Are Some Unable To Be Renewed To Repentance?

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GTW27

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Hello brother

Have you ever visited many mental institutions ?
They are half full of Christians which have driven themselves over the top crazy, by believing that the verse refers to them . We have counselled so many , but it’s next to impossible to change their mind.
Whatever they did, they have convinced themselves that they are doomed.

(One reason that I do not believe that Christian suicide is unpardonable )

Please be careful with that verse,
Just my opinion. o_O

I have been to these institutions. Look for the visitors (test the spirit) hiding there, and you will find the cause of what drove them to this belief. Torment and fear are weapons used by our enemy. Whenever I have been in these places, that which is hidden, always comes to the surface(manifest) because He who is in us, is Holy. It is the same today as when Jesus came in the flesh. In other words, look for the source and not the symptom and they can be set free.
 

CharismaticLady

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It is possible that upon coming back to Christ and pleading for mercy, the person could be pardoned and be saved as of by fire, because Jesus promised that those who came to Him, He would not cast out. But they would never be able to be restored to full repentance and regain what they had before.

"saved as by fire" doesn't have to do with sin. It has to do with ministry.
 

Paul Christensen

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"saved as by fire" doesn't have to do with sin. It has to do with ministry.
Acknowledged.
What I meant was that the person could be saved by the skin of his teeth because he trusted in Christ's promises that "He who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out."

But in actual practice, and we saw very clearly in our exchanges with atheists and agnostics on CF, that no way would they climb down from their arrogant views and spend at least a few second considering that the gospel might be true. It appeared that they were totally blinded to the gospel, even though it was clearly presented to them time after time. Even though sound and logical arguments were presented to them, they just kept on banging the same drum with repeated identical comments thinking that by belting us over the head enough times we will accept that their atheism was right!
 

Stranger

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I gave a very lengthy interpretation of the verses described here on April 26, 2017. It can be found in the 'Bible Study Forum'. Just type in 'Explanation of the Warning in Heb. 6:1-8'.

If any have any questions concerning it, I will be glad to answer.

Stranger
 
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Paul Christensen

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I gave a very lengthy interpretation of the verses described here on April 26, 2017. It can be found in the 'Bible Study Forum'. Just type in 'Explanation of the Warning in Heb. 6:1-8'.

If any have any questions concerning it, I will be glad to answer.

Stranger
I looked for it but couldn't find it.
 

quietthinker

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Hello brother

Have you ever visited many mental institutions ?
They are half full of Christians which have driven themselves over the top crazy, by believing that the verse refers to them . We have counselled so many , but it’s next to impossible to change their mind.
Whatever they did, they have convinced themselves that they are doomed.

(One reason that I do not believe that Christian suicide is unpardonable )

Please be careful with that verse,
Just my opinion. o_O

My personal belief is that I believe no one is past repentance.

I have seen souls destroyed by that verse in Hebrews .
They died tormented by it.

God be praised. H
Yes, its a serious matter.....God will not be trifled with, Judas is a case in point.
 

CharismaticLady

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Acknowledged.
What I meant was that the person could be saved by the skin of his teeth because he trusted in Christ's promises that "He who comes to Me I will in no wise cast out."

But in actual practice, and we saw very clearly in our exchanges with atheists and agnostics on CF, that no way would they climb down from their arrogant views and spend at least a few second considering that the gospel might be true. It appeared that they were totally blinded to the gospel, even though it was clearly presented to them time after time. Even though sound and logical arguments were presented to them, they just kept on banging the same drum with repeated identical comments thinking that by belting us over the head enough times we will accept that their atheism was right!

The only way I approach atheists or the unsaved is with my many testimonies of His power. That is what Paul did. He told of His encounter with Jesus.
 

Enow

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"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame" (Hebrews 6:4-6).

I want to give my take on this Scripture to make a bit clearer exactly who this Scripture refers to.

Keep it in context since this is about all the steps the new believers had taken in being His disciples in the beginning for which the exhortation to continue to perfection is given. In other words, not laying again that foundation that new believers had gone through.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.

