Are Christians Sinners?

[BlessedPeace]

I know we've all sinned. I can't understand why some people believe we can't stop.

I think Jesus was very clear that those who are in him do not sin.

Think of the implication if we were still sinners.
Because,as Jesus tells us, God's seed abides in us; and we cannot keep on sinning, because we have been born of God.

1John 3

 

[Robert Pate]

I think Jesus was very clear that those who are in him do not sin.

Think of the implication if we were still sinners.
Because,as Jesus tells us, God's seed abides in us; and we cannot keep on sinning, because we have been born of God.

1John 3

The reason that we continue to sin is because our Adamic bodies have not been redeemed yet, Romans 8:23. The new birth does not annihilate our old Adamic nature. It may subdue it, but it does not annihilate it. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 10:3.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The reason that we continue to sin is because our Adamic bodies have not been redeemed yet, Romans 8:23. The new birth does not annihilate our old Adamic nature. It may subdue it, but it does not annihilate it. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 10:3.

That's funny. It is our old Adamic nature called the old man that dies and is what is born again. That consists of our spirit/mind, and soul/heart/conscience, NOT OUR BODY. LOL It is only our body that doesn't need to die yet to be righteous, because it is neutral like a floppy puppet. The puppet cannot do anything without our born again nature pulling the strings! And that is why Jesus said we MUST be born again.

BTW, Paul is speaking of mankind since Adam that is not righteous, no not one. And it is in Romans 3:10, no 10:3. It is because of man's unrighteousness that Jesus came in the first place! It is Jesus that takes sin out of us that makes us righteous. We are FREE from the influence of Satan 1 John 3:8-9, 1 John 5:18.

But there are plenty of so-called Christians that have never been born again and will not inherit the Kingdom of God. They are the ones who will confirm that they will "always sin because of their very much alive body." Sad to be so ignorant of Scripture.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I think Jesus was very clear that those who are in him do not sin.

Think of the implication if we were still sinners.
Because,as Jesus tells us, God's seed abides in us; and we cannot keep on sinning, because we have been born of God.

1John 3

You are absolutely correct. But there are two types of sin. Sins unto death and sins NOT unto death. 1 John 3 is about the first type because it is about mortal sins unto death and this is when Jesus takes us from death to eternal life. But there is the other type of sin that we must tackle before we die through abiding in Jesus. 2 Peter 1:8-9.

Both types require abiding in Jesus and He in us, so we're good! Read John 15:1-4. Notice we are CLEAN. That's the first type of sin. "“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

 

[Robert Pate]

You are absolutely correct. But there are two types of sin. Sins unto death and sins NOT unto death. 1 John 3 is about the first type because it is about mortal sins unto death and this is when Jesus takes us from death to eternal life. But there is the other type of sin that we must tackle before we die through abiding in Jesus. 2 Peter 1:8-9.

Both types require abiding in Jesus and He in us, so we're good! Read John 15:1-4. Notice we are CLEAN. That's the first type of sin. "“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

It appears to me that you are fighting sin, when you should be resting in the righteousness of Christ, Hebrews 4:10. Why are you so concerned about sin? is it that you don't believe that Jesus has dealt with it? Paul confessed many times that he was a sinner, "For I know that in me (that is my flesh) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18. Because of our Adamic nature we are still sinners. There are two kinds of sinners, saved sinners and lost sinners. I am a saved sinner. Not sure about you. You apparently believe that John is a liar. "If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

 

[MatthewG]

The reason that we continue to sin is because our Adamic bodies have not been redeemed yet, Romans 8:23. The new birth does not annihilate our old Adamic nature. It may subdue it, but it does not annihilate it. This is why Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one" Romans 10:3.

Robert, I have heard "There is none righteous, no, not one" relates back to pslams, which infers there is no one righteous at all who doesn't believe in Yahava, or God. Have you ever heard this before?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It appears to me that you are fighting sin, when you should be resting in the righteousness of Christ, Hebrews 4:10. Why are you so concerned about sin? is it that you don't believe that Jesus has dealt with it? Paul confessed many times that he was a sinner, "For I know that in me (that is my flesh) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not" Romans 7:18. Because of our Adamic nature we are still sinners. There are two kinds of sinners, saved sinners and lost sinners. I am a saved sinner. Not sure about you. You apparently believe that John is a liar. "If we say that we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8.

Your accusations are only true in your mind.

 

[Robert Pate]

Your accusations are only true in your mind.

You are in denial of the scriptures. You want to believe that Paul and John are liars. Maybe you think that Isaiah is also a liar.

