Are Pastor's Salaries Biblical?

[Wynona]

Main points:

A. Pastor's salaries are unbiblical

B. The authority gospel ministers have to collect from people only involves food and water, according to Scripture.

C. Paul often (maybe never?) used this authority. He worked to provide for himself and those with him with his own hands and taught others to follow his example.

D. The "laborer being worthy of his wages" verse is referring to food and clothing, not church member's income.

E. Pastor's salaries can be quite high.

F. Pastor's salaries can take up an average of 33-49 percent of the total church budget.

H. Pastor's salaries turn church's into businesses and ministry into a predatory practice.

I. Pastors compromise Scripture in order to keep tithepayers satisfied.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of these points. It's one of the reasons I believe modern churches have been off course for over a hundred years. The last pastor we sat under was honest and admitted that the church was a business and had to run like a business.

If a pastor wants more than food and water, that's fine. He should work to have those things, teaching when he's able along with other elders.

A true ministry should prioritize the urgent needs of the believers and all those in need. Not a building fund or the pastor's salary. Jesus taught us to give to the poor and those in need directly, not tithe to pay for a big building and pastor's salary.

 

[Pearl]

I don't even know if we pay our pastor. He owns a pet shop.

 

[Wynona]

I don't even know if we pay our pastor. He owns a pet shop.

Very cool! I only know of two ministers that preach and work.

 

[Cassandra]

Our pastor is pastor of 2 churches. He is actively involved with both of them.
Our tithe is sent to the conference and every pastor in the conference receives the same amount of money. Big church, little church, same amount.
I have no problem paying tithe, and no problem on whether a pastor works outside or not. But note this:

"Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel." (I Corinthians 9:14)

 

[amadeus]

Very cool! I only know of two ministers that preach and work.

My last old pastor always worked in hardware stores for an hourly wage until he was no longer able to handle such a job.

 

[Behold]

1 Corinthians 9:14


New International Version
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

New Living Translation
In the same way, the Lord ordered that those who preach the Good News should be supported by those who benefit from it.

English Standard Version
In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

Berean Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has prescribed that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

Berean Literal Bible
So also, the Lord has prescribed to those proclaiming the gospel to live from the gospel.

King James Bible
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

New King James Version
Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.

New American Standard Bible
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

NASB 1995
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

NASB 1977
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

Legacy Standard Bible
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

Amplified Bible
So also [on the same principle] the Lord directed those who preach the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

Christian Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel.

 

[Wynona]

1 Corinthians 9:14


New International Version
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

New Living Translation
In the same way, the Lord ordered that those who preach the Good News should be supported by those who benefit from it.

English Standard Version
In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

Berean Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has prescribed that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

Berean Literal Bible
So also, the Lord has prescribed to those proclaiming the gospel to live from the gospel.

King James Bible
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

New King James Version
Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.

New American Standard Bible
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

NASB 1995
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

NASB 1977
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

Legacy Standard Bible
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

Amplified Bible
So also [on the same principle] the Lord directed those who preach the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

Christian Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel.

This is food and water.

 

[SavedInHim]

A shepherd's compensation isn't the real issue. The real issue is addressed in letter H. above: Church institutions are run like businesses, not as a spiritual organism.

 

[Lambano]

Very cool! I only know of two ministers that preach and work.

I had one pastor whose family owned a farm that was (surprisingly) profitable. And another whose wife was a university professor who made a heckuva lot more than we paid him.

 

[Behold]

This is food and water.

!.) "Living "

Notice..

Berean Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has prescribed that those who preach the gospel should RECEIVE their LIVING from the gospel.

Do you know what the word "RECEIVE" means?

Its means more then eating and drinking water.

So, can a person live by bread and water?

Do you want to try it @Wynona .

Oh that's right you are too busy using the Internet, and your Laptop, and your living room in your House/Apartment, that is near your Kitchen.. .while you cast your "bread and wanter" judgementalism sentence upon someone whose given their life to God to become such a servant.

Listen,
A person's "Living" consists of more then food and water.