So the point of Hebrews 6:4-6 is to testify that there is no need for that "laying again the foundation" and why, because we can't crucify Jesus Christ again. When we read on, we see the reality for those that do not go on to perfection, but to sowing to the works of the flesh.

Hebrews 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

So if you apply the metaphor to 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 where the believer is judged by what they had built on that foundation, and yet the spirit is saved when their bodies are destroyed by physical death, you can see Hebrews 6:7-8 as inferring that life has been received as the ground had received the rain, but what grew there was to be subjected to be burned, but the rain is still in the ground as life received for why there is no need to lay again the foundation that the believer went through at the beginning, but to call to repentance in order to continue on to perfection.


But there is a class of people where the Scripture does apply and that the door to repentance is firmly closed to them. These are the ones who previously received Christ, got filled with the Holy Spirit, and enjoyed the Christian life for a period of time. Then, knowing full well what they were doing, they decided, or some reason, to reject Christ totally and go back to a sinful, atheistic world-view. According to the Scripture I have quoted, there is no way they can be restored to repentance and faith in Christ again. The door is firmly closed against them. Now some may not be able to accept that because the God they believe in has to accept everyone who desires repentance back into the fold, even though the Scripture says differently.

We see the example of Esau, when he lost his birthright and blessing, sought it earnestly with tears, but to no avail. Because he sold his birthright to Jacob, he had lost it forever. He had it and rejected it. This is the same as a person who receives Christ, and then afterward totally rejects Him and declares himself as an atheist. He fits right into the person described in the Scripture as totally unable to be restored to repentance because he has trodden the blood of Christ underfoot and crucified Christ afresh.

Now, this is the reason why some atheists on Christianforums.com and possibly on this forum, who were once born-again Christians, but for some reason, have rejected Christ and departed the faith altogether and declared that they are atheists, in spite of every attempts to persuade them to see reason and re-affirm faith in Christ, they remain totally adamant in their atheism, to the point of viciously attacking those believers who try to help them see and understand the gospel.

If a believer errs from the truth and have their faith overthrown, and become a former believer, they are still called to depart from iniquity because that foundation cannot be removed and neither can His seal. By discerning with Him at that throne of grace the lies that overthrew their faith, He will help them depart from iniquity and all other iniquities to be that vessel unto honor in His House when the Bridegroom comes.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Although they deny Him, and carnal believers & religious believers can engage in works of iniquity that denies Him, they will be denied by Him when He comes as the Bridegroom and left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation in becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House, because He still abides. That is why former believers are called to depart from iniquity so they too may be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Jesus Christ by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help them lay aside every weight and sin in running that race for the high prize of our calling.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So as led by the Spirit, one can continue to call for former believers to repent by going to Jesus for help with their overthrown faith to hope for God to recover them from the snares of the devil by seeing the truth in His words as kept in the KJV.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
 

Earburner

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"For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame" (Hebrews 6:4-6).

I want to give my take on this Scripture to make a bit clearer exactly who this Scripture refers to.

Right at the outset I want to say that it does not refer to genuine believers who fall into sin while yet retaining their general faith in Christ. I know they need to repent, and the opportunity for repentance is always open to them without restriction of any kind. We need to not only confess our sins but to keep our bodies under subjection by doing what we can to forsake any sinful habit patterns we might have. We need the strength of the Holy Spirit to accomplish it in most cases. That is a given.

The Scripture also doesn't apply to atheists, agnostics and cult members who have never known the truth of the gospel, have never received Christ or partaken of the Holy Spirit. The door to repentance is always open to them.

But there is a class of people where the Scripture does apply and that the door to repentance is firmly closed to them. These are the ones who previously received Christ, got filled with the Holy Spirit, and enjoyed the Christian life for a period of time. Then, knowing full well what they were doing, they decided, or some reason, to reject Christ totally and go back to a sinful, atheistic world-view. According to the Scripture I have quoted, there is no way they can be restored to repentance and faith in Christ again. The door is firmly closed against them. Now some may not be able to accept that because the God they believe in has to accept everyone who desires repentance back into the fold, even though the Scripture says differently.

