Are there any Holy Ghost Tongue Talkers in here?

[JayP]

The manifestation of the Holy Spirit may have noticeably alighted on Jesus in the form of a dove but he was not filled with the Spirit as He IS God.
Jesus did not need to speak in tongues because His spirit was God and in perfect harmony with God.
We may be predestined to be conformed to the image of God's Son once we confess Him as our savior, but that doesn't mean what He went through or did images what will happen to us.

Luke 4:1 : "And Jesus full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness."

Acts 10:38 : "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit"

Jesus also says him self in Matthew 12v28 "But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." when answering a question about in who's name he casts demons out of people

Basically the Bible tells me yes Jesus was God, but also he was fully man and so on that basis needed the Spirit to complete the work set out for him. He was able to do miracles, heal the sick, teach with wisdom and knowledge, and organise 12 (largely hapless) followers, he fed people, he showed mercy and so much more - but all with the power of The Spirit!

I agree Jesus did not need to speak in tongues ergo neither do I

 

[StanJ]

Luke 4:1 : "And Jesus full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness."

Acts 10:38 : "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit"

Jesus also says him self in Matthew 12v28 "But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." when answering a question about in who's name he casts demons out of people

Basically the Bible tells me yes Jesus was God, but also he was fully man and so on that basis needed the Spirit to complete the work set out for him. He was able to do miracles, heal the sick, teach with wisdom and knowledge, and organise 12 (largely hapless) followers, he fed people, he showed mercy and so much more - but all with the power of The Spirit!

I agree Jesus did not need to speak in tongues ergo neither do I

In context there is nothing wrong with these verses, nor do they contradict other scriptures, so I'm not sure why you are quoting them.
Notice Luke 4 is before Luke 9, which is the verse you first alluded to. Jesus was born GOD incarnate. He didn't need more as He was all of God.
Jesus didn't need to be filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues because His spirit was God, your's is not and you are not God, so yes you need the Holy Spirit.
Col 1:19 and 2:9

 

[JayP]

In context there is nothing wrong with these verses, nor do they contradict other scriptures, so I'm not sure why you are quoting them.
Notice Luke 4 is before Luke 9, which is the verse you first alluded to. Jesus was born GOD incarnate. He didn't need more as He was all of God.
Jesus didn't need to be filled with the Holy Spirit and speak in tongues because His spirit was God, your's is not and you are not God, so yes you need the Holy Spirit.
Col 1:19 and 2:9

Jesus was born God, but he was also born man - if the bible says the spirit filled Christ then I'm gonna believe that over you.

I need the holy spirit, but I don't have to speak in tongues to prove that I have that Spirit.

 

[Mr.Bride]

For the record, a person filled with the devil can speak in tongues.

That is all...

 

[shturt678]

Luke 4:1 : "And Jesus full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness."

Acts 10:38 : "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit"

Jesus also says him self in Matthew 12v28 "But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." when answering a question about in who's name he casts demons out of people

Basically the Bible tells me yes Jesus was God, but also he was fully man and so on that basis needed the Spirit to complete the work set out for him. He was able to do miracles, heal the sick, teach with wisdom and knowledge, and organise 12 (largely hapless) followers, he fed people, he showed mercy and so much more - but all with the power of The Spirit!

I agree Jesus did not need to speak in tongues ergo neither do I

Thank you folks for caring!

I thought that was well put together only adding that all three Persons cooperate in our redemption.

Old Jack's take on it

 

[StanJ]

For the record, a person filled with the devil can speak in tongues.

That is all...

Hmmmmm...
Well I guess it could be but not the same tongues we speak when filled with the Holy Spirit. Maybe the tongues of angles...don't know.

Jesus was born God, but he was also born man - if the bible says the spirit filled Christ then I'm gonna believe that over you.

I need the holy spirit, but I don't have to speak in tongues to prove that I have that Spirit.

It's not about ME JayP, it's about God and His word, IN CONTEXT. if you refuse to accept what Paul says in Col 1 and 2 about Jesus being FULLY God then I can't really say anything more to you.

 

[JayP]

It's not about ME JayP, it's about God and His word, IN CONTEXT. if you refuse to accept what Paul says in Col 1 and 2 about Jesus being FULLY God then I can't really say anything more to you.

I clearly said I agree that he was Fully God, it is you that is refusing to accept that he was equally Fully Human! If he wasn't human then the sacrifice doesn't work. You see way back in Genesis God tells Satan that a human Son, a decendent of Eve would be bitten by the serpent but that same decendent would crush his head - that is Jesus he was bitten by death but crushed death by rising again. He won the war! That man was God, but he was also Human!
"The Word became flesh a dwelt among us"!

