Are Some Unable To Be Renewed To Repentance?

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Waiting on him

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But that is not the only place He says it. Luke's account is not linked to that incident. So what is the unforgivable sin in Luke's account? What else did Jesus say in Matthew's account for how to apply it that would tie in with Luke's account & Mark's account?



If that is the unforgivable sin where there is no forgiveness, then is there another way to blaspheme against the Holy Ghost in Luke's account?

Luke 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: 9 But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God. 10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

And yet that verse followed the verse in denying Jesus before men which was what the Pharisees were doing to Jesus by saying that.



But if the conclusion you draw from one scripture runs contrary to other truths in scripture then you have to wonder, because that is how false teachings takes off without having what you deem as the truth is not aligning with the rest of scripture since no lie can be of the truth.

Like using Mark 16:16 for how a believer is saved with water baptism which is false because it is speaking of the baptism with the Holy Ghost at their salvation since how they are condemned is by not believing in Him, but how can you prove that? By going to other scripture.

I agree that by itself, one can see your conclusion, but does it line up with the other truths in scripture? I'd say no.

As it is, what would you say to a Christian sister that had blasphemed the Holy Ghost as a Satanist in her former life of sin? No forgiveness? She is not really saved? She is a goner?

Why would God the Father bother saving her then? There would be no point to draw her to believe in Jesus Christ if there is no forgiveness of sin, and yet by believing in Him is how any sinner receives the remission of sins and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

So yeah.. you can point out that verse about what they had said, but what they had said was their unbelief by denying Him before men in that way.
Paul was a blasphemer, but He was forgiven because God knew he did it in ignorance And unbelief.
 
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marks

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As it is, what would you say to a Christian sister that had blasphemed the Holy Ghost as a Satanist in her former life of sin? No forgiveness? She is not really saved? She is a goner?
Hypotheticals aren't real, and I don't think we should work too hard to build arguments on them.

Just here, you are saying Christian, but, who had committed the unforgivable sin? That doesn't make sense. If someone did something for which there is no forgiveness, I don't expect that they will be my "Christian sister". Just like the person in Romans 2 whom God has given over to their sin. Do we ask whether they are able to repent?

I think this was something that you could only really do at the time of Jesus' ministry to the people, but I wouldn't be dogmatic on that. But I really think that the person who is concerned about it hasn't done it.

Much love!
 

friend of

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Lately I think the unpardonable sin can only be committed if the Holy Spirit himself decides to be offended and cast you off forever. Vilifying the HS is the quickest way to get to that point of no return where the HS gives up on the sinner. It's all up to the HS though. There is no methodology behind it that we could ascertain.
 

Waiting on him

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You guys are so off topic I don’t believe that you can ever get back lol. Regarding the op @Enow, would you encourage the born again to abandon the doctrines of Christ?
 

Waiting on him

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Hebrews 6:1 KJV
[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection;

If we want to know whom the audience is we need to understand what this means.
Tecarta Bible
 

Waiting on him

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The laying on of hands


Numbers 8:12 KJV
[12] And the Levites shall lay their hands upon the heads of the bullocks: and thou shalt offer the one for a sin offering, and the other for a burnt offering, unto the Lord, to make an atonement for the Levites.


Tecarta Bible
 

Waiting on him

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The doctrine of baptisms?

Sorry, to many in the law to list. Though I will say I believe our baptism is an inward washing we are unable to perform ourselves.
 
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Enow

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Yes, but what I'm saying is that on the one hand, we can derive a meaning from what we gather throughout the Word, and I'm not saying that's wrong to do, there are times we should, but there is also a particular meaning that is assigned in one place, which I think should take precedence over a derived meaning.

So when we can reach various understandings of what the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit "must be", we have a place that tells us what it is.

Much love!

Then if that be the truth, what do you tell a former Satanist turned Christian that had blasphemed the Holy Spirit before she was saved?
 

Enow

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It's not contrary at all.

Blasphemy, the word itself, is to vilify or insult. And that's what you do when you say the Holy Spirit is an unclean spirit.

Now, I realize there is an entirely different thought process about this.

I think the thinking goes . . .

There is an unforgivable sin that Jesus calls "blasphemy of the Holy Spirit".
The only sin that can keep you from salvation is an unforgivable sin.
What keeps us from salvation is unbelief.
Since the only sin that can keep you from salvation is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and since unbelief is what keeps you from salvation, then unbelief is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

My thinking is different.

Forgiveness of sins is not enough for us to be saved. We would just be the forgiven dead. Unless you are born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God.

All sins will be forgiven men. God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses against them. Even when we were enemies God reconciled us to Himself.

God put all our sin, all the sin of the world, onto Jesus, Who carried it all away, and now all our sins are gone. Those who are unregenerate will only go on to churn out more and more sin, and continue in living death. But those who are born again now have new life in unity with God.

Forgiveness of sins opens the door, but 'born of God' is new life, life with Him. But blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, for those Pharisees to stand there and tell those to whom these miracles are given that they might believe, to tell them that Jesus was doing that by the power of demons, unforgivable! Or at the least, in danger of that.

Much love!

