Are you a chosen one?

[JohnDB]

That's fine, but how would you answer the OP--being chosen in regard to salvation itself?

1 Thessalonians 1:4-5
4For we know, brothers and sisters b loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction.

That's what it means to be called.

Remember the story of the various people who wanted to be disciples/apostles of Jesus? But many of these were told "no" in various ways because of various reasons.
They didn't volunteer or ask because they didn't believe.
It's all those "side issues"...

And let's not forget that one of the most evangelical Apostles wasn't even present during Jesus' ministry tour...he wrote 2/3 of the New Testament...
Paul was not only called but chosen.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

It sounds good but I also hear such stories from Muslims, Buddhists etc.

Muslims and Buddhists are not indwelled by the Holy Spirit! They can become indwelled if they receive Jesus Christ as their Savior.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That's what it means to be called.

Remember the story of the various people who wanted to be disciples/apostles of Jesus? But many of these were told "no" in various ways because of various reasons.
They didn't volunteer or ask because they didn't believe.
It's all those "side issues"...

And let's not forget that one of the most evangelical Apostles wasn't even present during Jesus' ministry tour...he wrote 2/3 of the New Testament...
Paul was not only called but chosen.

I think you're confusing being chosen for salvation and being chosen to fulfill a particular ministerial duty. We all participate in God's grace in salvation equally and without difference. But we do not equally participate in God's grace and calling regarding our gifts. The OP is about our election and being chosen for salvation, not about our being chosen to fulfill a particular office of ministry.

 

[JohnDB]

Muslims and Buddhists are not indwelled by the Holy Spirit! They can become indwelled if they receive Jesus Christ as their Savior.

Then...
Just as a question...

How did king Saul in the Old Testament get to be indwelled with the Holy Spirit?

 

[JohnDB]

I think you're confusing being chosen for salvation and being chosen to fulfill a particular ministerial duty. We all participate in God's grace in salvation equally and without difference. But we do not equally participate in God's grace and calling regarding our gifts. The OP is about our election and being chosen for salvation, not about our being chosen to fulfill a particular office of ministry.

No...not confused...I'm going by the biblical meaning according to Jewish customs and not current theological positions.

Which is what I have explained a couple of times. When you change definitions of words to suit things you want to promote...it's a bit of shaky ground to stand on.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No...not confused...I'm going by the biblical meaning according to Jewish customs and not current theological positions.

Which is what I have explained a couple of times. When you change definitions of words to suit things you want to promote...it's a bit of shaky ground to stand on.

Talk about this being chosen...

Ephesians 1:4
4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

The OP asks how you are sure you've been chosen to be holy and blameless in salvation and reserved for eternal life. How are you sure? Paul could tell the Thessalonians were chosen by how they received the gospel with power and conviction.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Then...
Just as a question...

How did king Saul in the Old Testament get to be indwelled with the Holy Spirit?

A Buddhist or a Muslim can not be indwelled with the Holy Spirit like Saul was. At this time in history, post crucifixion, the only way to get the Holy Spirit is to be chosen for salvation through faith in Christ's blood.

 

[JohnDB]

Talk about this being chosen...

Ephesians 1:4
4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight.

The OP asks how you are sure you've been chosen to be holy and blameless in salvation and reserved for eternal life. How are you sure? Paul could tell the Thessalonians were chosen by how they received the gospel with power and conviction.

Ok...
But the Early Church in Ephesus members were "chosen" to be the founding fathers of those who would follow in the years to come...and that is what Paul is referring to.

Again...huge difference in called vx chosen.

I can't believe in your unique definition of "chosen"...I just can't...

A person may be chosen to perform a task regardless of being called.

And that's a definite distinction I'm unable to get past.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Then...
Just as a question...

How did king Saul in the Old Testament get to be indwelled with the Holy Spirit?

Hi, John, interesting question.