We see the example of Esau, when he lost his birthright and blessing, sought it earnestly with tears, but to no avail. Because he sold his birthright to Jacob, he had lost it forever. He had it and rejected it. This is the same as a person who receives Christ, and then afterward totally rejects Him and declares himself as an atheist. He fits right into the person described in the Scripture as totally unable to be restored to repentance because he has trodden the blood of Christ underfoot and crucified Christ afresh.

Now, this is the reason why some atheists on Christianforums.com and possibly on this forum, who were once born-again Christians, but for some reason, have rejected Christ and departed the faith altogether and declared that they are atheists, in spite of every attempts to persuade them to see reason and re-affirm faith in Christ, they remain totally adamant in their atheism, to the point of viciously attacking those believers who try to help them see and understand the gospel.

The fact is, they fully understand the gospel, they have already experienced what it is to be a born-again believer filled with the Holy Spirit, but with that full knowledge, they have rejected Christ, trodden His blood underfoot and crucified Him afresh, and so there is no way they can repent; and so they can do no other but argue vehemently against any attempt to persuade them back to faith in Christ.

Even if they do decide to attempt to come back to Christ, and seek Him with remorse and many tears, their hearts cannot be changed, because the door to repentance is firmly closed against them. This is because a person can repent only through the work of the Holy Spirit, and if the Holy Spirit doesn't do it, there is no way they can repent. So although they might desire to undo their tragic rejection of Christ, they can only wait in fear for the judgement time where they will have to face the Lord and give an account for their rejection.

An example of one such atheist is the one who said in a post that they were once a born-again Christian, filled with the Holy Spirit, but because of an incident in their church, they decided to abandon the faith and become an atheist. Another person, who happened to be the Principal of a school I taught at, told me that he was a Spirit-filled Christian once, but because of all the "hypocrites" in the church, he decided to leave it and become and atheist. He told me that he wanted to go to hell, because his wife was also atheist and he wanted to go to where she is going so he wouldn't be separated from her. How very, very sad for him and her! So, according to the Hebrews 6 Scripture, there is little possibility that they will ever be restored to repentance.
I agree.
Our belief in Christ is the only means for our restoration to the Father. It is by the will of God, not by the will of our flesh.
John 1[12] But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

The desire to repent towards God, through Christ, cannot come to us, if we don't first believe that God is. Hebrews 11:6.
In these last days, just before the Lord's return from Heaven, we shall see more and more of those who are of that spirit of antichrist, and those who have fallen away from faith. 1 John 4:3 2
Thessalonians 2:1-3
Luke 18:8 (in conjunction with Heb. 11:6)
 
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Seasoned by Grace

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Brother, because so many people on this forum have an opinion.

And , as in another thread, to save arguments , it is wiser to say IMHO, than ‘light a fire’ and declare “this is what God says” For in truth that is boasting that the said person is declaring that they have a clearer interpretation of what a scripture is saying than the other person does.

Just my opinion :)


So brother HISMAN, does this put Jesus in the same state of "lighting a fire" and "Boasting," in Jesus declaring what God said, more times than I can count.

I thought Jesus was our example of sharing the truth in the face of false teaching and validating that belief by using God's own words when ours carry NO POWER or AUTHORITY.

I would think the boasting would be more about the tone of the "MESSAGE DELIVERER", and the tone of the MESSAGE.

God's words are full of POWER and AUTHORITY when man's words have none spiritually.

Bless you as you continue to Grow and learn my brother.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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^ 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

was about to post the same last night. “...except there come a falling away first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 17:12 (LEB): When I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given to me, and guarded them,* and none of them has perished except the son of destruction, in order that the scripture would be fulfilled.
 
