Are the 10 Commandments the Law of Moses?

[Raeneske]

Moses himself stated that:

Deuteronomy 4:12-14 And the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. 13 And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone. 14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

The Lord Himself declared unto Israel the 10 Commandments. The statutes and judgements were declared unto Israel by the mouth of Moses. It is God Himself that wrote the 10 Commandments. By whom were the statutes and judgments written by?

Deuteronomy 31:24-26 And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Joshua 1:8 This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.

Joshua 8:31 As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.

Only the book of the law was given the name "the law of Moses". It was not the Tables of Testimony written with the finger of God that were given that name. This is essential to understand, for if we do not, we make erroneous assumptions, like that the Tables of Testimony are considered the law of Moses, which through rightly dividing the Word of God, we find that they are not. They are not the same thing.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Well since the 10 commandments were written twice into the book of the law, then your whole argument fails.

But it is even worse than that because the significance that SDA place on the medium on which the commandments were written, their placement in the ark, and so on.. is not found in scripture, but must be added, somthing that breaks the following rules that I think all of us should follow:

1. It should not contradict or break scripture in any way whatsoever.
2. It should not add or subtract anything from scripture.
3. It should not go beyond what is written.
4. It should harmonizes completely with everything written in scripture, and
5. It should not allow human reasoning, or "fine-sounding arguments", to nullify scripture.

If you don't think these rule are good then tell me why.

 

[Raeneske]

Well since the 10 commandments were written twice into the book of the law, then your whole argument fails.

But it is even worse than that because the significance that SDA place on the medium on which the commandments were written, their placement in the ark, and so on.. is not found in scripture, but must be added, somthing that breaks the following rules that I think all of us should follow:

1. It should not contradict or break scripture in any way whatsoever.
2. It should not add or subtract anything from scripture.
3. It should not go beyond what is written.
4. It should harmonizes completely with everything written in scripture, and
5. It should not allow human reasoning, or "fine-sounding arguments", to nullify scripture.

If you don't think these rule are good then tell me why.

God's Ten Commandments are in fact reiterated within the book of the law, and even expanded upon for greater depth. But, to claim that the book of the law and the Ten Commandments are one in the same is erroneous. The fact is, is that they are two different things. We cannot apply the names "Book of the Law" or "The Law of Moses" to the Tables of Testimony. And no amounts of human reasoning can nullify that fact.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

God's Ten Commandments are in fact reiterated within the book of the law, and even expanded upon for greater depth. But, to claim that the book of the law and the Ten Commandments are one in the same is erroneous. The fact is, is that they are two different things. We cannot apply the names "Book of the Law" or "The Law of Moses" to the Tables of Testimony. And no amounts of human reasoning can nullify that fact.

That the 10 commandments were reiterated in the book of the law was exactly what I just said... wasn't it???

But rather than "reiterating" what I just said, you should be more concerned with why your theology does not conform to sound doctrine. "Sound" doctrine, I think, would conform to the sound rules I listed. So again, if you don't think they are "sound" then please explain why.

I also don't think it helps your case to pretend that I am claiming that the book of the law and the 10 commandments are "one an the same". Where did I say that they were the same? Please take note that you are the one making the "claim" in this thread. And of course it is you who is using human reasoning to nullify scripture, not me.

My contention, which by the way satisfies the rules I layed out, is that the 10 commandments were part of the old covenant, and that that covenant, together with the 10 commandments, was neither universal, nor permanent, but was "fading".

So, without adding to scripture, without appealing to human arguments, and without contradicting scripture.. prove me wrong..

 

[Forsakenone]

So how does one get 10 Commandments out of Exodus 20 when there appear to be 13, and more than 10 Commandments in Deuteronomy 5.
But in either section, neither contain the first Commandment as written in Mark 12:29

And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:


Exodus 20
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
1 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
2 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
3 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under
the earth:
4 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and
fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
5 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
6 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
7 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
8 12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
9 13 Thou shalt not kill.
10 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
11 15 Thou shalt not steal.
12 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
13 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
18 And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar
off.
19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
20 And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not.
21 And the people stood afar off, and Moses drew near unto the thick darkness where God was.
22 And the LORD said unto Moses, Thus thou shalt say unto the children of Israel, Ye have seen that I have talked with you from heaven.
23 Ye shall not make with me gods of silver, neither shall ye make unto you gods of gold.
24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my
name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.
26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

 

[pom2014]

The 693 commands are all fulfilled in the two great commands.