For example...

1.) Shelter
2.) Transportation

A Minister has to have a lot more then that...

Does your Pastor walk to church, barefoot, wearing rags?

Your Theology would have them like that...

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Church institutions are run like businesses, not as a spiritual organism.

Because they ARE BUSINESSES, subject to the laws of the country they operate in.

 

[Wynona]

!.) "Living "

Notice..

Berean Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has prescribed that those who preach the gospel should RECEIVE their LIVING from the gospel.

Do you know what the word "RECEIVE" means?

Its means more then eating and drinking water.

So, can a person live by bread and water?

Do you want to try it @Wynona .

Oh that's right you are too busy using the Internet, and your Laptop, and your living room in your House/Apartment, that is near your Kitchen.. .while you cast your "bread and wanter" judgementalism sentence upon someone whose given their life to God to become such a servant.

Listen,
A person's "Living" consists of more then food and water.

For example...

1.) Shelter
2.) Transportation

A Minister has to have a lot more then that...

Does your Pastor walk to church, barefoot, wearing rags?

Your Theology would have them like that...

I never said they only have to settle for just food and water. They can work just like anyone else if they want more than that.

None of the new testament disciples or apostles took a salary based off a church tithe. They never taught anyone else to either. That is the issue I take. If a pastor earns the money himself from his own work, I have no issue with him being even wealthy.

 

[Behold]

I never said they only have to settle for just food and water. They can work just like anyone else if they want more than that.

They are working. @Wynona

They are getting your sermon ready.
They then have to deliver it 2x on Sunday and once on Wed. (in most cases).
They are managing the Deacons, and all of the "officers of the Church".
They are managing all the "church" Bills that are due, each month.

They council people, during the week, each day.
They perform Funerals .
They perform Marriages.
They perform water baptisms
They visit the sick in Hospitals, or in their Homes.
They write Books and Commentaries., etc.

And so much more..

So, you need to stop listening to these Liars who create these online Videos, as these people may not even be A Christian.
And its obvious they just want to create discontent and strife and confusion.... as that is always the devil's work.

None of the new testament disciples or apostles took a salary based off a church tithe.

Paul was a tent maker who also took what the churches would send him to finance his long missionary journeys.
And he asked them for this Help., and they sent it.

If a pastor earns the money himself from his own work, I have no issue with him being even wealthy.

Perhaps once day, you can realize that being a Pastor is a lot of work.

 

[Wynona]

They are working. @Wynona

They are getting your sermon ready.
They then have to deliver it 2x on Sunday and once on Wed. (in most cases).
They are managing the Deacons, and all of the "officers of the Church".
They are managing all the "church" Bills that are due, each month.

They council people, during the week, each day.
They perform Funerals .
They perform Marriages.
They perform water baptisms
They visit the sick in Hospitals, or in their Homes.
They write Books and Commentaries., etc.

And so much more..

So, you need to stop listening to these Liars who create these online Videos, as these people may not even be A Christian.
And its obvious they just want to create discontent and strife and confusion.... as that is always the devil's work.




Paul was a tent maker who also took what the churches would send him to finance his long missionary journeys.
And he asked them for this Help., and they sent it.



Perhaps once day, you can realize that being a Pastor is a lot of work.

I also never said Pastoring isn't work. It is. Ministry is hard work. But Jesus never charged for healing or teaching. It was a service.

Financing missionary work is not the same as the modern tithe system to pay a pastor's salary.

Businesses are not service. A church cannot be both a business and a service. When a church has to pay the staff salary and the building utilities, less can go to those with urgent needs.

Ministry is labor but a comfortable salary isn't the right motivation for it. Its strictly for the spiritual and practical benefit of those you minister to.

I get that this is a very personal topic for you. But I never said pastors only had to live off their basic needs being met and I never said pastors don't work.

