Are Christians Sinners?

[Robert Pate]

What is sin? Sin is the transgression of God's law, 1 John 3:4.

What is the law? The law is the nature and the Character of God. Jesus is the epitome of God's law. "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets" Romans 3:21. If one is going to do or fulfill the law, they would have to be as righteous as Jesus. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. There is none righteous because all are born after Adam, "Wherefore as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin; and so, death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:21.

We are all related to Adam. He is our first father. We all have Adam's blood flowing through our veins, "For as by one man's disobedience many were MADE sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus) many shall be MADE righteous" Romans 5:19. We don't become righteous by our own works, we are MADE righteous. Just as we were MADE sinners, so shall we be MADE Righteous. How does Jesus make us righteous? Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold all things are become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The Gospel is spiritual. When Jesus lived, we lived in him. When Jesus died, we died in him, Romans 6:3. When Jesus was resurrected, we were resurrected with him, Romans 6:5. Jesus is our representative. When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. Christ is our righteousness, we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. The righteousness of Christ becomes ours by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not by works, laws or religion, it is known as "Righteousness by faith". Paul wrote, "That I might be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

According to the scriptures righteousness is not by what we do, other than faith. Righteousness is by what Christ did, his life, his death, his resurrection. We are MADE righteous. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus God sees us as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Do we have this righteousness now? No, it is reserved for us in heaven, 1 Peter 1:4. We do not have a righteousness that God will accept, because our Old Adamic nature has not been redeemed, Romans 8:23. When Jesus arrives we will be changed, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead in Christ shall be raised in corruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality, 1 Corinthians 15:52-53.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What is sin? Sin is the transgression of God's law, 1 John 3:4.

What is the law? The law is the nature and the Character of God. Jesus is the epitome of God's law. "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets" Romans 3:21. If one is going to do or fulfill the law, they would have to be as righteous as Jesus.
This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. There is none righteous because all are born after Adam, "Wherefore as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin; and so, death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:21.

We are all related to Adam. He is our first father. We all have Adam's blood flowing through our veins, "For as by one man's disobedience many were MADE sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus) many shall be MADE righteous" Romans 5:19. We don't become righteous by our own works, we are MADE righteous. Just as we were MADE sinners, so shall we be MADE Righteous. How does Jesus make us righteous? Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold all things are become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The Gospel is spiritual. When Jesus lived, we lived in him. When Jesus died, we died in him, Romans 6:3. When Jesus was resurrected, we were resurrected with him, Romans 6:5. Jesus is our representative. When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. Christ is our righteousness, we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. The righteousness of Christ becomes ours by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not by works, laws or religion, it is known as "Righteousness by faith". Paul wrote, "That I might be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

According to the scriptures righteousness is not by what we do, other than faith. Righteousness is by what Christ did, his life, his death, his resurrection. We are MADE righteous. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus God sees us as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Do we have this righteousness now? No, it is reserved for us in heaven, 1 Peter 1:4. We do not have a righteousness that God will accept, because our Old Adamic nature has not been redeemed, Romans 8:23. When Jesus arrives we will be changed, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead in Christ shall be raised in corruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality, 1 Corinthians 15:52-53.

Yes, sin is lawlessness. Anyone who broke a commandment in the Old Testament were stoned to death. They are called "sins unto death." 1 John 3:5 says Jesus takes away those sins of lawlessness. But not only does He forgive our sins of the past (2 Peter 1:9) but through being filled with the Spirit of Christ Jesus takes away even the desire to commit a sin unto death. Jesus takes us from death to eternal life. Catholics know the difference between the two types of sin. They call this one "mortal sins." Mortal meaning death.

The other type of sin is a more minor sin having to do with the fruit of the Spirit in those filled with the Spirit. These are called "sins not unto death," 1 John 5:16-17. If you look at 1 John 1:7 you will see a born again Christian still having some kind of sin cleansed. John 15:1-4 is about the fruit, but it also shows us regarding the mortal sins we are CLEAN. So fruit is not that. Peter is the one who gives us a system to mature in the fruit, 2 Peter 1:5-7 (but read from 2-11). These trespasses are emotions like self-control that we may sin against another Christian, or even ourselves like smoking.

 

[BlessedPeace]

1John 3:6 & 9
(6)No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. (9)No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.