To debate the old way is a waste of time.

Two commands, easy, simple, better.

It's about time we shelve these outdated concepts.

 

[heretoeternity]

There were ten commandments written by the hand of God on the stone tablets and placed in the ark of the Covenant..Ex 20...these are what Apostle James refers to as "the royal law".....as Apostle John says in 1st John, those who say they know Him and keep not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them...as Jesus also said in John 14 v 15 if you love me keep my commandments..again referring to the Ten commandments..

Remember salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin...

 

[UppsalaDragby]

There were ten commandments written by the hand of God on the stone tablets and placed in the ark of the Covenant..Ex 20...these are what Apostle James refers to as "the royal law".....as Apostle John says in 1st John, those who say they know Him and keep not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them...as Jesus also said in John 14 v 15 if you love me keep my commandments..again referring to the Ten commandments..

Remember salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin...

This is what James wrote about the "royal law":

"If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, "Love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing right."

No mention of the 10 commandments whatsoever in other words.

Of course, SDAs choose to reverse engineer scripture so that it points backwards to the Old Covenant, but you won't find any of the NT authors supporting that idea.

And neither did John say anything at all about the 10 commandments.

This is actually what he said :

"And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us." (1 John 3:23)

Again, no mention of the 10 commandments...

 

[heretoeternity]

Yes, but this, James is identifying the ten commandments..do you not know that? Just as Jesus said Love God, and love your neighbour..He is identifying the Ten commandments, which God Himself wrote on the stone tablets as a sign of permanency..this is very elementary, and not open to misinterpretation, unless of course one wants to try and find ways to NOT follow God's Holy ten commandments, which of course is from satan, as he fooled Eve in the garden by saying "God will not mind"....
As Apostle James goes on to say in James 2 you break one of the laws you break them all...and Apostle John says by this we know we are children of God when we keep His commandments and they are not burdensome...

And remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan satanic origins.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Yes, but this, James is identifying the ten commandments..do you not know that?

Yes I do know that, but look at the context of his entire epistle. Is he talking about the 10 commandments, or simply mention them while talking about the law of Christ?

What he is talking about the law of Christ - the royal law - to love one another, to take care of orphans and widows, to refrain from looking down on your brothers and sisters that are poor, and so on. And the point I think he is making, and that makes sense, is this: just as one breach of the commandments in the old covenant renders you a lawbreaker, one breach - for example discriminating against your brother - makes you a lawbreaker of the law of Christ.

If you look at the verse in question you will notice that James make no claim whatsoever that we are under the 10 commandments. He simply makes a point about being a lawbreaker, and then follows up directly by speaking about the "law that gives freedom" and how "mercy triumphs over judgement". The 10 commandments were never described in that way. In fact the complete opposite is true!

Just as Jesus said Love God, and love your neighbour..He is identifying the Ten commandments, which God Himself wrote on the stone tablets as a sign of permanency..this is very elementary, and not open to misinterpretation, unless of course one wants to try and find ways to NOT follow God's Holy ten commandments, which of course is from satan, as he fooled Eve in the garden by saying "God will not mind"....

Jesus did no such thing. Again you are adding the word "permanency" where no such word can be found in the NT to describe the 10 commandments. Scripture, again, does the opposite. And no one is saying that "God will not mind" if we break any of his commandments. The fact that God grants us grace is not the same thing as saying that he doesn't mind if we sin. But as I pointed out before, putting oneself under the 10 commandments does not prevent sin. Do you want me to prove it with scripture? Just let me know.

And remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan satanic origins.

Why do you just keep repeating something that has already been refuted?

And why do you ignore my challenge?

