As I have already explained in post #31, apostles today are different than the original 12. They are sent out from the Church and do not add to the Scriptures. There have been many apostles in our time but you don't normally see them on TV.
ARE THERE STILL PROPHETS AND APOSTLES?
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Yes indeed, there may even be some here on this board but then they wouldn't want any recognition.
Exactly why would I not want acceptance, knowing all that accepted me receives a prophets reward? If you are my friends why would I desire to withhold this gift? Recognition as some sort of celebrity is not my desire. period. Who among you should be allowed to use denial withou proof or evidence to smear the name of one of God's prophets??? For so long there have been false prophets... but give them enough rope and they will hang themselves, but why should you allow them to get you to deny a true prophet? Yes, I am one of the Two Witnesses... now you can follow all others before you that have denied God"s true prophets with only denial as a tool. But that in no way changes who I am it only changes an eternal Gift God has for you.
ARNIE if you read this.. there is an email message i sent you... go to the top of the page and click on the envelope. please let me know if you read it... or if you intend on not responding so i know where i stand.
Of course since I told my identity...i could be deleted from the forum.
ARNIE if you read this.. there is an email message i sent you... go to the top of the page and click on the envelope. please let me know if you read it... or if you intend on not responding so i know where i stand.
Of course since I told my identity...i could be deleted from the forum.
Imagine that!? A person who has never experienced prophecy claiming the non existence of a prophet. I've never seen the stars, therefore they do not exist... furthermore, sailors no longer need the stars to guide their course, so they serve no purpose and do not exist.
Yet, when the night becomes dark and the pathetic excuse for light (what you call light) fades - when that light which blinded you finally dies... the stars shine brightly.
They were there all along, behind your self imposed veil of blindess, waiting.
Always waiting.
Yet, when the night becomes dark and the pathetic excuse for light (what you call light) fades - when that light which blinded you finally dies... the stars shine brightly.
They were there all along, behind your self imposed veil of blindess, waiting.
Always waiting.
I've never experienced chopping off my left arm but I am reasonably sure I would not like it. But you are saying I can have no valid opinion of that occurrence unless I actually experience it.
So you are suggesting experience trumps scripture?
So you are suggesting experience trumps scripture?
Terry,terry said:
Apostles, such as the ones in the first century are no more on earth. The Bible tells us that Jesus was an Apostle, Heb 3:1. Those apostles were actually made apostles by God's Holy Spirit. The term Apostle means on sent forth. By this interpretation you could have apostles who are sent forth from a congregation, for some special work.
The term prophet is different, it can mean two different things. One is to give new revelation from God. Another act of a prophet is to explain things that might be hard to understand, or to reprove because of the people not acting as they should, to bring out things rather forcefully, that were already written, but not being fulfilled.
The Will of God is Announced By His Prophets and Taught By His Apostles
10/14/05 From God The Father -
A Letter Given to Timothy, For Kathy, and For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear
Kathy, what you ask of Me, and hope is to come of the Word of God spoken through these modern prophets, is indeed true. Timothy is My prophet... His words, My words... The Truth.
If then, what he, Timothy, has written is true, then what of these who have also written their words in their study of My Word in the Bible? Are they untrue and evil?... Some true, but greatly erred, full of good intentions in seeking after The Lord. Others, also true, and even more in error, because of man’s intellect expounded in arrogance, leading to pride, making them rigid. Woe to those with evil intentions, who expound words of truth intermingled with lies... All in all, a leading away... Antichrist! These are the wolves among the flock, in the sheep’s clothing.
Understand Kathy, when I say they are true, I say their heart is true, though they stumble. Man is given understanding of the Truth, so he may come to salvation through Christ. But the knowledge and understanding of that same Truth, in the teaching of men and the pronouncing of God’s will to the multitude, is for My apostles and prophets... For only they who hear the voice of God, through His Spirit, receive knowledge surpassing man’s understanding. Their doctrine is given as a rod, by which all is measured, understood, and corrected, to bring even greater glory to the God of Heaven and earth.
These chosen are the beacons and lights among men,
To lead My people from the dark to The True Light,
Which is Christ Jesus, The Lord and Savior...