Isaiah said, "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness are as filthy rags: and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" Isaiah 64:6.

The fact that you don't think that you are a sinner is very serious. It may be that you are void of the Holy Spirit, which means that you are not a Christian, instead you are just a religious person like the Pharisees.

 

[Robert Pate]

Robert, I have heard "There is none righteous, no, not one" relates back to pslams, which infers there is no one righteous at all who doesn't believe in Yahava, or God. Have you ever heard this before?

Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one". I think that includes everyone or he would have said so.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You are in denial of the scriptures. You want to believe that Paul and John are liars. Maybe you think that Isaiah is also a liar.

Isaiah said, "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all of our righteousness are as filthy rags: and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away" Isaiah 64:6.

The fact that you don't think that you are a sinner is very serious. It may be that you are void of the Holy Spirit, which means that you are not a Christian, instead you are just a religious person like the Pharisees.

No, I said they were EASTERN. If you don't study the differences between the western mindset and the eastern mindset you might as well be happy being ignorant.

 

[Robert Pate]

No, I said they were EASTERN. If you don't study the differences between the western mindset and the eastern mindset you might as well be happy being ignorant.

Eastern or Western does not make any difference or change anything.

 

[MatthewG]

Paul said, "There is none righteous, no, not one". I think that includes everyone or he would have said so.

I agree with Paul, without faith in Yahava, there is no one who is right - he is speaking about those who choose not to seek after Yahava. Well quoting from the old testament.

Aren't people who have faith in the Lord Yeshua, made right with God, though?

Romans 5:1-5​

Faith Brings Joy​

5 Therefore, since we have been made right in God’s sight by faith, we have peace[a] with God because of what Jesus Christ our Lord has done for us. 2 Because of our faith, Christ has brought us into this place of undeserved privilege where we now stand, and we confidently and joyfully look forward to sharing God’s glory.
3 We can rejoice, too, when we run into problems and trials, for we know that they help us develop endurance. 4 And endurance develops strength of character, and character strengthens our confident hope of salvation. 5 And this hope will not lead to disappointment. For we know how dearly God loves us, because he has given us the Holy Spirit to fill our hearts with his love.

Don't they express the fruits of his righteousness?

Philippians 1:8-11​

8 For God is my witness, how greatly I long for you all with the affection of Jesus Christ.​

9 And this I pray, that your love may abound still more and more in knowledge and all discernment, 10 that you may approve the things that are excellent, that you may be sincere and without offense till the day of Christ, 11 being filled with the fruits of righteousness which are by Jesus Christ, to the glory and praise of God.

 

[Behold]

Aren't people who have faith in the Lord Yeshua, made right with God, though?

​

The wonder of Salvation, ....

.... > is that you go to the Cross as a sinner giving your faith in Christ to God..., and you leave seconds later, "sinless", "blood bought"... a "Heir of God", and a "Joint Heir with Jesus", BORN AGAIN, having become the "righteousness of God, in Christ", .
= THE... "temple of the Holy Spirit".

And 5 mins before that happened to the BELIEVER, .. they were hell bound, John 3:36.... eternally separated from God, having no hope in this world.

The GRACE of God, is truly AMAZING.

 

[MatthewG]

.... > is that you go to the Cross as a sinner giving your faith in Christ to God..., and you leave seconds later, "sinless", "blood bought"... a "Heir of God", and a "Joint Heir with Jesus", BORN AGAIN, having become the "righteousness of God, in Christ", .
= THE... "temple of the Holy Spirit".

Those are some things to think about, behold. Being co-heirs with Christ, being filled with the righteousness which comes through the Lord Yeshua Christ, and they have a transformed life from once old life they lived, putting in the grave by picking up their cross, and being raised again into newness of life. It's really amazing that Yahava has indeed reconciled the world back unto himself, through Christ.

 

[Behold]

being filled with the righteousness which comes through the Lord Yeshua Christ

CHRISTiand are more the filled.

The born again are BECOME, "the righteousness of God, in Christ".

This is because they have received from God.. "The GIFT of Righteousness".

This is why Paul says that His self effort to DO righteousness, is "DUNG", as compared to the RIGHTEOUSNESS that is found by being "in Christ"...

One of the Mystical understandings, regarding Salvation, is to recognize, to understand, that God had to cause us to BECOME equal to Himself, ... regarding RIGHTEOUSNESS< before He could have us as His Own.

So, when you find someone who is carnally ranting about "doing righteousness" and "keeping law and commandments".. then you are dealing with a person who does not understand that we have to be equal to the Righteousness of God, before we can become HIS own.