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Enow

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^ 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

That falling away from the faith does signify that they are still saved when Paul addresses them as brothers still in the following chapter for why we are to not treat them as the enemy but withdraw from them to admonish them as brothers.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

These wicked unreasonable men that have not faith that do not follow after the tradition of us are those falling away from teh faith in giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils when they believe the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again and again and again after a sign, even a sign of tongues that comes with no interpretation nor understood by any foreigner because it is gibberish nonsense and thus assumed for private use when in relaity, it is not of Him at all nor that spirit that brought it. Indeed, other signs like slain in the spirit, holy laughter, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade and any others that promote receiving the Holy Spirit again after a sign is that lie that God will permit strong delusions to occur on believers that believe that lie as that iniquity that causes this falling away from the faith was already at work in Paul's days.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Think new age methodology where if one is Spirit-filled believer that seeks to receive spirits after a sign, denying Him as in him, then God will permit that strong delusion to occur.

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness

That is why Paul reminds believers of that tradition of the only time we will receive the holy Spirit is at the calling of the gospel when we had first believed in Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

So those involved in those apostasy today are still our brothers and sisters but unless they repent, they run the risk of being left behind to be damned by being resurrected after the great tribulation as vessels unto dishonor in His House..
 

Bible_Gazer

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1 Corinthians 9:24-27
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others,
I myself should be a castaway.
 

Waiting on him

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Which one...yours or mine?
the writer of Hebrews is speaking to the unsaved who have heard the truth and acknowledged it, but who have hesitated to embrace Christ. The Holy Spirit warns them, “You had better come to Christ now, for if you fall away it will be impossible for you to come again to the point of repentance.” They were at the best point for repentance–full knowledge. To fall back from that would be fatal.

Because they believe the warning is addressed to Christians, many interpreters hold that the passage teaches that salvation can be lost. If this interpretation were true, however, the passage would also teach that, once lost, salvation could never be regained. There would be no going back and forth, in and out of grace. But Christians are not being addressed, and it is the opportunity for receiving salvation, not salvation itself, that can be lost. John 10:27-29; see also Rom. 8:35-39; Phil. 1:6; and 1 Pet. 1:4-5).

If you are in Christ, rejoice. Your salvation is secure forever.
 
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Waiting on him

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That is the result of inaccurate interpretation and application of the passage and resultant false teaching of it. But the Apostle to the Hebrews wrote exactly what he meant - that an atheist who was once a converted Christian who subsequently totally rejected Christ cannot be restored to repentance. One doesn't have to be an expert in hermeneutics to know that. All he has to do is employ compehension 101 that a school teacher could teach to 10 year olds.

Some who tend to leave their brains at home when they go to church, interpret the passage to say that atheists who totally reject Christ after being genuinely born again and filled with the Spirit can be restored to repentance, when the clear statement is that they cannot. So they interpret the meaning of the word "impossible" and "cannot" as "possible" and "can".

It is the same as someone seeing the word "black" and interpreting it as "white".
The book of Hebrews is addressing Jews, this is why it’s labeled Hebrews. The audience isn’t atheist, they look to God for salvation but don’t understand they can only come to God through Christ. This is why in the beginning of the chapter Paul says leaving the doctrines of Christ. This would never be suggested to a Christian. He is speaking to Jews that have an Old Testament understanding of Christ. Laying on of hands; laying hands on their sacrifices.. washings; all the wash pots by the doors and washings before meals.. < baptisms

These are how Old Testament looks for Christ.>>>>
 

marks

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My personal belief is that I believe no one is past repentance.

I have seen souls destroyed by that verse in Hebrews .
They died tormented by it.

God be praised. H
Yes, that interpretation brings condemnation and fear where it's not supposed to be.

Much love!
 
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marks

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I strongly oppose anyone who says that a person who falls into sin is rejecting Christ. That is absolute nonsense!!! A person rejects Christ when he declares that he is now an atheist and no longer a Christian believer.

So the Hebrews Scripture refers solely to a former Spirit-filled Christian believer who departs from the faith and declares himself an atheist. While a person retains his Christian profession, the Hebrews Scripture definitely does not apply to him at all!!!!!
I believe the Bible is clear that this does not happen, that no born again child of God becomes athiest, and dies again.

Someone who professes Christianity, but who later departs from the faith, never really had it to begin with.

Much love!
 
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