He, called Christ and the Spirit,
Is that very same Light shown in the darkness...
And He is the Spirit that moved upon the face of the deep,
And separated the light from the dark.
All who know Him live in the day...
And all, who reject Him, abide in the darkness.
His Day is coming, and is already here,
When He will become The Light of the World...
All encompassing, no darkness found...
Even the sun, the moon and the stars will not be seen,
For only the light of The Lord remains...
The old order of things has passed away...
The New Day, without end, begun. Amen.
10/14/05 From God The Father -
A Letter Given to Timothy, For Kathy, and For All Those Who Have Ears to Hear
Kathy, what you ask of Me, and hope is to come of the Word of God spoken through these modern prophets, is indeed true. Timothy is My prophet... His words, My words... The Truth.
If then, what he, Timothy, has written is true, then what of these who have also written their words in their study of My Word in the Bible? Are they untrue and evil?... Some true, but greatly erred, full of good intentions in seeking after The Lord. Others, also true, and even more in error, because of man’s intellect expounded in arrogance, leading to pride, making them rigid. Woe to those with evil intentions, who expound words of truth intermingled with lies... All in all, a leading away... Antichrist! These are the wolves among the flock, in the sheep’s clothing.
Understand Kathy, when I say they are true, I say their heart is true, though they stumble. Man is given understanding of the Truth, so he may come to salvation through Christ. But the knowledge and understanding of that same Truth, in the teaching of men and the pronouncing of God’s will to the multitude, is for My apostles and prophets... For only they who hear the voice of God, through His Spirit, receive knowledge surpassing man’s understanding. Their doctrine is given as a rod, by which all is measured, understood, and corrected, to bring even greater glory to the God of Heaven and earth.
These chosen are the beacons and lights among men,
To lead My people from the dark to The True Light,
Which is Christ Jesus, The Lord and Savior...
He, called Christ and the Spirit,
Is that very same Light shown in the darkness...
And He is the Spirit that moved upon the face of the deep,
And separated the light from the dark.
All who know Him live in the day...
And all, who reject Him, abide in the darkness.
His Day is coming, and is already here,
When He will become The Light of the World...
All encompassing, no darkness found...
Even the sun, the moon and the stars will not be seen,
For only the light of The Lord remains...
The old order of things has passed away...
The New Day, without end, begun. Amen.
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, BiggAndyy.
Shalom, guys and gals.
The problem is LABELS! We make "apostle" out to be a label that requires a specific definition when really the Scriptures make no such label! The word "apostle" (as mentioned before) comes from the Greek word "apostolos" meaning "away/off-set," referring to one who is "set off" or "set apart" for a mission. We have those kinds of people today; we call them "missionaries!" They are "sent-ones" to other peoples, often in other countries and to other cultures and languages, to share with them the message of God's justification through the Messiah, Yeshua`, or "Jesus Christ."
Yeshua` Himself was a "sent-one" when His Father sent Him to earth for the mission and purpose of justification!
There's a difference between those who are singled out for just any ol' mission and those who were singled out by Yeshua` during His lifetime - His first advent. This is why it was necessary to find a PARTICULAR person to complete the number of 12 to the 12 tribes of Isra'el after Yeshua` left them in His ascension. So, yes, it would be kind of hard to find a person who was "singled out by Yeshua` during His first advent" NOW, don't you think? However, the term itself does NOT convey that all that! It is merely ANYONE who is singled out and "set apart" for a mission to others.
As far as "prophet" goes, there are "foretellers" and "forth-tellers." In either case, a "prophet" is one who is given a message by God who is then to tell that message to others. Sometimes, the message gives information about the future, but other times it is a message to be delivered as a warning - to correct the path upon which the listeners are traveling. Again, we have such people today; they are typically called "preachers." Although preachers seldom give new information about the future, I believe that God is NOT static; He is a DYNAMIC God, constantly aware and acting in the present toward His people. He never changes His position or His holiness, but because people DO change, He must constantly be correcting people to do what is right, what He wants them to do. Therefore, OCCASIONALLY (and by that I mean "very infrequently") He DOES have people predict the future, but this is in isolated and very specific cases. All other prophecy, particularly general prophecies, has already been given and recorded in that document that we now call the "Bible."
