Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

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RR144

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So the chosen people of God forgot all about His name according to you! And did not remember it again until God gave it to Moses? Now you are living in fantasy land.

Moses spent over 40 years with the Israelites and the priests and righteous souls. Now you are saying not one of them knew teh divine name?

And no it is not obvious that Adam knew the divine name and passed it down. That is your conclusion based on human reasoning and not biblical evidence
Ronald, may I ask WHAT is the Divine Name?
 

Aunty Jane

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That is certainly true of one betrothed, but consider the full marriage relationship (as it is written): The two become One.

So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”​
Well hang on a minute.....where does it ever say that God and his son "become one" as in a marriage arrangement?
The "oneness" of God and his Christ is that of a Father and son, not a husband and wife.
That relationship is to be exclusive to Christ and his bride which are the elect...those whom will rule with him in heaven.
If you yourself were to tell your own story third person, would the author of your story not be you?

In the case of God the matter is not that elementary but rather the revelation of matters of actual life and death and the unmixable natures of both Light and darkness, which men have not yet even fully imagined. Who then is on that "same page" and of that same mind, and who shall be?
I believe that the scriptures make that obvious.....only those who fulfill 1 Cor 1:10 can be of the elect. All must hold to the same beliefs because God does not speak with a forked tongue......his adversary does.....

God does not exist in disorder, factionalism and false doctrines and celebrations adopted from paganism.....so that leaves the divided churches of Christendom out of contention IMO.
What is left then are the ones who claim that God is with them personally, but they have no way to prove that they are guided by God' spirit because of having no brotherhood to back them up. Its just their word for it.....not very convincing except to themselves.
That leaves the ones who are outside of Christendom, but who do have a brotherhood who are global in scope and all hold to the same Bible based truths....the true disciples of Christ are out there fulfilling 'the great commission'. (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 24:14) They are not popular...in fact they are hated by many, just as Jesus said they would be. (John 15:18-21)

Who does that describe? I know who it describes to me....
 

Peterlag

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RR144

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You honestly don't see the context of receiving power? And that power is the spirit. The new nature. And that is your witness. You don't see that? Honestly?

ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
What Jesus is saying is ... he's going to send them the holy spirit, the holy spirit will give them power, and THEY, the Church will be His Witnesses throughout the earth.
 
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RR144

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I believe that the scriptures make that obvious.....only those who fulfill 1 Cor 1:10 can be of the elect. All must hold to the same beliefs because God does not speak with a forked tongue......his adversary does.....
Hmmm ... so all the elect within the Jehovah's Witnesses ALL hold to the same beliefs? There is NO differences of opinion among them. They believe EXACTLY alike? Is that what you're saying?
 

Aunty Jane

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Hmmm ... so all the elect within the Jehovah's Witnesses ALL hold to the same beliefs? There is NO differences of opinion among them. They believe EXACTLY alike? Is that what you're saying?
I am saying that over 8 million of Jehovah’s Witnesses, found in just about every nation on earth, all believe the same....exactly alike...one truth for all. The elect among us are but a few thousand these days....the majority having an earthly hope rather than a heavenly one, and we are all one brotherhood with no distinctions between us. All attend the same meetings for worship, and all accept one truth from the scriptures. (1 Corinthians 1:10) Unity is the identifying mark of true Christians.
 

Peterlag

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What Jesus is saying is ... he's going to send them the holy spirit, the holy spirit will give them power, and THEY, the Church will be His Witnesses throughout the earth.

Will this the Church be the witness because...

a.) They were filled with the holy spirit
b.) They were filled with faith and power
c.) They were a great bunch of loving people
d.) They all had really cool flesh that they walked in putting themselves first in everything
 

Robert Gwin

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“I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through ‘billions throughout history’...?

Why not leave the quote as is?
Why reinterpret?
Is simply says - me.

What was said was the ‘claiming one isn’t doesn’t simplify, it complicates & confuses unnecessarily’.
Not ‘The Bible is complicated and confusing’.

The bible is as simple & straightforward as the quote.
“I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through ‘billions throughout history’...?

Why not leave the quote as is?
Why reinterpret?
Is simply says - me.
Exactly, do I need to post it again Phil? Do you think everyone who has ever existed will receive eternal life?
What was said was the ‘claiming one isn’t doesn’t simplify, it complicates & confuses unnecessarily’.
Not ‘The Bible is complicated and confusing’.

The bible is as simple & straightforward as the quote.
As I stated in this case it was. Glad we agree on that sir.
 

-Phil

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Exactly, do I need to post it again Phil? Do you think everyone who has ever existed will receive eternal life?
Eternal life is actual… separate selves, individuals, soul…. is conceptual. Inspect and see clearly firsthand. To argue and debate is to miss what’s being said altogether. Actually inspect for yourself. Find out if this is actual. Reality might not turn out to be in line with any conditions or beliefs.

I mean, just stop and consider this simply. If life is eternal, there isn’t a point in time where it’s lost or received.
There is only the perpetuation of beliefs, and the ignorance of not inspecting these ‘matters’ & beliefs for oneself.

I am the way, the truth and the life. Nobody comes to the Father except through Me.
So simple & straighforward.
Needs no addition or interpretation.
Rejoice!
 