 

[Adrift]

I know of several ministries in Texas and Oklahoma where the ministers wear expensive jewelry and clothes. They drive Rolls Royces and own jet airplanes, yet they complain every Sunday that people aren't tithing enough! The good thing is that these unGodly types are not common. Most ministers that I know are honorable and don't waste the church money on personal glorification. It amazes me that these high roller ministries continue to attract church members.

 

[Lambano]

I had one pastor whose family owned a farm that was (surprisingly) profitable. And another whose wife was a university professor who made a heckuva lot more than we paid him.

... and I had one pastor whose husband split, leaving her with a teenage daughter. I have no regrets that we supported her with a salary and housing in the church parsonage. Nor do I regret supporting the pastor with medical insurance for his son who had ALS, one of the most horrible diseases it's ever been my misfortune to see. Or the pastor whose daughter had cystic fibrosis, who gave up a potentially lucrative career as a major league baseball player in order to answer God's call on his life...

Anyway, some applicable scriptures are 1 Corinthians 9:3-18, and 2 Corinthians 11:8-9. Paul, as an evangelist, was paid by the Macedonian churches who sent him, in order to not be a burden on the Corinthian churches.

 

[Duck Muscles]

Didn't Jesus tell his apostles to leave their purses behind when they set out on his great commission?

Let those who received them also sustain their living with grateful charity?

I knew a pastor who was also a Realtor. All tithes went to sustain the church and its public services to the local community.

However, I would wonder how much of a shepherd a pastor working a 40 hour week could be?

Would they stretch themselves too thin? For example , working for someone else,could they be there for their flock in emergencies?

 

[Aunty Jane]

1 Corinthians 9:14


New International Version
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

New Living Translation
In the same way, the Lord ordered that those who preach the Good News should be supported by those who benefit from it.

English Standard Version
In the same way, the Lord commanded that those who proclaim the gospel should get their living by the gospel.

Berean Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has prescribed that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

Berean Literal Bible
So also, the Lord has prescribed to those proclaiming the gospel to live from the gospel.

King James Bible
Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

New King James Version
Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel.

New American Standard Bible
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

NASB 1995
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

NASB 1977
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

Legacy Standard Bible
So also the Lord directed those who proclaim the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

Amplified Bible
So also [on the same principle] the Lord directed those who preach the gospel to get their living from the gospel.

Christian Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should earn their living by the gospel.

No guessing about what you are trying to justify here….the “living” was not more than food, water and at times shelter…..necessities only. In Jesus’ day it was customary for Jews to extend hospitality to guests and to receive strangers hospitably, which is why Jesus told his apostles not to take provisions with them as they would be provided for as a matter of custom. Later, that changed.

The way Jesus lived was not concerned with receiving, but in giving, and he encouraged his disciples to follow his example. No one should profit from service to God….those who are God’s servants, have no thought of monetary gain any more than a slave in a master’s house expected more than a place to live and some food and water…..that was payment enough for their services.

Paul was a tent maker by trade, who worked for his own keep…..he told the disciples why….Paul had no money to give, but he did have time, and he freely gave it!……“Having a tender affection for you, we were well pleased to impart to you, not only the good news of God, but also our own souls, because you became beloved to us. Certainly you bear in mind, brothers, our labor and toil. It was with working night and day, so as not to put an expensive burden upon any one of you, that we preached the good news of God to you.” (1 Thess 2:8-9)

The other thing to consider was that there was never just one pastor for the congregation…….there was a body of elders who cared for the needs of the flock, so the responsibility was never placed on just one man.
The workload was shared and that allowed time for each to hold down employment so as to pay their own way.

Being raised in the church system, it bothered me that we were always asked for money for the minister, so that he could continue his work. He had a house, a car and all utilities paid for by the congregation and yet it never seemed to be enough. There was this expectation that it was his due….and yet as Jesus clearly said… “You received free, give free.” (Matt 10:8)

It is one of the things that drew me to Jehovah’s Witnesses….there are no paid clergy…..everyone is self supporting and voluntary contributions are made to support missionaries, but only a small allowance for necessities is given. There is no tithing as not all can afford to give financially, (especially in hard economic times) so they give of their time in caring for those in the congregation who might need their help physically, emotionally or even spiritually.