If you think the rules I layed out are too strict, or if they are incorrect, then just let me know and we can discuss them.

Can you acknowledge the fact that you have read this and are willing to agree or disagree to it?

Or is there some reason why you are avoiding this?

 

[heretoeternity]

Read your Bible again Upsi....written in stone IS permanency...
But seeing you do not believe in the Ten Commandments, God's law, then I suppose murder, theft, following other gods is okay with you right? I guess you support satanic politicians when they remove the Ten commandments from public buildings etc right? You would not want to offend anyone would you?
That attitude explains completely why the so called christian nation of the USA and all western countries have become cesspools of moral decay..all with the help of some "christians"

Remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan/satanic origin.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Read your Bible again Upsi....written in stone IS permanency...

Book... chapter... verse?

But seeing you do not believe in the Ten Commandments, God's law, then I suppose murder, theft, following other gods is okay with you right?

Wrong! You are confusing morality with law. The law does not prevent any of those things.

"I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments." (Col 2:4)

Why do you just keep repeating something that has already been refuted?

And why do you ignore my challenge?

If you think the rules I layed out are too strict, or if they are incorrect, then just let me know and we can discuss them.

Can you acknowledge the fact that you have read this and are willing to agree or disagree to it?

Or is there some reason why you are avoiding this?

 

[JesusIsFaithful]

Remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan/satanic origin.

A music video for you, brother. May Jesus set you free in the Good News.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBcqria2wmg

 

[StanJ]

Read your Bible again Upsi....written in stone IS permanency...
But seeing you do not believe in the Ten Commandments, God's law, then I suppose murder, theft, following other gods is okay with you right? I guess you support satanic politicians when they remove the Ten commandments from public buildings etc right? You would not want to offend anyone would you?
That attitude explains completely why the so called christian nation of the USA and all western countries have become cesspools of moral decay..all with the help of some "christians"

Remember always, salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan/satanic origin.

Apparently not seeing as that OT/OC is now obsolete.

I also believe in the 10 commandments and I also believe that they find fulfillment in the law of love which Jesus brought in the NC.

The whole world is in sin hereto, not just America and western countries.

Salvation is IN Jesus. He is our salvation AND our righteousness.

There is NOTHING wrong with celebrating the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus. He Himself told His disciples to remember Him.

 

[Raeneske]

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Found in heaven, was not the law of Moses, but the Ten Commandments (the testimony). What other clear, and forceful illustrations must be given that the law of God, the Ten Commandments, is to be obeyed?

The book of the law, which the Bible calls the Law of Moses, was not in the ark, but the tables of the covenant (tables of testimony) were contained in God's Ark within heaven (not just on earth). Our government here on earth has laws that must be obeyed, and yet God's law is abolished because we have escaped the punishment for sin? This is not the Gospel message. It is not freedom from law, but freedom from sin. And sin is the transgression of the law. We are freed from the slavery of sin, causing us to break God's law. And it is Christ that frees us from sin, not the law written upon the tables of stone -- which very law was written on our hearts.

John 8:34-36 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. 35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. 36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

2 Corinthians 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Angels of heaven keep God's law.

Psalms 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

And before Paul again is taken out of context, to say that we are freed from the law, realize the conclusion of his argument about the law.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

He, Paul, served God's law (the one he previously declared to be dead to earlier in the chapter), because we are not freed from obedience that the law demands, but freed from servitude to sin. We are dead to the law, it is self that dies, not the law. Self has died, and Christ liveth in us. And if Christ is alive in us, then we will do as Christ has done. He has not broken the commandments, but has kept and obeyed them. Therefore, the followers of Christ will live as Christ lived, in perfect obedience to the 10 Commandments.

It is not the Book of the law of Moses that angels observe, but the commandments found in Heaven. It is not the book of the law of Moses that Paul declared to be dead to (in that it requires our death, yet Christ died for us), but the 10 Commandments which Paul still observed. It is not the Book of the law which God wrote upon our hearts, but that which He wrote upon tables of stone, and then wrote upon the tables of our hearts to be obeyed.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Found in heaven, was not the law of Moses, but the Ten Commandments (the testimony). What other clear, and forceful illustrations must be given that the law of God, the Ten Commandments, is to be obeyed?

