIN? Oxymoron!!!
What is a listener to Believe?
•You no longer sin?
•You continue to sin Against God?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Huh. I always that Ezekiel 11 and 36 were about receiving New Hearts and a new attitude/spirit.

Ezekiel 11:19-20 NKJV - 19 "Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 "that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 NKJV - 25 "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do [them].

These verses in Ezekiel are clearly referring to Colossians 2:9-15. The problem is that no pastors are willing to teach the Truth, for if they did, it would mean that their flocks would be obedient. But if a pastor can create a flock that doesn't know the Scriptures, then the pastor can keep getting paid (he won't kick anyone out for their disobedience), thus promoting the lie that one doesn't have to obey, but still goes to Heaven.

Forget me, but never forget Colossians 2:9-15. They explain the Bible as a whole.

I was talking about Col 2. The two OT passages which concern Israel and her stopping her sin against gif she has been punished for

So I did not even discuss them sorry

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

I was talking about Col 2. The two OT passages which concern Israel and her stopping her sin against gif she has been punished for

So I did not even discuss them sorry

I'm saying that the Eze chapters 11 and 36 texts clearly support Spiritual Circumcision of Heart as described in Colossians 2:9-15. Col 2:9-15 tells us exactly what the Ezekiel chapters are talking about. It's obvious, and I know that you know that.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm saying that the Eze chapters 11 and 36 texts clearly support Spiritual Circumcision of Heart as described in Colossians 2:9-15. Col 2:9-15 tells us exactly what the Ezekiel chapters are talking about. It's obvious, and I know that you know that.

Well I disagree

again those passages are about israel Not you and I.

 

[2nd Timothy Group]

Well I disagree

again those passages are about Israel Not you and Me.

Those verses apply not to Jews, but to all people who have the Faith of Abraham.

Romans 2:28-29 NKJV - "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God."

We must have the same Faith that Abraham had BEFORE he was physically circumcised. Why? Because his physical circumcision is demonstrative of his Spiritual Circumcision. This is what the ENTIRE Bible revolves around. Below I use the NLT because it makes the Scriptures ultra-clear. That said, use your own translation of choice for the passages below . . . they're all good (even the Catholic and JW Bibles speak of this Plan very, very clearly).

Romans 4:12 NLT - "And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised."
Galatians 3:9, 14 NLT - "So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith. ... 14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised Holy Spirit through faith."

These passages are showing the True Gospel, but few are aware of this Plan that Paul so clearly writes out.