Where is this found?

its found in the Sacrifice of Jesus, that is the "imputed righteousness".. that we receive from God.

Heaven does not allow sin or sinners into it.
You have to be as Righteous as GOD to enter there, and that happens when you are BORN AGAIN...

This is why Jesus says..."You MUST.... be .. born again".

 

[MatthewG]

CHRISTiand are more the filled.

I believe it all starts off with a seed, and needs to be watered and fed, and as those who continue to mature in Christ, will produce more of the spirit in their lives, rather than what the flesh brings to the tabel in my opinion, Behold. I don't know about you though. It takes time from babes in Christ to grow into Sons or daughters of God.

Verses about babes in Christ include12:

• 1 Peter 2:1-5, where Peter exhorts the believers to desire the pure milk of the word and to grow as living stones in God's spiritual house.
• 1 Corinthians 3:1-2, where Paul rebukes the Corinthians for being carnal and immature, and says he fed them with milk and not solid food.
• Hebrews 5:12-14, where the author laments that the readers need milk and not solid food, and contrasts the babes with the mature who can discern good and evil.
• Ephesians 4:14-16, where Paul urges the Ephesians to grow up in Christ and not be tossed by every wind of doctrine, but to speak the truth in love and edify one another.

 

[Behold]

It takes time from babes in Christ to grow into Sons or daughters of God.

We become a Son/Daughter of God, by being BORN AGAIN, as one.

That takes, an instant.

= Give God your faith in Christ and God washes your sin CLEAN, with the Blood of Jesus, and then gives you the "new birth".
This is to become a "new Creation in Christ"..
Its "instant".

Learning what that means, learning how to exist there, learning to become "I can do all things through Christ, which strengthens me".. can take a few months, a few years, and some never learn how to do that.
Some never "work out their salvation", and become "the fullness of the Stature of Christ".

Instead they become self righteous, faith broken, and live in this mess.. "carnal deed, confess, it, repeat it".

They are HERE.... .Hebrews 6:1... and Paul says we are to get OUT of those baby diapers, .. get out of that "crib stage".. baby Christianity.

Most do not.

 

[MatthewG]

Learning what that means, learning how to exist there, learning to become "I can do all things through Christ, which strengthens me".. can take a few months, a few years, and some never learn how to do that.
Some never "work out their salvation", and become "the fullness of the Stature of Christ".

Idk what happens to people who go on to learn. What happened to me was I was a very judgemental person at first judging everyone around me at first, however through time, and faith, those things started to finally settle down. Seems that all us start off as children (but children aren't meant to have everything down right away, and Yahava knows this). It's amazing that people can hear God be spoken about all day, but go on throughout the day without giving thanks to him at all. Guess it all depends on the heart of the individual. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me behold, or the audience at large whomever you are desirous to talk to. God bless you and all.

 

[Behold]

Idk what happens to people who go on to learn.

Here is exactly what happens to every person who is born again.

Hebrews 13:9

It says that we MUST get our "heart established with Grace'.... Which means, to get the revelation of who we have become IN CHRIST< as GOD's sees us, and not as we FEEL like we are....
See that?

So, if we dont get our heart tied down with the revelation of who we have become "IN CHRIST"< as "ONE with God""'= then a "doctrine of Devils", taught to you by a Catholic, or a JW, or some other "cult's "doctrine of Devils', will take your mind, break your faith, and have you in mental and spiritual bondage to their Lies.

 

[MatthewG]

Here is exactly what happens to every person who is born again.

Hebrews 13:9

It says that we MUST get our "heart established with Grace'.... Which means, to get the revelation of who we have become IN CHRIST< as GOD's sees us, and not as we FEEL like we are....
See that?

So, if we dont get our heart tied down with the revelation of who we have become "IN CHRIST"< as "ONE with God""'= then a "doctrine of Devils", taught to you by a Catholic, or a JW, or some other "cult's "doctrine of Devils', will take your mind, break your faith, and have you in mental and spiritual bondage to their Lies.

Sure do. Our feelings dont mean jack when it comes to knowing of Yahava sees you. Those who are believers, He sees them as their children. A Father who desires not only to take care of them, but he calls out to unbelievers too. A good God, who is full of mercy, and patience. It all comes by and through renewing of the mind.

Romans 12​

A Living Sacrifice​

12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Humble Service in the Body of Christ​

3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. 4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your[a] faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead,[b] do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.

Love in Action​

9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10 Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11 Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12 Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13 Share with the Lord’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality.
14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[c] Do not be conceited.
17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] says the Lord. 20 On the contrary:
“If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.”[e]
21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Amen. Thank you again for the discussion.