As far as "terry" being one of THE two witnesses of Revelation, time will tell, but my gut reaction is "Nyah, probably not." It just doesn't ring true to my spirit in the Spirit.
LOL. That reminds me of the truism that people learn valuable lessons in one of two ways: they can either learn it vicariously through the experiences of others or learn it first hand through their own experiences. In cases of "chopping off one's left arm," that is one lesson I would rather learn vicariously through someone else's experience!BiggAndyy said:
Shalom, guys and gals.
The problem is LABELS! We make "apostle" out to be a label that requires a specific definition when really the Scriptures make no such label! The word "apostle" (as mentioned before) comes from the Greek word "apostolos" meaning "away/off-set," referring to one who is "set off" or "set apart" for a mission. We have those kinds of people today; we call them "missionaries!" They are "sent-ones" to other peoples, often in other countries and to other cultures and languages, to share with them the message of God's justification through the Messiah, Yeshua`, or "Jesus Christ."
Yeshua` Himself was a "sent-one" when His Father sent Him to earth for the mission and purpose of justification!
There's a difference between those who are singled out for just any ol' mission and those who were singled out by Yeshua` during His lifetime - His first advent. This is why it was necessary to find a PARTICULAR person to complete the number of 12 to the 12 tribes of Isra'el after Yeshua` left them in His ascension. So, yes, it would be kind of hard to find a person who was "singled out by Yeshua` during His first advent" NOW, don't you think? However, the term itself does NOT convey that all that! It is merely ANYONE who is singled out and "set apart" for a mission to others.
As far as "prophet" goes, there are "foretellers" and "forth-tellers." In either case, a "prophet" is one who is given a message by God who is then to tell that message to others. Sometimes, the message gives information about the future, but other times it is a message to be delivered as a warning - to correct the path upon which the listeners are traveling. Again, we have such people today; they are typically called "preachers." Although preachers seldom give new information about the future, I believe that God is NOT static; He is a DYNAMIC God, constantly aware and acting in the present toward His people. He never changes His position or His holiness, but because people DO change, He must constantly be correcting people to do what is right, what He wants them to do. Therefore, OCCASIONALLY (and by that I mean "very infrequently") He DOES have people predict the future, but this is in isolated and very specific cases. All other prophecy, particularly general prophecies, has already been given and recorded in that document that we now call the "Bible."
As far as "terry" being one of THE two witnesses of Revelation, time will tell, but my gut reaction is "Nyah, probably not." It just doesn't ring true to my spirit in the Spirit.
Josey wrote: " I have a feeling that some of these folks here wouldnt know a prophet if he came up and bit them on the hiney "
I have not a single tooth, and I don't know what a hiney is, am probably glad i don't.
I have not a single tooth, and I don't know what a hiney is, am probably glad i don't.
Numbers 12:6 – And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
Prophets and Prophetesses in the Bible were individuals who received a call from God to be God’s spokesperson, often connected with some crisis that was about to occur, and then announced God’s message of judgment and/or deliverance to Israel and the nations. Clearly, then, a prophet is an authorized spokesperson for God with a message that originated with God and was communicated through a number of means. When God spoke to these Prophets and Prophetesses, they had no choice but to deliver that word to those to whom God directed it.
But we should all be aware of the false pophets:
Matthew 24:4-5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Prophets and Prophetesses in the Bible were individuals who received a call from God to be God’s spokesperson, often connected with some crisis that was about to occur, and then announced God’s message of judgment and/or deliverance to Israel and the nations. Clearly, then, a prophet is an authorized spokesperson for God with a message that originated with God and was communicated through a number of means. When God spoke to these Prophets and Prophetesses, they had no choice but to deliver that word to those to whom God directed it.
But we should all be aware of the false pophets:
Matthew 24:4-5
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come (The Bible), then that which is in part shall be done away.
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10But when that which is perfect is come (The Bible), then that which is in part shall be done away.
Retrobyter
Well-Known Member
Shalom, jiggyfly.
