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GodsGrace

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I am not surprised a nine year old would decide to keep a dime - I might have done the same when I was a kid. Defending your nine year old actions and expecting others to believe that you had the right to steal the money and that people who were holding you responsible were somehow wrong to do so? Makes me wonder if he is still 9!
Sounds like there were extenuating circumstances.
Maybe if he got a dime every now and then there would have been no need to take the one from the church envelope.
You know what the NT says,,,love covers a multitude of sins.
 

aspen

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Sounds like there were extenuating circumstances.
Maybe if he got a dime every now and then there would have been no need to take the one from the church envelope.
You know what the NT says,,,love covers a multitude of sins.

This is all beside the point
 

Helen

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I see different issues here, not just one.
1. The church was keeping tabs on what people were giving by giving each person a number - is that a right or wrong thing to do?

Yes it is totally wrong. Why? Because in all giving we are giving to God, not man, and not a church...God.
Not saying that the Pastor, Vicar, Priest should have done something..like pull the little boy aside and in love teach him about theft. Especially thrift to God. What a missed opportunity. A kindness may have changed Rollo's life.

The whole "numbering of envelopes" is wrong. It is no business of the pastor, vicar, or priest what each person gives to God.

<snip>
3. Abuse does impact and have a rippling effect on life and the choices we make, however we are still accountable for those choices , even if the actions of others have contributed in some way.

Yes agree. But as said...we all have childhood agony tales. And as you say...we are still accountable for what we do with them. It's the potato and egg story. Both put into boiling water for a period of time...one came out of it hard, one came out of it soft. These life experiences either make us bitter or better.

The last point is also something that applies to everyone, including those within church, and just because we may align with a certain church does not mean we cannot disagree with something they may have done - it seems to me that many defend everything , because they want to be loyal.

Butterfly
Amen, that is so true. Back to motivation again.
Leadership especially, hate to be questioned or disagreed with....in my experience anyway. They would much rather a person left the church than stay and disagree or call them to account.
 

GodsGrace

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This is all beside the point
No. It IS the point.
I hold the parents responsible for the proper upbringing of children.
It's not up to a child to understand the shortcomings af the adult/parent.
 

Helen

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The numbers belonged to a family group.
They were there to know how much each family donated.
It also made people give more knowing they were being tracked.

Well all I can say to that is WOW!!! I am shaking my head.
I think that is the kind of thing which made Jesus turn over the tables!!
 
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Stranger

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I wasn't talking about my mother or the church.
I was talking about you.
Do you have any compassion for people, especially children?

Whether I have compassion for people or not, doesn't change my statement concerning your experience.

Stranger
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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Aspen, I know from personal experience that it was also used for other reasons.
I gave one reason in my post no. 5.

So it is not used for tax purposes, huh.....
I am a member of the Catholic Church, GG - I think I understand how tithes are tracked.
This is a stupid thing to be arguing about.
 

aspen

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No. It IS the point.
I hold the parents responsible for the proper upbringing of children.
It's not up to a child to understand the shortcomings af the adult/parent.

Do you even get what I am talking about?
You are defending a child who is not under attack by anyone here.....
 

aspen

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Yes it is totally wrong. Why? Because in all giving we are giving to God, not man, and not a church...God.
Not saying that the Pastor, Vicar, Priest should have done something..like pull the little boy aside and in love teach him about theft. Especially thrift to God. What a missed opportunity. A kindness may have changed Rollo's life.

The whole "numbering of envelopes" is wrong. It is no business of the pastor, vicar, or priest what each person gives to God.



Yes agree. But as said...we all have childhood agony tales. And as you say...we are still accountable for what we do with them. It's the potato and egg story. Both put into boiling water for a period of time...one came out of it hard, one came out of it soft. These life experiences either make us bitter or better.


Amen, that is so true. Back to motivation again.
Leadership especially, hate to be questioned or disagreed with....in my experience anyway. They would much rather a person left the church than stay and disagree or call them to account.

Tithes are tax deductable BG - they are recorded in every church I have ever attended - including the Quaker Church I am going to. They provide you with a yearly statement.
 

Helen

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Tithes are tax deductable BG - they are recorded in every church I have ever attended - including the Quaker Church I am going to. They provide you with a yearly statement.