He walked, talked, ate, drank, breathed, was tempted, cried, prayed, rejoiced and died! Those are things humans do! You see my bible in Isaiah tells me that God "does not grow tired and weary" - if Jesus grew tired (ie he was so tired he slept through a storm on the boat, woke up and then told the storm to shut up) then he must be human!

In the gospel, after Jesus stayed behind in the temple after the feast, Luke says that Jesus "grew in wisdom and stature", why would God need to grow in wisdom? God is wisdom! (hey it's another gift of the spirit that Jesus was blessed with)

But here's a biggie, Jesus, The Father and the Holy Spirit are all God, but are all different entities. They have different roles and different minds you see Jesus said (when talking about the final days)
"Concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

But this is really the verse I want you to take away remember and then try and say that Jesus was ONLY God -

1 Tim 2:5 "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,"

I don't mind if you wanna disagree with me (I'm happy for people to disagree, as long as they discuss in an attitude of love), but please don't disagree with the Word of God

JayP, on 01 Jul 2014 - 7:41 PM, said:

Luke 4:1 : "And Jesus full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the wilderness."

Acts 10:38 : "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit"

Jesus also says him self in Matthew 12v28 "But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." when answering a question about in who's name he casts demons out of people

Basically the Bible tells me yes Jesus was God, but also he was fully man and so on that basis needed the Spirit to complete the work set out for him. He was able to do miracles, heal the sick, teach with wisdom and knowledge, and organise 12 (largely hapless) followers, he fed people, he showed mercy and so much more - but all with the power of The Spirit!

I agree Jesus did not need to speak in tongues ergo neither do I

Thank you folks for caring!

I thought that was well put together only adding that all three Persons cooperate in our redemption.

Old Jack's take on it

I thought that went without saying, without Jesus there is no salvation - as there is no Sacrifice, without the Spirit there is no revelation, and with out the Father there is no thing.

 

[StanJ]

I clearly said I agree that he was Fully God, it is you that is refusing to accept that he was equally Fully Human! If he wasn't human then the sacrifice doesn't work. You see way back in Genesis God tells Satan that a human Son, a decendent of Eve would be bitten by the serpent but that same decendent would crush his head - that is Jesus he was bitten by death but crushed death by rising again. He won the war! That man was God, but he was also Human!
"The Word became flesh a dwelt among us"!

He walked, talked, ate, drank, breathed, was tempted, cried, prayed, rejoiced and died! Those are things humans do! You see my bible in Isaiah tells me that God "does not grow tired and weary" - if Jesus grew tired (ie he was so tired he slept through a storm on the boat, woke up and then told the storm to shut up) then he must be human!

In the gospel, after Jesus stayed behind in the temple after the feast, Luke says that Jesus "grew in wisdom and stature", why would God need to grow in wisdom? God is wisdom! (hey it's another gift of the spirit that Jesus was blessed with)

But here's a biggie, Jesus, The Father and the Holy Spirit are all God, but are all different entities. They have different roles and different minds you see Jesus said (when talking about the final days)
"Concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

But this is really the verse I want you to take away remember and then try and say that Jesus was ONLY God -

1 Tim 2:5 "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,"

I don't mind if you wanna disagree with me (I'm happy for people to disagree, as long as they discuss in an attitude of love), but please don't disagree with the Word of God


I thought that went without saying, without Jesus there is no salvation - as there is no Sacrifice, without the Spirit there is no revelation, and with out the Father there is no thing.

He wasn't FULLY human, He was in ALL ways like us but NOT us. He didn't sin. Full humans sin. His nature was hypostatic. God and man. We are not like that.
Jesus has many names and roles, I'm not sure where you get Only God from what I said but as God is ALL things, how is that a problem? Yes He is ALSO our mediator, brother, co-heir, savior, confessor. These things and EVERYTHING else about Him, make Him God. He didn't need more of Himself to be Himself, He was FULLY God. When something is FULL, perfect and complete, nothing needs to be added.

 

[JayP]

I'm sorry but if you do not believe that Christ was fully human then you cannot believe that his death can sanctify you. It had to be a human that died as a sacrifice for humanity.

Full humans (to use your wording) we're not created to sin, they became sinful. Jesus was the perfect human (the Second Adam).

And actually full things can be filled further (that's what causes an out pouring). You say you've been filled with the spirit - was that a complete filling? Or was God's work not enough for you? But yet the Bible still says we should continue to be filled.