Where does the Bible say that the Holy Spirit indwelled King Saul as it does believers beginning in Acts 2? In 1 Sam 10:9, we're told that the Spirit of God began to control King Saul. And later, the Spirit departed from Saul (1 Sam 16:14), and God sent an evil spirit to torment him, which is why David was brought into the court to play his lyre for Saul.

One thing to consider is that the one true God of Israel made his Spirit to come upon Saul and control him for a time when he was anointed as the king. The god of the Muslims and the gods of the Buddhists are not the one true God. I think it's safe to say that those who place their trust in other gods would not be indwelled by the Holy Spirit, who IS God.
.

 

[JohnDB]

Hi, John, interesting question.

Where does the Bible say that the Holy Spirit indwelled King Saul as it does believers beginning in Acts 2? In 1 Sam 10:9, we're told that the Spirit of God began to control King Saul. And later, the Spirit departed from Saul (1 Sam 16:14), and God sent an evil spirit to torment him, which is why David was brought into the court to play his lyre for Saul.

One thing to consider is that the one true God of Israel made his Spirit to come upon Saul and control him for a time when he was anointed as the king. The god of the Muslims and the gods of the Buddhists are not the one true God. I think it's safe to say that those who place their trust in other gods would not be indwelled by the Holy Spirit, who IS God.

Particularly when Saul was prophesying amongst the prophets and taking off his robe of royalty...

Saul's Robe is a big factor in Samuel as one of the sub-themes.
David cut off a corner...
Saul took it off...
I'm sure that you get the idea.

This Holy Spirit in the Old Testament is a great study...grab an exhaustive concordance and get ready for a ride!

Joel is another instance...he was just a working stiff...not even an important guy...but he also came by his prophecy by agency of the Holy Spirit.

Sampson is another example... even though he was rebellious the Holy Spirit was the source of his power.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Hi, John, interesting question.

Where does the Bible say that the Holy Spirit indwelled King Saul as it does believers beginning in Acts 2? In 1 Sam 10:9, we're told that the Spirit of God began to control King Saul. And later, the Spirit departed from Saul (1 Sam 16:14), and God sent an evil spirit to torment him, which is why David was brought into the court to play his lyre for Saul.

One thing to consider is that the one true God of Israel made his Spirit to come upon Saul and control him for a time when he was anointed as the king. The god of the Muslims and the gods of the Buddhists are not the one true God. I think it's safe to say that those who place their trust in other gods would not be indwelled by the Holy Spirit, who IS God.
.

If you consider 'filled' with the Holy Spirit to be 'indwelt' by the Holy Spirit, however temporary that may or may not be, there's no reason to think that Saul and all the other kings, and prophets, and artisans of the old covenant period were not indwelt with the Holy Spirit as Oholiab and Bezalel were.

Exodus 31:2-6
2“See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with wisdom, with understanding, with knowledge and with all kinds of skills— 4to make artistic designs for work in gold, silver and bronze, 5to cut and set stones, to work in wood, and to engage in all kinds of crafts. 6Moreover, I have appointed Oholiab son of Ahisamak, of the tribe of Dan, to help him.

1 Samuel 10:6
6The Spirit of the Lord will come powerfully upon you (Saul), and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Ok...
But the Early Church in Ephesus members were "chosen" to be the founding fathers of those who would follow in the years to come...and that is what Paul is referring to.

Again...huge difference in called vx chosen.

I can't believe in your unique definition of "chosen"...I just can't...

A person may be chosen to perform a task regardless of being called.

And that's a definite distinction I'm unable to get past.

Forget about the gifting aspect of being among the chosen people of God for a moment. All of God's chosen people have a gift of some sort, and some measure of faith to operate in it. But the OP wants to know how you know for sure that you are among God's chosen people to begin with.

1 Peter 2:4-5
4As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him— 5you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house a to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

 

[JohnDB]

All of God's chosen people have a gift of some sort, and some measure of faith to operate in it

Gift I can agree with...
Faith I cannot.

 

[ChristisGod]

Gift I can agree with...
Faith I cannot.