The book of the law, which the Bible calls the Law of Moses, was not in the ark, but the tables of the covenant (tables of testimony) were contained in God's Ark within heaven (not just on earth). Our government here on earth has laws that must be obeyed, and yet God's law is abolished because we have escaped the punishment for sin? This is not the Gospel message. It is not freedom from law, but freedom from sin. And sin is the transgression of the law. We are freed from the slavery of sin, causing us to break God's law. And it is Christ that frees us from sin, not the law written upon the tables of stone -- which very law was written on our hearts.

Well since "God's sanctuary in heaven" (Revelation 11:19) was by no means the copy of the sanctuary (Hebrews 8:5), but the "TRUE tabernacle set up by the Lord" (Hebrews 8:2), then what makes you think that the "coventant" that Revelation 11:19 refers to is the same convenant that scripture describes as "inferior" (Hebrews 8:6)?

The covenant that is closest to God's heart is the new superior covenant, not the old inferior one!

Why do you assume that God, on the one hand, would have a sanctuary in heaven that clearly is not the OT sanctuary, but then, for some strange reason, have an ark there that belonged to the old covenant, rather than the new?

The law was only a SHADOW of the good things that were coming--NOT the realities themselves. (Hebrews 10:1)

Angels of heaven keep God's law.

Well some of them do... some of them didn't... but again, if you can demonstrate that angels were under the Mosaic law, rather than the law of Christ, without breaking the rules I put forth, then please do so. If not explain why you can't.

I don't seem to get ANY proponent of SDA theology to do so...

He, Paul, served God's law

That's not what Romans 7:25 says. You could just as easily say that "He, Paul, served the law of sin", because that is exactly what the verse says. So don't cherry pick the words that you think support your theology. You need to do what I have challenged you several times to do - harmonize the ENTIRE message that Paul layed down for the church.

Paul clearly admitted that he wanted to serve the law, but just like the rest of us, could not. And his solution to this was not to "give it your best shot", but rather to live by the spirit. The letter kills, but the spirit gives life.

 

[heretoeternity]

UpsD..you are confused again...the law that was only a shadow of things to come..is..is ...is...if you read the entire chapter..is....THE LAW OF MOSES...the 613 sacrificial, food, feast, festival cleanliness laws...word of advice..quit taking words out of context..and

Remember always salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

 

[UppsalaDragby]

UpsD..you are confused again...the law that was only a shadow of things to come..is..is ...is...if you read the entire chapter..is....THE LAW OF MOSES...the 613 sacrificial, food, feast, festival cleanliness laws...word of advice..quit taking words out of context..and

Remember always salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin.

And, and, and... where can you defend that doctrine without going beyond what is written? Scripture does not make the distinctions that you so eagerly want it to make. If you disagree then go through ALL the references to the law that Paul gives us and show us how they all refer to what YOU call "613 sacrificial, food, feast, festival cleanliness laws".

And why are you not addressing the points that I have made?

Are you able to meed the challenges I have made or can you not?????

I have asked yout this time and time again!

Where is your response?

 

[StanJ]

Hebrews 8 should straighten out anyone who doesn't understand the whole purpose of the NC, but if it doesn't that means the Holy Spirit is not getting through to that person and I doubt very much any man would be able to if the Holy Spirit can't.

The OC along with it's Mosaic and written laws IS now obsolete.

 

[heretoeternity]

The laws God wrote himself on the stone tablets are never obsolete..as Jesus said in Matthew 5 heaven and earth will pass away but nothing will change in God's law until all is fulfilled...obviously referring to His return, as heaven and earth are still here, and we have not reached the "fulfillment"...
Acts 15 does away with the law of Moses except for the four points mentioned....too bad satan has blinded you so you are unable to make the distinction...and
Remember always, Salvation is through the Son of God, His grace and commandments, and NOT the sungod/satan and his days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origin...