I can't speak for Eric, but judging from this thread, yeah, knowledge has vanished away!jiggyfly said:
The Apostles were sent out to establish the gospel, they were appointed by Christ and given authority, gifts of healing, revelation, etc. Today, we learn from what they wrote, the word is alive. Those who minister today are not apostles, but are preachers and teachers of the word (scripture).
In the same fashion, the words of the prophets are still alive because we're still learning from them. Prophesying today is teaching and correctly interpreting what the prophets wrote. We don't need new prophets because we've already been told all things. Jesus revealed the end of this age, the millennium, and beyond, so what's left to prophesy about?
That's how I look at it anyway.
In the same fashion, the words of the prophets are still alive because we're still learning from them. Prophesying today is teaching and correctly interpreting what the prophets wrote. We don't need new prophets because we've already been told all things. Jesus revealed the end of this age, the millennium, and beyond, so what's left to prophesy about?
That's how I look at it anyway.
I know that this is somewhat self serving, because I believe that I was called to the office of prophet, but the prophet Amos wrote: Surely the Lord God does nothing,BiggAndyy said:
Unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets. Amos 3:7
So are you suggesting that the Lord no longer works in the world, that some scripture is untrue, or that this verse only applies to the prophets of Israel?
I fully believe that the revelation of God is complete in the person of Jesus Christ, but the role of the prophet has always been the proclamation of God's word and for the purpose of turning people from sin and destruction, Why would that have ended and why would any man preach the word without having the prophetic gift?
Some people believe that 1 Corinthians 13:10 refers to the glorified Christ and the glorified church (we shall be like Him), not to the Bible. I certainly believe that the revelation of God is complete in the person of Jesus Christ, but the book of the revelation itself tells us that prophecy hasn't ended at least until the beheading of God's two last witnesses.Eric E Stahl said:
Big Andy wrote that reply to me so I'll answer.
Nobody is suggesting that God no longer works in the world. I'm suggesting that there is no longer a need for them because all the prophecies have been given and written and the church has been established. We can (I suppose) prophesy about something that has already been prophesied, but that only means that we utilize the gift of the Spirit. If we understand God's prophetic Word enough and have faith that what we believe is true we can prophesy!
An example of this is that I have confidence that there will not be a rapture before tribulation. I've studied it enough in the Greek text to know I can prophesy that there will not be a rapture before tribulation! I can also prophesy that there will never be a one world government or a unified global religion. But actually, to prophesy is more down to earth than that. I could prophesy to you that if you continue doing business with a particular person you're going to get robbed by him.........or something like that.
Prophets were part of a hierarchy of office holders. In the OT for Israel and in the NT (even after John) for the establishment of the Church. As the Church was being established they eventually they were no longer needed and eventually fizzled out. The prophets of that day were very different that the OT prophets and different than even Jesus or John. After the church was established
So this comment....
Nobody is called to the office of prophet any more. Today we have the gifts of the Spirit and are able to prophesy but that's very different than being a prophet.
Nobody is suggesting that God no longer works in the world. I'm suggesting that there is no longer a need for them because all the prophecies have been given and written and the church has been established. We can (I suppose) prophesy about something that has already been prophesied, but that only means that we utilize the gift of the Spirit. If we understand God's prophetic Word enough and have faith that what we believe is true we can prophesy!
An example of this is that I have confidence that there will not be a rapture before tribulation. I've studied it enough in the Greek text to know I can prophesy that there will not be a rapture before tribulation! I can also prophesy that there will never be a one world government or a unified global religion. But actually, to prophesy is more down to earth than that. I could prophesy to you that if you continue doing business with a particular person you're going to get robbed by him.........or something like that.
Prophets were part of a hierarchy of office holders. In the OT for Israel and in the NT (even after John) for the establishment of the Church. As the Church was being established they eventually they were no longer needed and eventually fizzled out. The prophets of that day were very different that the OT prophets and different than even Jesus or John. After the church was established
So this comment....
Is the role of all Christian's, elders, pastors, missionaries, etc. The office of an Old or New Testament Prophet is not the same as one who prophesy's today.
LOL, I see what you mean.Retrobyter said:Shalom, jiggyfly.
I can't speak for Eric, but judging from this thread, yeah, knowledge has vanished away!
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