So the former Satanist turned Christian that had blasphemed the Holy Spirit before she was saved is still in danger of ...? If so, I fail to see why the Father bothered to draw her unto the Son to believe in Him at all.
 

Waiting on him

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So the former Satanist turned Christian that had blasphemed the Holy Spirit before she was saved is still in danger of ...? If so, I fail to see why the Father bothered to draw her unto the Son to believe in Him at all.
Lol we’re all blasphemous prior to the Holy Spirit empowerment to believe.
 

Paul Christensen

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Keep it in context since this is about all the steps the new believers had taken in being His disciples in the beginning for which the exhortation to continue to perfection is given. In other words, not laying again that foundation that new believers had gone through.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this will we do, if God permit.

So the point of Hebrews 6:4-6 is to testify that there is no need for that "laying again the foundation" and why, because we can't crucify Jesus Christ again. When we read on, we see the reality for those that do not go on to perfection, but to sowing to the works of the flesh.

Hebrews 6:7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

So if you apply the metaphor to 1 Corinthians 3:10-17 where the believer is judged by what they had built on that foundation, and yet the spirit is saved when their bodies are destroyed by physical death, you can see Hebrews 6:7-8 as inferring that life has been received as the ground had received the rain, but what grew there was to be subjected to be burned, but the rain is still in the ground as life received for why there is no need to lay again the foundation that the believer went through at the beginning, but to call to repentance in order to continue on to perfection.




If a believer errs from the truth and have their faith overthrown, and become a former believer, they are still called to depart from iniquity because that foundation cannot be removed and neither can His seal. By discerning with Him at that throne of grace the lies that overthrew their faith, He will help them depart from iniquity and all other iniquities to be that vessel unto honor in His House when the Bridegroom comes.

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. 19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Although they deny Him, and carnal believers & religious believers can engage in works of iniquity that denies Him, they will be denied by Him when He comes as the Bridegroom and left behind to be resurrected after the great tribulation in becoming vessels unto dishonor in His House, because He still abides. That is why former believers are called to depart from iniquity so they too may be received by the Bridegroom as vessels unto honor in His House which is the eternal glory that comes with our salvation in Jesus Christ by looking to the author & finisher of our faith to help them lay aside every weight and sin in running that race for the high prize of our calling.

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. 14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers. 15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

So as led by the Spirit, one can continue to call for former believers to repent by going to Jesus for help with their overthrown faith to hope for God to recover them from the snares of the devil by seeing the truth in His words as kept in the KJV.

24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
In all this you are correctly talking about those who for some reason have departed from the faith in the sense that they have left the church, but have retained a belief in God nevertheless. They haven't openly declared themselves to be total atheists. There is a difference between a backslider or someone who has rejected the church because maybe they were subject to bullying, spiritual or sexual abuse, etc, but still retained even a spark of belief in God. They would still know that God is really there but they have given up trying to maintain the religious standard that others in the church, especially those who are legalistic and performance-based, expect of them.

Of course Jesus talked about the different types of soil, and there are ones who are like the plants in the shallow soil who flourish for a time and then fall away, and others in soil infested by weeds that choke their spiritual development. There are no limitations to those ones, and they are accepted back if and when they choose to repent and re-enter the faith again.

But the one who has walked with the Lord and filled with the Spirit, and then deliberately and knowingly decide, for no other reason, to turn their back on Christ and deny the existence of God altogether and spend their lives persecuting and rubbishing Christian believers, the Hebrews reference applies to them. These are not ones who have fallen into sin through temptation and the weakness of their flesh and have walked away from fellowship because they don't want to experience the shame of having to be corrected by others. They are the ones who have decided knowingly to totally crap on God and Christ because they have decided to hate Him and the thought of His existence for the rest of their lives.

We have encountered these ones on the forums, and no matter how hard we try, they will not consider for one moment that we could have valid points to prove the existence of God. My view is that because they were followers of Christ at one stage and experienced the revelation that God is really there, they know He exists, but they want to deliberately express their hate for Him by declaring that they are atheists and that there is no God.

Now these are totally different from sincere atheists who have never been followers of Jesus at any time. They are ones who were brought up to believe that there is no God. They are more likely to be persuaded by rational arguments supported by evidence that God is really there and that the gospel of Christ is really true. The Hebrews reference doesn't apply to them.
 

Waiting on him

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In all this you are correctly talking about those who for some reason have departed from the faith in the sense that they have left the church, but have retained a belief in God nevertheless. They haven't openly declared themselves to be total atheists. There is a difference between a backslider or someone who has rejected the church because maybe they were subject to bullying, spiritual or sexual abuse, etc, but still retained even a spark of belief in God. They would still know that God is really there but they have given up trying to maintain the religious standard that others in the church, especially those who are legalistic and performance-based, expect of them.

Of course Jesus talked about the different types of soil, and there are ones who are like the plants in the shallow soil who flourish for a time and then fall away, and others in soil infested by weeds that choke their spiritual development. There are no limitations to those ones, and they are accepted back if and when they choose to repent and re-enter the faith again.

