Are the trumpets and vials running in parallel like some insist?

[WPM]

Yes.


I don't know. But it has to be after the group of the first four trumpet plagues.

If you note that in Revelation 8 are the first four trumpet plagues. Think of those as a group. Then, in Revelation 8 it mentions the 3 woes trumpets.... treat those as independents.

Separately, later in Revelation 16 are the seven vial plagues. Think of those as a group.

So, without showing a chart....

In the days of the voice of 7th trumpet angel - Satan will be cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left.
Roughly 3 1/2 years. (everything fits within that 3 1/2 years.)

First 2 1/2 years (of the 3 1/2 years) - the group of trumpets 1-4 will take place, in order. Revelation 8

Then in...

Last 1 year (of the 3 1/2 years) - the group of vials of God's wrath 1-7 will take place, in order. Revelation 16.

Last 1 year (of the 3 1/2 years) - trumpet 5, woe #1, will take place. The flesh tormenting locust. Revelation 9

last 1 year (of the 3 1/2 years) - trumpet 6, woe # 2, will take place near the end. One third of mankind killed by the huge army. Rev 9.


-----------------------------------------------------------
So all in all - with the exception of the 7th trumpet, 3rd woe timeframe which everything fits into - we have the trumpets and vials presented in three chapters, i.e 8, 9, 16. Think of the trumpets as a group (chapter 8). Think of the vials as a group (chapter 16).

The group of vials come after group of trumpets. The vial plagues intensify the plagues of the trumpet plagues.

When are you going to apologize for your false accusations? Do you even have any conviction?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes.

Yes, you have the 7th trumpet sounding even before the 5th trumpet. I hope you don't expect to be taken seriously with this kind of nonsense. You are clearly just making scripture say what you want it to say. You make the numbering of the trumpets completely pointless.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

When are you going to apologize for your false accusations? Do you even have any conviction?

I doubt that he does. Look at how he treats scripture so dishonestly. He is lacking a conscience.

And he probably still thinks we're the same person and that I'm just talking to myself right now. LOL.

 

[Douggg]

When are you going to apologize for your false accusations? Do you even have any conviction?

I questioned if you and Spiritual Israelite are the same person. You never did say what site you and Spiritual Israelite were aquainted with each other before joining this site.

 

[WPM]

I questionedif you and Spiritual Israelite are the same person. You never did say what site you and Spiritual Israelite were aquainted with each other before joining this site.

When are you going to apologize for your false accusations? Do you even have any conviction?

 

[WPM]

I doubt that he does. Look at how he treats scripture so dishonestly. He is lacking a conscience.

And he probably still thinks we're the same person and that I'm just talking to myself right now. LOL.

Totally agree. His mask has fallen. He is like the rest of his online Pretrib brethren here.

 

[Douggg]

When are you going to apologize for your false accusations? Do you even have any conviction?

I am discussing whether or not the trumpet plagues and vials of God's wrath plagues take place parallel to one another or not.

Topic of the thread is "Are the trumpets and vials running in parallel like some insist?"

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I am discussing whether or not the trumpet plagues and vials of God's wrath plagues take place parallel to one another or not.

Topic of the thread is "Are the trumpets and vials running in parallel like some insist?"

So, your answer to his question is never. You do realize that no one can take you seriously at all, if they ever did, after your false, embarrassing and ridiculous accusation that WPM and I are the same person, right? Anyone who can't discern that we are different people probably can't discern anything at all, including scripture. Let those of us who actually have discernment show others what scripture teaches.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I questioned if you and Spiritual Israelite are the same person. You never did say what site you and Spiritual Israelite were aquainted with each other before joining this site.

I told you what site it was. Did you not see that? Why would you even question if we are the same person? I've never seen a more ridiculous accusation in my life. Can you not see the difference between our writing styles? I can somewhat understand how you have trouble understanding how any two people can agree in their end times doctrine when no one agrees with yours, but it does happen. There are a few others, like jeffweeder, rwb and covenantee, who agree with us on a vast majority of end times doctrine as well. Am I all those people, too? What does it say about you when you can't even tell the difference between two people? How can anyone trust that you know anything at all when that's the case?

 

[WPM]

I am discussing whether or not the trumpet plagues and vials of God's wrath plagues take place parallel to one another or not.

Topic of the thread is "Are the trumpets and vials running in parallel like some insist?"

You have me at false accusations against two of the brethren on this thread. When are you going to apologize for your lies?

 

[Douggg]

You have me at false accusations against two of the brethren on this thread. When are you going to apologize for your lies?

