Are you part of the elect?

[Truman]

oh i am a false convert, but i still believe in the gospel. I believe in the doctrine of election 100%, and thats how i know im not of the elect.

You believe the gospel, that's good...so do I!
The first time I heard the gospel, I believed it. God did something in my heart. Then, for a few years, I didn't have any believers around me. Then, when I did, I was told errant doctrine that led me to believe that I wasn't good enough to be accepted by Christ.
It took me a long time to understand that I'd been taught error and misunderstood how it worked. One misunderstood line of scripture ruined my life, hard to believe as that may be. I was taught that a true Christian didn't sin anymore. I believed it.
We need to be very careful about what we believe. It sounds to me like you are a believer. You may need to be discipled properly.

 

[amadeus]

What reason would God have of creating people who, no matter how good they were, couldn't go to heaven?

Even so! People make their choices for their own purposes and receive their rewards or punishments as a result of those choices.

According to you faith be it unto you! What is it that we have faith in...?

 

[Bob Estey]

Even so! People make their choices for their own purposes and receive their rewards or punishments as a result of those choices.

According to you faith be it unto you! What is it that we have faith in...?

Yes, we have the ability to choose our own fate. We can obey the Lord and have peace (heaven), or disobey and have torment. I don't believe our fates are predetermined.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Yes, we have the ability to choose our own fate. We can obey the Lord and have peace (heaven), or disobey and have torment. I don't believe our fates are predetermined.

so you think you can surprise God?? Everything and everyone is predestined. Before God even created the universe, He knew who would and would not be saved.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

so you think you can surprise God?? Everything and everyone is predestined. Before God even created the universe, He knew who would and would not be saved.

But did he predetermine it?
That is the fundamental question.

I, personally, at this place in my understanding do not believe in the Calvinistic understanding of election.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

But did he predetermine it?
That is the fundamental question.

I, personally, at this place in my understanding do not believe in the Calvinistic understanding of election.

so i would ask first, do you believe that God can do with us as He pleases??
Do you believe the reason for our existence is to glorify God?
And do you believe that we (clay) should be able to tell God ( potter) what we want for Him to make us in to?

 

[Bob Estey]

so you think you can surprise God?? Everything and everyone is predestined. Before God even created the universe, He knew who would and would not be saved.

It could be true he knew ahead of time, but if you are not saved, it isn't because of anything he did.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

It could be true he knew ahead of time, but if you are not saved, it isn't because of anything he did.

in this case, its what He didnt do. Whoever God calls, will be saved. If someone doesnt get saved before they die, its because God never called them. You have NO choice whatsoever concerning your salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

so i would ask first, do you believe that God can do with us as He pleases??

Yes.

Do you believe the reason for our existence is to glorify God?

The reason for our existence is to live for him in righteousness (Titus 2:14).
He gets glorified in the process (Matthew 5:16).

And do you believe that we (clay) should be able to tell God ( potter) what we want for Him to make us in to?

No.

This passage will help you understand how this 'Potter and the clay' thing works:
Jeremiah 18:1-11

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

I think the WCF shorter catechism may help you.
Shorter Catechism of the Assembly of Divines | Reformed Theology at A Puritan's Mind

 

[MatthewG]

The elect. Those that have been predestined to be saved. Are you one of the elect? Saving faith is not possible without divine election. This means having saving faith is a sign of your election. Are you one of the elect? Do you have any real feelings for the Lord? If so, then you are part of the elect.
Just as one cannot repent without God granting them repentance, one cannot be saved without God choosing them to be saved. So, are you of the elect?

Pertains to the Nation of Israel in that day before the destruction of Jerusalem. The nation of Israel was the predestined people that God chose to work with.

If it was not for the Jewish people putting the Messiah to death we wouldn’t even be able have good news. That good news is that God was making a work around divorcing the old covenant creating a new one that was far better and it has nothing to with works. It is all grace through faith on the Lord Jesus Christ who, died, was buried and resurrected.

My view pertains that because of the victory of Jesus on the cross over, sin, death, satan, being separated from God, that all people now are part of an edenic state where people are choosing to either accept or reject the Gospel of Christ.

 

[Truth7t7]

so you think you can surprise God?? Everything and everyone is predestined. Before God even created the universe, He knew who would and would not be saved.

I Agree 100% He Is God, The Alpha And Omega, The First And The Last

 

[Truth7t7]

Pertains to the Nation of Israel in that day before the destruction of Jerusalem. The nation of Israel was the predestined people that God chose to work with.

If it was not for the Jewish people putting the Messiah to death we wouldn’t even be able have good news. That good news is that God was making a work around divorcing the old covenant creating a new one that was far better and it has nothing to with works. It is all grace through faith on the Lord Jesus Christ who, died, was buried and resurrected.

My view pertains that because of the victory of Jesus on the cross over, sin, death, satan, being separated from God, that all people now are part of an edenic state where people are choosing to either accept or reject the Gospel of Christ.