There are appointed teachers in the congregations, but all congregation members are preachers of the Kingdom message….even the children have a share in the ministry.
We are all students of God’s word and it’s a course from which we never graduate…..no one could ever know it all….there is always more to learn about God and his purpose for us here on this earth.

Coming to really know Jehovah and his son, is where salvation comes from. (John 17:3)

 

[Spyder]

1 Corinthians 9:14 - The reference has special interest, because it shows that St. Paul was at least orally familiar with the discourses of Christ. Indeed, there is nothing impossible or improbable in the supposition that some of these were already being circulated in manuscript. Should live of the gospel. If, that is, they desired and had need to do so. He does not say, "to live of the altar," because Christians have no "altar" except in the metaphorical sense in which the cross is called an altar in Hebrews 13:10. (biblehub.com)

Doesn't that seem to indicate that the idea of laying our gifts at the altar is a bit difficult? The whole idea that the "message" is associated with profit and loss causes me great concern.

Mt 10:8–10 You received without paying; give without pay. Acquire no gold or silver or copper for your belts, no bag for your journey, or two tunics or sandals or a staff, for the laborer deserves his food.

Lk 10:7 And remain in the same house, eating and drinking what they provide, for the laborer deserves his wages.

Yeshua did not send only one man to declare His message. He sent 12.

The pit that churches have fallen into is that it is "big business" for many. There is no tithe required in the New Covenant, and it started in the U.S. after complaints that states could not support churches (making them the "state church") Suddenly, the "tithe" applied to the New Covenant.

The situation where there is one pastor and some deacons does not mirror the first century Christian assembly. Since this method of preaching and teaching has become a business, the message from Yahweh is controlled by those who pay the staff. A church "statement of faith" dictates what the pastor may or may not teach, not what the congregation is required to believe.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Main points:

A. Pastor's salaries are unbiblical

B. The authority gospel ministers have to collect from people only involves food and water, according to Scripture.

C. Paul often (maybe never?) used this authority. He worked to provide for himself and those with him with his own hands and taught others to follow his example.

D. The "laborer being worthy of his wages" verse is referring to food and clothing, not church member's income.

E. Pastor's salaries can be quite high.

F. Pastor's salaries can take up an average of 33-49 percent of the total church budget.

H. Pastor's salaries turn church's into businesses and ministry into a predatory practice.

I. Pastors compromise Scripture in order to keep tithepayers satisfied.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of these points. It's one of the reasons I believe modern churches have been off course for over a hundred years. The last pastor we sat under was honest and admitted that the church was a business and had to run like a business.

If a pastor wants more than food and water, that's fine. He should work to have those things, teaching when he's able along with other elders.

A true ministry should prioritize the urgent needs of the believers and all those in need. Not a building fund or the pastor's salary. Jesus taught us to give to the poor and those in need directly, not tithe to pay for a big building and pastor's salary.

Sorry but a pastors salary is biblical.

In biblical days food and drink and clothing was just like a salary, but times h ave changed and now a salary is needed to buy food and clothing.

It seems most of your reasons are personal biases and not valid biblical arguments.

1.A laborer is worthy of his wages is whatever wage is settled upon.
2. A new church plant may require a pastor to work as he has to build a congregation.
3. Pastors should be able to focus on the word and prayer and not on providing for their families.
4. 1 Timothy 5:17
Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.
honour is "time" and is first and foremost a value word in terms of monetary value.
5. A church should take an anonymous cesus of peoples salary, find the median and then give the pastor double that.
6. If Pastors start going negative, the bible gives many tools to either get the pastor back on track or remove him, but not paying him is not one of them unless he is brought up on specific charges.
7. Pastors should not fix their salaries, but probably the best is let the church appoint a commission from amongst themselves and they can determine the salary.

But Pastors who labor well in the word should not have the added burden of having to take another job to care for his family and self. That takes him away from teh priority hje has in his calling to care for the flock god appointed him over.