You are twisting my words. Stop. Identify the site and forum which you and Spiritual Israelite were acquainted with each other before joining this site and forum.

 

[Douggg]

The trumpet plagues and the viles of God's wrath plagues all fit within the third woe, time, times, half time that Satan will have left when he is cast down to earth.

Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Different from woe one and woe two - which are woes to the inhbabiters of the earth - the third woe is both to the ihabiters of the earth and of the sea.

The reason being, during the time, times, half time, one of the vials of God's wrath, vial two - every living soul in the sea will die.

Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.

 

[WPM]

You are twisting my words. Stop.

No i am not!

Identify the site and forum which you and Spiritual Israelite were acquainted with each other before joining this site and forum.

No!

 

[WPM]

You are twisting my words. Stop. Identify the site and forum which you and Spiritual Israelite were acquainted with each other before joining this site and forum.

Really? Here are your false accusations! Stop lying. Here is your nonsense! Here is your false deduction.

Let's see, you and Spiritual Israelite joined the forum about a month apart. Coincidence ?

He has 3,993 thumbs up likes. And you have 3,402. Coincidence ?

And I have never seen you and Spiritual Israelite disagree on anything.

So I guess you are telling us that you and Spiritual Israelite are the same person. As you and him are the only two persons who have ever told me that.

You are digging a hole and you are going to fall into it.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Meaning trumpet 1 and vial 1 are the same event. Trumpet 2 and vial 2 are the same event. So on and so on.

Let's start with these 2 verses.

Revelation 8:8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

Revelation 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.


If these are the same event, when does the 2nd angel quit blowing his trumpet and then start pouring out his vial?

Revelation 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets

Where does it say in the text that to them were also given 7 vials? After all, vials have to be given to them first before they can pour them out. Obviously.

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Where does it say in the text that they are also to go out and blow their trumpets?

Between these trumpets and vials, how many angels should we assume it is involving? 7 or 14?

Revelation 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.


Notice something here. This is obviously meaning the time pertaining to not worshiping the beast and then being martyred for not worshiping it, that era of time has been fulfilled and is now in the past. IOW, there are no more martyrs ever again at this point in time. And guess what? Every single vial, all 7 of them, are poured out after Revelation 15:2 is meaning, not before Revelation 15:2 is meaning.

Let's now to go to Revelation 11, which is involving the 6th trumpet.

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Does it look like Revelation 15:2 has already been fulfilled at this point, meaning as of the 6th trumpet, that there are no more martyrs? Keeping in mind that none of vials of wrath are poured out until there is first no more martyrs. IOW, during the vials of wrath and even after the vials of wrath, there is not one single martyr during any of that.

Yet, some would have us believe that the trumpets and vials are running in parallel when the 6th trumpet alone contradicts that since saints are still being martyred, where as, as of Revelation 15:2 no saints are being martyred anymore, and that none of the vials of wrath are being poured out before Revelation 15:2 is meaning. They are being poured out after Revelation 15:2 is meaning. Keeping in mind, Revelation 15:2 is undeniably meaning the martyring of saints have been fulfilled, no saint will ever be martyred again at this point in time.


Revelation 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


IOW, as of Revelation 15:2, it equals this--their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled--that this has been fulfilled. Then the vials start getting poured out after that.

How can anyone dispute any of this and still insist the trumpets and vials are running in parallel?

My view is, it is during the 7th trumpet when any of the vials are being poured out. None of the vials of wrath precede the 7th trumpet. Which then means that the time of the 7th trumpet couldn't possibly involve a single 24 hour day or less, since there is no way 7 vials of wrath can fit a single 24 hour period. Nor can the 7th trumpet be involving the 42 month reign of the beast like some interpreters insist. And Revelation 15:2, for one, proves it if one was able to follow what I argued throughout, above.

In my view, the Trumpets are judgments and warnings to Israel; the Vials are judgments against those who attacked Israel.

 

[Douggg]

No!

Why not ? We can go there to that site you were previously aquainted with each other and see that you and Spiritual Israelite are two different persons.

 

[Douggg]

Really? Here are your false accusations! Stop lying. Here is your nonsense! Here is your false deduction.

You are digging a hole and you are going to fall into it.

Those are not an accusation but questioning.

 

[Rockerduck]

Jesus is coming soon. Better be ready.

 

[WPM]

Those are not an accusation but questioning.

Lies.

 

[WPM]

Why not ? We can go there to that site you were previously aquainted with each other and see that you and Spiritual Israelite are two different persons.

I am not feeding into your paranoia. You need to repent.