 

[StanJ]

I'm sorry but if you do not believe that Christ was fully human then you cannot believe that his death can sanctify you. It had to be a human that died as a sacrifice for humanity.

Full humans (to use your wording) we're not created to sin, they became sinful. Jesus was the perfect human (the Second Adam).

And actually full things can be filled further (that's what causes an out pouring). You say you've been filled with the spirit - was that a complete filling? Or was God's work not enough for you? But yet the Bible still says we should continue to be filled.

Now you're just equivocating.... it's not my perception of who Jesus is that is the problem, it's your perception of the baptism He brought that doesn't line up with scripture. To identify it as a reality but say it's not something you need is just not believing what the Bible says nor what Jesus instructed. That is your choice, but you won't find support for it IN properly exegeted scripture.

 

[brakelite]

Stan, JP is right.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Jewsus was certainly fully God, but He did not use His Godly attributes to walk this life. Jesus walked in such a way He desires us to walk....in faith. As He walked in faith and trust in His Father and in His word, so also ought we to walk in faith and trust in Jesus and His word. Jesus laid aside all His Godly attributes, except those that relate to His character. God's love, God's loyalty, God's mercy, God's grace; God's compassion, kindness, patience, gentlemness, wisdom, understanding, etc...all things that relate to character, these things Jesus displayed. But the power, the glory, and omnipotence, the omnipresence,the omniscience of God, these trhings Jesus did not employ, else He could not be our example.

No-one is sayimng the thebaptism in the Holy Spirit isn't neccesary, . Jesus needed the Holy Spirit. We need the Holy Spirit.Jesus needed to pray and worship in Spirit and truth. We also. But Stan, where Idisagree with you is the belief that tongues is an indicator of Baptism in the Holy Spirit. It can be, but not everyone needs to speak in tongues. Just as not everyone is called to prophecy. Me personally...I ave plenty to say to God in my own language and understanding.And He speaks to me in the same language. God is a God of revelaion, not a God who seeks to keep mysteries, except for those things it would not be for our good to know. Speaking in a "mysterious prayer language" is something the scriptures are silent on) .

 

[StanJ]

Stan, JP is right.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

Jewsus was certainly fully God, but He did not use His Godly attributes to walk this life. Jesus walked in such a way He desires us to walk....in faith. As He walked in faith and trust in His Father and in His word, so also ought we to walk in faith and trust in Jesus and His word. Jesus laid aside all His Godly attributes, except those that relate to His character. God's love, God's loyalty, God's mercy, God's grace; God's compassion, kindness, patience, gentlemness, wisdom, understanding, etc...all things that relate to character, these things Jesus displayed. But the power, the glory, and omnipotence, the omnipresence,the omniscience of God, these trhings Jesus did not employ, else He could not be our example.

No sorry he isn't and neither are you, and one verse does not make it so.

Jesus Himself said "ALL power is given me". He also knew when people were lying top Him and what was in their thoughts. This is much more than a fully human can do. Jesus submitted to the Father yes, but that submission was based on what He knew as God. That Jesus limited what He could do was evident in how He responded to the devil in the desert, but walking on water was not a normal human thing to do, and John 20:30-31 makes this clear.

 

[brakelite]

No sorry he isn't and neither are you, and one verse does not make it so.

Oh? How many times does God have to say something then Stan in order for it to become true? Twice? Three times? As for me, if Jesus says that He didn't do the works but His Father did them through Him, including walking on water, feeding 5 thousand odd with a couple of loaves of bread, healing, raising the dead, making wine out of water, then to my way of thinking once is quite sufficient thanks. Oh, and BTW, I am in a hurry so can't spend the time searching, but that isn't the only verse, maybe others are aware of them and can post...I may be able to do so later.

 

[StanJ]

Oh? How many times does God have to say something then Stan in order for it to become true? Twice? Three times? As for me, if Jesus says that He didn't do the works but His Father did them through Him, including walking on water, feeding 5 thousand odd with a couple of loaves of bread, healing, raising the dead, making wine out of water, then to my way of thinking once is quite sufficient thanks. Oh, and BTW, I am in a hurry so can't spend the time searching, but that isn't the only verse, maybe others are aware of them and can post...I may be able to do so later.