 

[Ritajanice]

1 John 31 How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him.2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears, [1] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.3 Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.4Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin.6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work.9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God.10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.11 This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another.12 Do not be like Cain, who belonged to the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own actions were evil and his brother's were righteous.13 Do not be surprised, my brothers, if the world hates you.14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.15 Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers.17 If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?18 Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.19 This then is how we know that we belong to the truth, and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence20 whenever our hearts condemn us. For God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him.23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us

 

[Robert Pate]

Yes, sin is lawlessness. Anyone who broke a commandment in the Old Testament were stoned to death. They are called "sins unto death." 1 John 3:5 says Jesus takes away those sins of lawlessness. But not only does He forgive our sins of the past (2 Peter 1:9) but through being filled with the Spirit of Christ Jesus takes away even the desire to commit a sin unto death. Jesus takes us from death to eternal life. Catholics know the difference between the two types of sin. They call this one "mortal sins." Mortal meaning death.

The other type of sin is a more minor sin having to do with the fruit of the Spirit in those filled with the Spirit. These are called "sins not unto death," 1 John 5:16-17. If you look at 1 John 1:7 you will see a born again Christian still having some kind of sin cleansed. John 15:1-4 is about the fruit, but it also shows us regarding the mortal sins we are CLEAN. So fruit is not that. Peter is the one who gives us a system to mature in the fruit, 2 Peter 1:5-7 (but read from 2-11). These trespasses are emotions like self-control that we may sin against another Christian, or even ourselves like smoking.

If you knew as much about the Gospel as you do about sin, you would be a much happier person.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If you knew as much about the Gospel as you do about sin, you would be a much happier person.

What's your's? A license to sin?
I am happy because I do know the gospel. It is the power of God in my life freeing me from all sin and possession of gifts of the Spirit. The best gifts I have are hearing God's voice, and visually seeing a glow around a pastor during his giving his sermon. My pastor has a bright white glow. But I've also seen one with a black smoke. Do you have any gifts of the Spirit?

 

[Randy Kluth]

I only partly agree with you. In saying that righteousness is not something we "do" you are conveying something that can be confusing.

Of course righteousness is something we "do!" But you're right that all virtue comes from God and nothing we do that is "right" comes from any virtue other than that which comes from God. We are made to be righteous by being born in the image of God, and we are "made righteous" when we are born again.

The kind of righteousness we do that attains to Eternal Life requires that what we do comes out of a new character born from Christ. Otherwise our righteousness is like a "one off," being here for the moment or even for our own glory.

Righteousness that is done to show off our good works is limited. It may bring glory to God for the good that is in it. But the fact we try to steal God's glory delegitimizes us from being honored in those acts.

 

[Robert Pate]

What's your's? A license to sin?
I am happy because I do know the gospel. It is the power of God in my life freeing me from all sin and possession of gifts of the Spirit. The best gifts I have are hearing God's voice, and visually seeing a glow around a pastor during his giving his sermon. My pastor has a bright white glow. But I've also seen one with a black smoke. Do you have any gifts of the Spirit?

No, you don't know the Gospel, if you did you would not be preoccupied with yourself.

You hear voices? So did the guy that murdered 22 people. If I were you, I would drop out of the Pentecostal religion.

 

[Robert Pate]

I only partly agree with you. In saying that righteousness is not something we "do" you are conveying something that can be confusing.

Of course righteousness is something we "do!" But you're right that all virtue comes from God and nothing we do that is "right" comes from any virtue other than that which comes from God. We are made to be righteous by being born in the image of God, and we are "made righteous" when we are born again.

The kind of righteousness we do that attains to Eternal Life requires that what we do comes out of a new character born from Christ. Otherwise our righteousness is like a "one off," being here for the moment or even for our own glory.

Righteousness that is done to show off our good works is limited. It may bring glory to God for the good that is in it. But the fact we try to steal God's glory delegitimizes us from being honored in those acts.

There are two kinds of righteousness, the righteousness of man and the righteousness of God. No one possess the righteousness of God, except Jesus Christ. The Bible does not teach that we become righteous by being born again. Christ is the Christians righteousness. We don't have any, because, "There is NONE righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

 

[Randy Kluth]

There are two kinds of righteousness, the righteousness of man and the righteousness of God. No one possess the righteousness of God, except Jesus Christ. The Bible does not teach that we become righteous by being born again. Christ is the Christians righteousness. We don't have any, because, "There is NONE righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10.

That is a bit confusing. Yes, Christ is our righteousness. But no, we do become righteous by being Born Again, which is just the same thing as receiving Christ in our heart. Receiving Christ means we embrace his righteousness and do his righteousness.

I agree that no lasting righteousness exists apart from Christ. But righteousness is replete in everyone God has made to live in His Image. All men can do good, or "be righteous." And it is truly coming from Christ, because God made all men to be able to do good.