John what do these passages about faith mean to you ?

1 Corinthians 4:7
7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

Romans 12:3
3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Galatians 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires


Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.


Ephesians 6:23
Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him

2 Peter 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 1:14
The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Particularly when Saul was prophesying amongst the prophets and taking off his robe of royalty...

Saul's Robe is a big factor in Samuel as one of the sub-themes.
David cut off a corner...
Saul took it off...
I'm sure that you get the idea.

This Holy Spirit in the Old Testament is a great study...grab an exhaustive concordance and get ready for a ride!

Joel is another instance...he was just a working stiff...not even an important guy...but he also came by his prophecy by agency of the Holy Spirit.

Sampson is another example... even though he was rebellious the Holy Spirit was the source of his power.

Yes, I agree that the Holy Spirit was at work in and through some people of the Old Testament, but I don't believe God's Spirit indwelled them like He does believers beginning in Acts 2 when the apostles were filled with the Spirit.

I noticed that you didn't give any specific scripture references or quotes.... Hmm

 

[JohnDB]

John what do these passages about faith mean to you ?

1 Corinthians 4:7
7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?

Romans 12:3
3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

Galatians 5:22-24
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires


Ephesians 2:8-9
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.


Ephesians 6:23
Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.


Philippians 1:29
For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him

2 Peter 1:1
Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

1 Timothy 1:14
The grace of our Lord was poured out on me abundantly, along with the faith and love that are in Christ

You don't have to have faith to be chosen...

God sets up leaders and deposes them...
I know many people who were chosen to be leaders and never had an ounce of faith.

 

[JohnDB]

I noticed that you didn't give any specific scripture references or quotes.... Hmm

I only use them as a last resort when it becomes obvious that someone has absolutely no clue the scriptures I am talking about.

I expect that those trying to school me and others should have some good knowledge and ideas of the scriptures I use...and where I use a lot of generalities...there are definitely scriptures backing up everything I have said.

If someone doesn't know them I firmly believe that they need to look at them for themselves and learn them. And I'm all for that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Gift I can agree with...
Faith I cannot.

It comes right from Romans 12:3-6

Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. 4For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your a faith...etc.

Even though we are all alike and identical in regard to being in Christ in salvation, we differ in regard to our gifts and the measure of faith, big or little, that we have received to walk in that gift. Paul also addresses this matter of being alike in the grace of salvation, but different in the grace we have received in regard to our gifts in Ephesians 4:4-13.

The OP makes reference to being chosen to eternal life, rather than being chosen in regard to a particular gifting. How is one sure they have been chosen for eternal life? The Bible tells us how we can know we have eternal life in salvation and how we can make our calling and election sure, removing all doubt about whether or not we have been elected/chosen to salvation.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I only use them as a last resort when it becomes obvious that someone has absolutely no clue the scriptures I am talking about.

I expect that those trying to school me and others should have some good knowledge and ideas of the scriptures I use...and where I use a lot of generalities...there are definitely scriptures backing up everything I have said.

If someone doesn't know them I firmly believe that they need to look at them for themselves and learn them. And I'm all for that.

LOL, sorry if I offended you, but I don't think the scriptures support your claims about the Spirit. I could spend an hour (which I don't have right now) trying to figure out which scriptures you're talking about.

I include the verses I'm using as support so that I can see what I'm talking about. (Maybe that's the teacher in me coming out.) Perhaps you should consider always including supporting scriptures in your posts. I noticed that you do sometimes.
.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You don't have to have faith to be chosen...

God sets up leaders and deposes them...
I know many people who were chosen to be leaders and never had an ounce of faith.

In the church you do have to have faith to be chosen. The OP is about the church and how one can be sure they have eternal life. The church is the only people that have eternal life.

The OP is about how we who claim to have that eternal life do indeed know we have that eternal life. The short answer is your life shows if you have eternal life or not. The fruit of the Spirit in a person shows they possess the calling and election of God.