Are Christians the biggest barrier to a renewed relationship with God?

[quietthinker]

Poor choices and consequences? Yes, I agree.

No evidence that God pleaded with Lucifer to repent.
In fact, his fall was needed for the story of the redemption of humankind.
All part of the original plan. (the logos)

We can call these things choices, but I think it is part of the larger plan.
The redemption of humankind required a fall. A fall required a deception.
Satan fulfilled a role in that. And ultimately I believe he will be reinstated.
The ultimate triumph of grace. (love your enemies)

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Sooo, using your rationale, it is easy to deduct that God had nefarious designs. I can't accept that....particularly in the light of
1 John 1:5
'This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all'

 

[quietthinker]

The attraction should not be the people in a church, but the appeal of the truth that that church proclaims.

One of the amazing things about Christianity, seen in the epistles and in churches today, is the weird mix of people found there.
Intellectuals, high saleriy people, those who are not intellectual, those on basic wages, the beatuiful and the ugly meeting together over a common love for the truth.

it is how we share, express and demonstrate both this truth and its effects on how we live that is an inital attraction.

Truth never travels solo. It is always accompanied by the Holy Spirit.....and yes, it matters not the status we dish out amongst ourselves.... this status carries zero weight when it comes to truth.

 

[St. SteVen]

Sooo, using your rationale, it is easy to deduct that God had nefarious designs. I can't accept that....particularly in the light of
1 John 1:5
'This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all'

I wouldn't say "nefarious".
In the story of redemption there needs to be ALLOWED both protagonists and antagonists.
The story of Judas Iscariot is a perfect example. (and he will have consequences) But will be redeemed, I believe.

If you believe in Noah's flood, I might say that was a pretty horrible decision on God's part.
Was there really no other solution? Genocide to cover a botched creation?
No darkness at all?

[

 

[quietthinker]

I wouldn't say "nefarious".
In the story of redemption there needs to be ALLOWED both protagonists and antagonists.
The story of Judas Iscariot is a perfect example. (and he will have consequences) But will be redeemed, I believe.

If you believe in Noah's flood, I might say that was a pretty horrible decision on God's part.
Was there really no other solution? Genocide to cover a botched creation?
No darkness at all?

[

so you would blame God by saying it was a botched creation after he declared it very good?

 

[St. SteVen]

so you would blame God by saying it was a botched creation after he declared it very good?

What did He say before the flood?

Genesis 6:7 NIV
So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—
and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—
for I regret that I have made them.”

[

 

[quietthinker]

What did He say before the flood?

Genesis 6:7 NIV
So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—
and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—
for I regret that I have made them.”

[

Do we then deduct that God who we understand as all knowing made a bad move or do we reconsider the words Moses wrote by reinterpreting through the lens of Jesus?

 

[St. SteVen]

Do we then deduct that God who we understand as all knowing made a bad move or do we reconsider the words Moses wrote by reinterpreting through the lens of Jesus?

I question the Bible, not God.

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[Muna]

You can kind of catch God/Moses/Jesus/ and the words given Jesus in this patern between what is written here

Jesus said,

John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he,
and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me (Exod 4:15), I speak these things.

As it testifies to the same here

Deut 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee,
and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.

As Jesus confirms

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment,
what I should say, and what I should speak.

Nest verse in Deut 18

Deut 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

Jesus confirms the same here

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The Apostles confirm the same (Acts 3:22-23) And here, both confirming Jesus Christ

Acts 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.

As Jesus also said,

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

Jesus continues,

John 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Moses was actually for a testimony of things that would be spoken after him

Hebrews 3:5 And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

God the Father gave Jesus the words (John 17:8) he was to give them, which were the words of eternal life

John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

 

[quietthinker]

I question the Bible, not God.

[

I would then ask, what is the witness God has given of himself? The scriptural records are 2-4000 yrs old written from unfamiliar cultures/ languages.
We need a reference which is beyond 'academic'.

 

[St. SteVen]

I would then ask, what is the witness God has given of himself? The scriptural records are 2-4000 yrs old written from unfamiliar cultures/ languages.
We need a reference which is beyond 'academic'.

In my view, nothing can top a personal encounter with the living God.

I imagine that from your perspective, that is only for a select few.

That is a door that I suggest you leave open.

[

 

[Jay Ross]

In my view, nothing can top a personal encounter with the living God.

I imagine that from your perspective, that is only for a select few.

That is a door that I suggest you leave open.

[

Maybe. But your response within your own circumstances will be the basis for how God judges you

 

[St. SteVen]

Maybe. But your response within your own circumstances will be the basis for how God judges you

If God tells you to do something, you should do it.

The trick is knowing whether it was God.

[

 

[Jay Ross]

If God tells you to do something, you should do it.

The trick is knowing whether it was God.

[

The above is not in line with the thrust of my post.

It will be your response within your own circumstance that will be the basis for how God will judge you.

This is the same for all of us.

God love for us draws us to Himself, it will not be something that God tells us to do, which is why our response to God's drawing is what will be judged.

 

[St. SteVen]

The above is not in line with the thrust of my post.

Your post was both vague and incongruent.

[

 

[Azim]

St. SteVen said:

- Adam explained the situation to Eve, but added the don't touch rule.

I always find this part of Genesis interesting. Back in my youth group, a youth leader pointed out how males are hardwired by "sight", and females are hardwired by "touch". If true, where did Adam get that idea to add this rule for Eve?

 

[Jay Ross]

Your post was both vague and incongruent.

[

Well, one person gave my post a like, but you reacted with a personal attack which told me loudly that you did not like the fact that it is your response to God that will be the basis for how God will judge you.

If God tells you to do something, you should do it.

The trick is knowing whether it was God.

So, while you are arguing whether or not God told you to do something, the moment has passed for you and you have sealed your own fate.

 

[St. SteVen]

I always find this part of Genesis interesting. Back in my youth group, a youth leader pointed out how males are hardwired by "sight", and females are hardwired by "touch". If true, where did Adam get that idea to add this rule for Eve?

--- PARODY ---

Serpent: Did God really say... ?
Eve: He said don't eat and don't touch.
Adam: Oops, my bad, I said don't touch.
Eve: What?! God didn't say that? !!!
Adam: No, I added that because I know
you like to touch things without thinking.
Eve: So, you don't trust me? !!!
Adam: I'm looking out for our best interests. My job.
Eve: I see.
Serpent: Are you going to eat, or not? !!!
Eve: Let me check with the boss. - LOL
Adam: Scram serpent!
Serpent: Hiss... (walks away dejected)
Eve: Hey, let's check out that other tree.
Adam: Good idea!

Indeed.

[

 

[St. SteVen]

So, while you are arguing whether or not God told you to do something, the moment has passed for you and you have sealed your own fate.

LOL
Piss off.

[

 

[Jack]

Sometimes when I am at church, I ask myself.
"Would you associate with these people if you were not part of the same fellowship?"

Probably not if they are Bible believers.

 

[Jay Ross]

LOL
Piss off.

[

Could I guess that you have backed yourself into a corner which you now do not want to face.