But what makes our righteousness lasting is when we choose Christ to be permanently affixed within our soul, and become "Born Again." Then our righteousness will never end because Christ will be forever with us.

There is, I think, a profound difference between the righteousness that the world produces, by God's Word, and the righteousness of the Born Again person. Those who have accepted Christ as their "Eternal Life" are endowed with characters that reflect a goodness that befits a "character."

Virtues like kindness, gentleness, patience, etc. reflect not just "doing good," but much more, a "being good." That's what happens when we accept him who *is good.*

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, you don't know the Gospel, if you did you would not be preoccupied with yourself.

You hear voices? So did the guy that murdered 22 people. If I were you, I would drop out of the Pentecostal religion.

What is the gospel to you? And thank you for exposing your heart in your post. It makes me examine myself to assure I am a spotless Bride for My Lord, and that all the fruit of the Spirit in me are mature.

 

[Robert Pate]

That is a bit confusing. Yes, Christ is our righteousness. But no, we do become righteous by being Born Again, which is just the same thing as receiving Christ in our heart. Receiving Christ means we embrace his righteousness and do his righteousness.

I agree that no lasting righteousness exists apart from Christ. But righteousness is replete in everyone God has made to live in His Image. All men can do good, or "be righteous." And it is truly coming from Christ, because God made all men to be able to do good.

But what makes our righteousness lasting is when we choose Christ to be permanently affixed within our soul, and become "Born Again." Then our righteousness will never end because Christ will be forever with us.

There is, I think, a profound difference between the righteousness that the world produces, by God's Word, and the righteousness of the Born Again person. Those who have accepted Christ as their "Eternal Life" are endowed with characters that reflect a goodness that befits a "character."

Virtues like kindness, gentleness, patience, etc. reflect not just "doing good," but much more, a "being good." That's what happens when we accept him who *is good.*

The Bible does not teach that man has a righteousness that God will accept. God only accepts the righteousness of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him and because of him.

Your doctrine is Roman Catholicism and is not according to the Bible.

 

[Robert Pate]

What is the gospel to you? And thank you for exposing your heart in your post. It makes me examine myself to assure I am a spotless Bride for My Lord, and that all the fruit of the Spirit in me are mature.

You are not a spotless bride. You are the worst kind of a sinner, a hypocrite.

 

[Jay Ross]

We should be mindful that there is a line, or a point in time, when mature fruit becomes spoiled, that is often crossed unnoticed.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You are not a spotless bride. You are the worst kind of a sinner, a hypocrite.

Let us both work out our own salvation with fear and trembling! Jesus is coming very soon. Just imagine. I don't know about you, but I can't wait.

 

[Randy Kluth]

The Bible does not teach that man has a righteousness that God will accept. God only accepts the righteousness of Jesus Christ. We are accepted only in him and because of him.

Your doctrine is Roman Catholicism and is not according to the Bible.

I've been a Protestant since birth, and was confirmed a Lutheran. The doctrines I was raised on were essentially "anti-Catholic," though I'm not personally "anti-Catholic."

I was raised on and believe in Justification by Faith in Christ Alone. He alone is our atoning sacrifice, and only by putting faith in him can we be born again and saved for all eternity. Putting our faith in works, apart from accepting Christ, is a temporary blessing at best, and cannot achieve Eternal Life.

When Paul spoke of God accepting Man's righteousness obviously the context involved a discussion of Works apart from Christ. Obviously God wants mankind to do righteous things, and is happy with that. But for purposes of Salvation he wants us to accept his Son and live exclusively by his Son.

Why do you think Jesus "loved" the young rich ruler who did lots of good works and yet could not follow him?

Mark 10.20 And he said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth.” 21 Looking at him, Jesus showed love to him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” 22 But he was deeply dismayed by these words, and he went away grieving; for he was one who owned much property.
23 And Jesus, looking around, *said to His disciples, “How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!

Paul did not say that men could not be blessed by their works, but that they're more blessed if they are credited as righteous *apart from their works.* That's because their works are flawed, and when we put our trust in Christ, we are able to have his flawless record imputed to us. When we choose to live by Christ alone, we benefit from his Spirit wh transfers Christ's spiritual life into our own lives, exhibiting his character and virtues.

Cain did good by making offerings to God, but God did not acknowledge them as worthy of recognition beyond the simple act of doing works. God wants something more, which translates into a conversion of our character to God's own spiritual character, which is what, apparently, Abel had. At least, that's how I look at it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[BlessedPeace]

What is the gospel to you? And thank you for exposing your heart in your post. It makes me examine myself to assure I am a spotless Bride for My Lord, and that all the fruit of the Spirit in me are mature.