Okay I can see that thought pattern.
NOT that I agree with it!
Anytime I got an envelope in any church for giving...I never fill in my name.
I give to God, not for a tax benefit.
And any "charitable giving" whoever it is...we don't get tax receipts.
Our choice.
The Church should not involve the government it it's affaires. That is asking for trouble...once in, you can't keep them out. Just my opinion.
 
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aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
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Okay I can see that thought pattern.
NOT that I agree with it!
Anytime I got an envelope in any church for giving...I never fill in my name.
I give to God, not for a tax benefit.
And any "charitable giving" whoever it is...we don't get tax receipts.
Our choice.
The Church should not involve the government it it's affaires. That is asking for trouble...once in, you can't keep them out. Just my opinion.

Contributions Receipts and Annual Contribution Statement
 
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Rollo Tamasi

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I am not surprised a nine year old would decide to keep a dime - I might have done the same when I was a kid. Defending your nine year old actions and expecting others to believe that you had the right to steal the money and that people who were holding you responsible were somehow wrong to do so? Makes me wonder if he is still 9!
Makes me realize why I care about wayward kids
 
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aspen

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Makes me realize why I care about wayward kids

I hope your idea about caring for wayward kids doesn’t include letting them get away with lying and stealing - that only sets them up for failure as adults
 
B

Butterfly

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Tithes are tax deductable BG - they are recorded in every church I have ever attended - including the Quaker Church I am going to. They provide you with a yearly statement.
I agree about the tithes being taxable, and we always had a yearly statement- but not a personal one with regards to what I contributed. No one knew what was given as money was placed in a box by individuals privately - unless a person wanted to add a cheque, or of they tithed through a standing order or bank account. It was the choice of the person giving to make known what they are contributing and tithing , NOT the choice of the church leadership - which is the underlying issue in the opening post.
If you have no problem with it personally, that's fine. However it does not make others wrong for seeing things differently
Butterfly
 
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aspen

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I agree about the tithes being taxable, and we always had a yearly statement- but not a personal one with regards to what I contributed. No one knew what was given as money was placed in a box by individuals privately - unless a person wanted to add a cheque, or of they tithed through a standing order or bank account. It was the choice of the person giving to make known what they are contributing and tithing , NOT the choice of the church leadership - which is the underlying issue in the opening post.
If you have no problem with it personally, that's fine. However it does not make others wrong for seeing things differently
Butterfly

People can view it anyway they would like, but to say that a church is using numbers on envelopes to pressure people to tithe more is baiting and false
 
B

Butterfly

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People can view it anyway they would like, but to say that a church is using numbers on envelopes to pressure people to tithe more is baiting and false
If they were keeping a record , and using that information at a later date to determine who got allocations to the school, then by default, if people knew about that, they would feel under pressure to give more so that thier child got a place. Now whether that was happening in every church is uncertain, but the fact that it has happened in at least one because it is known about can hardly make it completely false.
Butterfly
 
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mjrhealth

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Btw, the numbers on the envelope were there to keep track of donations, not people
And they need to why??? David got in trouble with God for counting the people. Quick to blame teh people slow to blame teh church. Teh church should be content with what ever it gets. But a man must defend His wife if HE loves her.
 

Marymog

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I can't believe you people!
You place your values onto an abused 9 year old growing up in a tough neighborhood and pretty much on his own growing up.
You say it was my dime?
You bet it was.
Any money that was put in my hand was mine.
And lots of time I had to fight to keep it.
Ever have to live with that when you were a kid?
Honor your mother and father?
I didn't know what honor meant.
The word was never used in my house.

The school teachers.
All you people could be school teachers.
Follow the rules or be punished.
Dear friend,

They are not MY values. They are Christian values: thou shalt not steal, honor your father and mother.

I get it. You were nine and lived in a bad home. You are now older, reflecting and sharing this story as an adult. Now that you are older and wiser it seems you would have more of a “I now get what my mother was trying to teach me” attitude and that is what your story would be about. Instead you say “i would have punched them out” and are trying to make it an anti-Catholic story. What you experienced at the age of 9 had nothing to do with catholic doctrine.

God must be a school teacher!!;) Follow the rules or be punished.

Mary

BTW....The dime put in your hand wasn’t yours....it was your mothers.
 

GodsGrace

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Well all I can say to that is WOW!!! I am shaking my head.
I think that is the kind of thing which made Jesus turn over the tables!!
I agree absolutely.
I can't remember being in a Protestant church where envelopes were used for "donations". Or, at least, not envelopes with a numbering system.