But the one who has walked with the Lord and filled with the Spirit, and then deliberately and knowingly decide, for no other reason, to turn their back on Christ and deny the existence of God altogether and spend their lives persecuting and rubbishing Christian believers, the Hebrews reference applies to them. These are not ones who have fallen into sin through temptation and the weakness of their flesh and have walked away from fellowship because they don't want to experience the shame of having to be corrected by others. They are the ones who have decided knowingly to totally crap on God and Christ because they have decided to hate Him and the thought of His existence for the rest of their lives.

We have encountered these ones on the forums, and no matter how hard we try, they will not consider for one moment that we could have valid points to prove the existence of God. My view is that because they were followers of Christ at one stage and experienced the revelation that God is really there, they know He exists, but they want to deliberately express their hate for Him by declaring that they are atheists and that there is no God.

Now these are totally different from sincere atheists who have never been followers of Jesus at any time. They are ones who were brought up to believe that there is no God. They are more likely to be persuaded by rational arguments supported by evidence that God is really there and that the gospel of Christ is really true. The Hebrews reference doesn't apply to them.
Hi Paul would you tell a born again Christian to abandon the principles of the doctrine of Christ?
 

Enow

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Hypotheticals aren't real, and I don't think we should work too hard to build arguments on them.

Actually, I came across one Christian sister years ago but I do not remember which forum that was in.

Just here, you are saying Christian, but, who had committed the unforgivable sin? That doesn't make sense. If someone did something for which there is no forgiveness, I don't expect that they will be my "Christian sister". Just like the person in Romans 2 whom God has given over to their sin. Do we ask whether they are able to repent?

I think this was something that you could only really do at the time of Jesus' ministry to the people, but I wouldn't be dogmatic on that. But I really think that the person who is concerned about it hasn't done it.

I suppose so. She did not really say how she had done it, but she seemed to think she had done it for why she was worried. I cannot remember if I led the assurance of her salvation or added to someone else that did, but I did assure her that because she believes in Him, she is forgiven and saved.
 
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Enow

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You guys are so off topic I don’t believe that you can ever get back lol. Regarding the op @Enow, would you encourage the born again to abandon the doctrines of Christ?

No. If they abandon the doctrine of Christ, I would lean on Jesus Christ for the edification they need in calling them to repent.
 

Waiting on him

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No. If they abandon the doctrine of Christ, I would lean on Jesus Christ for the edification they need in calling them to repent.
Agreed, but this is all based on the assumptions that Hebrews is speaking to atheists. Which is false.
 
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Waiting on him

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No. If they abandon the doctrine of Christ, I would lean on Jesus Christ for the edification they need in calling them to repent.
No. If they abandon the doctrine of Christ, I would lean on Jesus Christ for the edification they need in calling them to repent.
There Jews looking to Old Testament doctrines of Christ.
 

Enow

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In all this you are correctly talking about those who for some reason have departed from the faith in the sense that they have left the church, but have retained a belief in God nevertheless. They haven't openly declared themselves to be total atheists. There is a difference between a backslider or someone who has rejected the church because maybe they were subject to bullying, spiritual or sexual abuse, etc, but still retained even a spark of belief in God. They would still know that God is really there but they have given up trying to maintain the religious standard that others in the church, especially those who are legalistic and performance-based, expect of them.

Of course Jesus talked about the different types of soil, and there are ones who are like the plants in the shallow soil who flourish for a time and then fall away, and others in soil infested by weeds that choke their spiritual development. There are no limitations to those ones, and they are accepted back if and when they choose to repent and re-enter the faith again.

But the one who has walked with the Lord and filled with the Spirit, and then deliberately and knowingly decide, for no other reason, to turn their back on Christ and deny the existence of God altogether and spend their lives persecuting and rubbishing Christian believers, the Hebrews reference applies to them. These are not ones who have fallen into sin through temptation and the weakness of their flesh and have walked away from fellowship because they don't want to experience the shame of having to be corrected by others. They are the ones who have decided knowingly to totally crap on God and Christ because they have decided to hate Him and the thought of His existence for the rest of their lives.

We have encountered these ones on the forums, and no matter how hard we try, they will not consider for one moment that we could have valid points to prove the existence of God. My view is that because they were followers of Christ at one stage and experienced the revelation that God is really there, they know He exists, but they want to deliberately express their hate for Him by declaring that they are atheists and that there is no God.

Now these are totally different from sincere atheists who have never been followers of Jesus at any time. They are ones who were brought up to believe that there is no God. They are more likely to be persuaded by rational arguments supported by evidence that God is really there and that the gospel of Christ is really true. The Hebrews reference doesn't apply to them.

2 Timothy 2:18 cite an example of a believer that err from the truth and had their faith overthrown. There are many believers and even pastors that lost faith in God and the Bible because of the lie of the evolution theory.

But yet. nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure and that seal of adoption is not going away for why these former believers are called to depart from iniquity. as Per 2 Timothy 2:19-21

Indeed, even if they believe not any more, He still abides as per 2 Timothy 2:13

So if a former believer is a total atheist now.. He still abides in him or her for why they need to be called to go before that throne of grace to ask Jesus for help to believe in Him again by seeing the error as lies and to find the truth needed for them to believe in Him again.
 
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