That's pride.


I wonder what you edited out of your original post.

Today, the Good News that was to bring peace to the world has instead brought war among its faithful.

Racists defend their beliefs through abrogation of God's word. Cultists worshipping in a pagan edifice are assured they're the only true faithful bound for heaven. Protestors against that cult broke off and then broke and broke and broke again, as denominationalism began their own pride,ego and selfishness in the war among one another.

And what none of us seem to see? Is we are warring over who's right.In an effort to feel prideful that everyone else is wrong.

The other thing we don't realize? We're fighting over who is right in a faith where we are asking to be saved by the God who condemned us as sinners who would need be saved from his judgement upon us because we act out in the human nature he bestowed and made condemned,first.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free".

Maybe that truth is realizing the first faith to accept the definition of sinner for ourselves. While the second step of faith is to believe God who bestowed that condemnation upon us when we were born will save us from himself if we bow,scrape,grovel,and let ourselves be convinced all the good we do in life is no such thing.Because we first believe we are horrible because we are human. Made in the image and likeness of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That's pride.


I wonder what you edited out of your original post.

Today, the Good News that was to bring peace to the world has instead brought war among its faithful.

Racists defend their beliefs through abrogation of God's word. Cultists worshipping in a pagan edifice are assured they're the only true faithful bound for heaven. Protestors against that cult broke off and then broke and broke and broke again, as denominationalism began their own pride,ego and selfishness in the war among one another.

And what none of us seem to see? Is we are warring over who's right.In an effort to feel prideful that everyone else is wrong.

The other thing we don't realize? We're fighting over who is right in a faith where we are asking to be saved by the God who condemned us as sinners who would need be saved from his judgement upon us because we act out in the human nature he bestowed and made condemned,first.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free".

Maybe that truth is realizing the first faith to accept the definition of sinner for ourselves. While the second step of faith is to believe God who bestowed that condemnation upon us when we were born will save us from himself if we bow,scrape,grovel,and let ourselves be convinced all the good we do in life is no such thing.Because we first believe we are horrible because we are human. Made in the image and likeness of God.

With a name like BlessedPeace are you sure it is fitting? It is not a name you are living, nor a fruit you are presently bearing. James 5:20

 

[BlessedPeace]

With a name like BlessedPeace are you sure it is fitting? It is not a name you are living, nor a fruit you are presently bearing. James 5:20

 

[Bob Estey]

What is sin? Sin is the transgression of God's law, 1 John 3:4.

What is the law? The law is the nature and the Character of God. Jesus is the epitome of God's law. "But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets" Romans 3:21. If one is going to do or fulfill the law, they would have to be as righteous as Jesus. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 3:10. There is none righteous because all are born after Adam, "Wherefore as by one man sin entered the world, and death by sin; and so, death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned" Romans 5:21.

We are all related to Adam. He is our first father. We all have Adam's blood flowing through our veins, "For as by one man's disobedience many were MADE sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus) many shall be MADE righteous" Romans 5:19. We don't become righteous by our own works, we are MADE righteous. Just as we were MADE sinners, so shall we be MADE Righteous. How does Jesus make us righteous? Jesus is God's new Adam and our new humanity, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold all things are become new" 2 Corinthians 5:17.

The Gospel is spiritual. When Jesus lived, we lived in him. When Jesus died, we died in him, Romans 6:3. When Jesus was resurrected, we were resurrected with him, Romans 6:5. Jesus is our representative. When Jesus walked out of Joseph's new tomb our new humanity walked out with him. Christ is our righteousness, we are complete in him, Colossians 2:10. The righteousness of Christ becomes ours by faith in Christ and his Gospel and not by works, laws or religion, it is known as "Righteousness by faith". Paul wrote, "That I might be found in him, not having my own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith" Philippians 3:9.

According to the scriptures righteousness is not by what we do, other than faith. Righteousness is by what Christ did, his life, his death, his resurrection. We are MADE righteous. Because of the doing and the dying of Jesus God sees us as perfect and complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10. Do we have this righteousness now? No, it is reserved for us in heaven, 1 Peter 1:4. We do not have a righteousness that God will accept, because our Old Adamic nature has not been redeemed, Romans 8:23. When Jesus arrives we will be changed, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead in Christ shall be raised in corruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality, 1 Corinthians 15:52-53.

I know we've all sinned. I can't understand why some people believe we can't stop.