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Robert Gwin

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The spiritual part of every Christian has literally and actually been crucified, buried, and raised with Christ. The fact that this occurs spiritually and not physically doesn’t make it any less real.
The Bible is alive and exerts power Peter, and it does change lives. I have personally observed many who put on the new personality, and have become Christ's disciples, evolving from the works of the flesh to displaying the fruitages of the spirit Gal 5:19-23. This is more accurately the definition of the spiritual part of us Christians. No soul at this time has been "crucified, buried, and raised with Christ" at this time has eternal life, that is future for all of us sir.
 

Peterlag

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The Bible is alive and exerts power Peter, and it does change lives. I have personally observed many who put on the new personality, and have become Christ's disciples, evolving from the works of the flesh to displaying the fruitages of the spirit Gal 5:19-23. This is more accurately the definition of the spiritual part of us Christians. No soul at this time has been "crucified, buried, and raised with Christ" at this time has eternal life, that is future for all of us sir.

That's my whole point. I'm not in or walking in my soul. I'm walking in the spirit. Let's begin by looking at these 11 verses and keep in mind they do seem to be speaking about our time right now and not for some time into the future. We see this with statements like "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law." Well, I'm not under the law right now. Or "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not." I'm born of God right now. Or "being made free from sin, and become servants to God." I'm a servant to God right now.

Romans 6
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin,

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law,

Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

being made free from sin, and become servants to God,

1 John 3 & 5
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not.
 

-Phil

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at this time has eternal life, that is future for all of us sir.
If there is eternal, there isn’t time.
Just as if there is infinite, there isn’t finite.
Future is a thought, never in perception.
A unicorn.
 

Robert Gwin

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THE NWT is not an original manuscript. Frail imperfect men, added teh divine name where they thought appropriate. That makes teh NWT what is known as a dynamic translation (akin to a paraphrase) and not an actual translation.

But the issue is that it does not appear in any of the manuscripts from which all bibles were copied from. Not one of teh inspired writers of the NT used the divine name. And you should know that.

So you have a real problem with the inspired writers of the NT. They did not write the divine name, so you are implicitly chiding and rebuking them for not doing so when they quoted the OT.
No sir, it certainly is not, that doesn't exist. It is simply a translation. We know our brothers in the first century would never misquote any inspired passage they included in their writings, any more than Jesus would have altered Deut 6:13 when he quoted it to satan. That is from your translators sir, not ours.
 

Robert Gwin

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So the chosen people of God forgot all about His name according to you! And did not remember it again until God gave it to Moses? Now you are living in fantasy land.

Moses spent over 40 years with the Israelites and the priests and righteous souls. Now you are saying not one of them knew teh divine name?

And no it is not obvious that Adam knew the divine name and passed it down. That is your conclusion based on human reasoning and not biblical evidence
No sir, that was you saying that, His people have always known and use His name, and still continue today, making it known to the world Ron.
 

Robert Gwin

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"We"? Are you "anointed" Robert? I understand according to Witness theology that the New Covenant is made with the anointed.
Sorry for the misunderstanding of my passage Be, no sir I am of the other sheep, but I am still a disciple of Christ however, and do benefit from that covenant arrangement although not specifically made with me.
 

RR144

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Sorry for the misunderstanding of my passage Be, no sir I am of the other sheep, but I am still a disciple of Christ however, and do benefit from that covenant arrangement although not specifically made with me.
So let me ask, how do you benefit from a covenant arrangement you are not under?
 

RR144

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I am saying that over 8 million of Jehovah’s Witnesses, found in just about every nation on earth, all believe the same....exactly alike...one truth for all.

So you're telling me and everyone reading this, that there are no differences among you. That you and 8 million Jehovah's Witnesses believe the EXACT same things, with no minor differences? You accept wholeheartedly EVERYTHING that is taught to you by the 8 men who make up the Governing Body?
The elect among us are but a few thousand these days....the majority having an earthly hope rather than a heavenly one, and we are all one brotherhood with no distinctions between us. All attend the same meetings for worship, and all accept one truth from the scriptures. (1 Corinthians 1:10) Unity is the identifying mark of true Christians.
So who decides who is elect and non elect?
 
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Ronald Nolette

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Ronald, may I ask WHAT is the Divine Name?
Well the two most common pronouncing's are Yahweh/Jehovah. but these may or may not be right as Israel did not write down the vowel points when they wrote the divine name.

But I have become convinced god was not giving a formal name for HImself but simply a description of HImself--- " I am who I am"
 

Ronald Nolette

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No sir, it certainly is not, that doesn't exist. It is simply a translation. We know our brothers in the first century would never misquote any inspired passage they included in their writings, any more than Jesus would have altered Deut 6:13 when he quoted it to satan. That is from your translators sir, not ours.
Sorry, but the inspired writers did not pen the divine name once in the NT! Why did the Watchtower not use Yahweh in the nativity passage when the angel appeared to Mary? After all that is referring to Yahweh. Why did not Gabriel say Gods name? He is an angel who stands before God!

As for Deut. 6:13 in the NT, then why did the writers not include teh divine name when they were inspired to write the account? did they disobey god??????
 
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