I actually gave you more, but I see you want to equivocate on this one issue. Are you thereby suggesting that Jesus wasn't God, or that He isn't part of the Trinity? I didn't say John 14:10 was wrong, I said you and JP are. I suggest you study up on the word hypostasis. Heb 1:3
Jesus moved around in his hypostatic nature as easily as we do between our carnal and spiritual natures. If He had ALL power, that included ALL of God the Father's power. Matt 28:18

 

[shturt678]

I clearly said I agree that he was Fully God, it is you that is refusing to accept that he was equally Fully Human! If he wasn't human then the sacrifice doesn't work. You see way back in Genesis God tells Satan that a human Son, a decendent of Eve would be bitten by the serpent but that same decendent would crush his head - that is Jesus he was bitten by death but crushed death by rising again. He won the war! That man was God, but he was also Human!
"The Word became flesh a dwelt among us"!

He walked, talked, ate, drank, breathed, was tempted, cried, prayed, rejoiced and died! Those are things humans do! You see my bible in Isaiah tells me that God "does not grow tired and weary" - if Jesus grew tired (ie he was so tired he slept through a storm on the boat, woke up and then told the storm to shut up) then he must be human!

In the gospel, after Jesus stayed behind in the temple after the feast, Luke says that Jesus "grew in wisdom and stature", why would God need to grow in wisdom? God is wisdom! (hey it's another gift of the spirit that Jesus was blessed with)

But here's a biggie, Jesus, The Father and the Holy Spirit are all God, but are all different entities. They have different roles and different minds you see Jesus said (when talking about the final days)
"Concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

But this is really the verse I want you to take away remember and then try and say that Jesus was ONLY God -

1 Tim 2:5 "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,"

I don't mind if you wanna disagree with me (I'm happy for people to disagree, as long as they discuss in an attitude of love), but please don't disagree with the Word of God


I thought that went without saying, without Jesus there is no salvation - as there is no Sacrifice, without the Spirit there is no revelation, and with out the Father there is no thing.

Thank you for caring again!

Appalling, it also goes without saying that there's "another Jesus" out there thus we need to make sure it goes with saying that we have the valid Jesus aboard in light of IICor.11:4.

Old Jack checking out who is at the helm, and making sure I have not a "different Spirit" also?

 

[lforrest]

Hebrews 4:15 shows us that Jesus is able to empathize with us, I believe it is because he is fully man.

I think that empathy is also what 1 Tim 2:5 is pointing towards.

 

[JayP]

Stan, time and time again I have quoted the bible verses that define my beliefs, your only response has been "you're wrong". With no Biblical basis to back up you thoughts. So once again I'm going to point out that I am gonna trust what Jesus said and what the Spirit has revealed to me over what you are saying.

If you genuinely believe that unless you have spoken in tongues you aren't saved then I genuinely feel sorry for you and, more so, for those that you are in fellowship with.

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh people...............I received the Holy Ghost.............and all I've been trying to say is, it's wonderful........but hey...if ya don't want it.............don't ask for it. Simple.......but it is real............threw me for a loop for sure.
But again.....i want everything God has for me.....Thanks Lord.

Every baptized Christian receives the Holy Ghost, whether they speak in tongues or not. Again you demonstrate a myopic understanding of this topic.

 

[shturt678]

Hebrews 4:15 shows us that Jesus is able to empathize with us, I believe it is because he is fully man.

I think that empathy is also what 1 Tim 2:5 is pointing towards.

Always like seeing you bringing passages aboard, ie, adds teeth to your response - good job!

Responding, mostly due to having appreciated Heb.4:15 especially noting the "except for sin" part...hit a sore spot years ago when having a difficult time with what one would consider small sins, yet sin is sin. Our Lord took care of it, however when I see pious Christians acting out their "1" hour on Sunday (use to be a whole "1.5" hours), then embrace the world during the week looking for sympathy from our Lord due to things in a worldly way not working out so well, then I have to question regarding our High Priest sympathizing with worldly Christians.

Old Jack speaking hid mind when he should be silent listening to our Lord.

Not picking on you my brother, in fact the opposite.

 

[StanJ]

Stan, time and time again I have quoted the bible verses that define my beliefs, your only response has been "you're wrong". With no Biblical basis to back up you thoughts. So once again I'm going to point out that I am gonna trust what Jesus said and what the Spirit has revealed to me over what you are saying.

If you genuinely believe that unless you have spoken in tongues you aren't saved then I genuinely feel sorry for you and, more so, for those that you are in fellowship with.

My memory is not very good for short term stuff, but IF you did, I responded to them.

As I have NEVER stated this position, you obviously haven't been paying attention or are deliberately prevaricating about what I have been saying.

Every baptized Christian receives the Holy Ghost, whether they speak in tongues or not. Again you demonstrate a myopic understanding of this topic.

You'll have to support that POV with scripture, and as I know you cannot then you are wrong.