The Jews rejected Jesus Christ the chief corner stone, the kingdom of God was taken from them, and given to a Nation (The Church)

Matthew 21:42-43KJV
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

1 Peter 2:9KJV
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

 

[amigo de christo]

But did he predetermine it?
That is the fundamental question.

I, personally, at this place in my understanding do not believe in the Calvinistic understanding of election.

Men can really mess up our minds .
We will never in this life fully know all things about GOD or predistination .
BUT what we do know is
GOD says over and over and over again , all over scriptures that HIS DESIRE is not that the wicked perish
but rather they would repent .
AND WE KNOW something else my friend . SO simple even a child could grasp it .
ALL we need to DO is point to JESUS and the gospel .
CAUSE in the end , THOSE WHO BELIEVE are saved and those who did not are damned .
SO all we REALLY NEED TO KNOW IS , PREACH JESUS if ya want folks saved .
WHOEVER comes amen whoever rejects its on them . SEE how simple it truly can be , IF we just read the bible for ourselves
and didnt followed some wacked out men .

 

[amigo de christo]

Even so! People make their choices for their own purposes and receive their rewards or punishments as a result of those choices.

According to you faith be it unto you! What is it that we have faith in...?

This is exactly why i say it had been far more simplier if folks had just learned the bible for themselves my friend .
As though calvin or anyone else FULLY UNDERSTOOD predistanation or GOD .
What i see in the bible is this . How many times in even the old testament
DID GOD say , ITS NOT HIS DESIRE , NOR DOES HE TAKE PLEASURE IN THE DEATH OF THE WICKED .
BUT rather HIS DESIRE WAS THEY WOULD REPENT .
Calvin DONT ADD UP my friend .
AND i think we truly should keep it simple . instead of trying to FIGURE GOD OUT
WHY NOT JUST PREACH or TEACH JESUS . Cause in the end those who truly believed are saved and those who reject are damned .
TIS REALLY ALL WE NEED TO KNOW . Just POINT TO JESUS and LET GOD DO AS GOD WILL DO .

 

[MatthewG]

They where still chosen by God predestined since the day God brought forth Abraham to bring about the nation of Israel along with the twelve tribes.

It doesn’t negate the fact they were the ones whom were predestined.

It’s up to you to believe how you will.

 

[Bob Estey]

in this case, its what He didnt do. Whoever God calls, will be saved. If someone doesnt get saved before they die, its because God never called them. You have NO choice whatsoever concerning your salvation.

No, God calls all of us. How could a loving God create someone and send them to hell for no reason?

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

No, God calls all of us. How could a loving God create someone and send them to hell for no reason?

Whew, this is bad thinking on your part. Everyone who goes to hell deserves hell. God is just, He doesnt send anyone to hell just for no reason.
From RC Sproul, a fellow presbyterian,

“Yet as straightforward as the Word of God is, people continually have difficulty accepting the doctrine of election. The reason, again, is that they allow their preconceived notions of how God should act (based on a human definition of fairness) to override the truth of His sovereignty as laid out in the Scriptures.

Frankly, the only reason to believe in election is because it is found explicitly in God’s Word. No man and no committee of men originated this doctrine. It is like the doctrine of eternal punishment in that it conflicts with the dictates of the carnal mind. It is repugnant to the sentiments of the unregenerate heart. Like the doctrine of the Holy Trinity and the miraculous birth of our Savior, the truth of election, because it has been revealed by God, must be embraced with simple and unquestioning faith. If you have a Bible and you believe it, you have no option but to accept what it teaches.”

 

[Enoch111]

From RC Sproul, a fellow presbyterian

Sproul was a dyed-in-the-wool Calvinist, and Five Point Calvinism is a FALSE GOSPEL.

 

[MatthewG]

Am very thankful for Jesus victory on the cross for the sins of all people. The whole world has been reconciled back to God because of this act of love that God had shown to Jew and Gentile alike. Imagine if Jesus just only died for some, would we really have good news to share to other people?

My best estimation is no we would not, however you do have good news to share.

Jesus overcame death,sin,Satan,and hell… that anyone who believes that He was buried and resurrected can be saved from the bondage of sin and death. Which is spiritual death that is overcame by and through faith.

Jesus has saved the world from Satan, death, sin and hell. Already once and for all people. It is just a choice now if people believe that and receive faith and live life in accordance to the Will of God which is expressed in and through out the entire Bible.

To love God, and to Love others being saved by the grace of God through faith on the death, burial, and resurrection.

However there are people out there now today whom still believe that Jesus victory is not completely done. Also that the Revelation has not been completed. So you will have people out there also who believe they are chosen and elected by God (which they had no service in receiving) because God chosen them over every other people in the earth.

The reality is God chosen the nation of Israel over all else to work through to bring forth the messiah who would going to put and end to the devils work, also to bring about salvation to the Jewish people and Gentile nations alike.

God calls all people to himself and the end result according to the Bible is to be saved to the kingdom of heaven/ God/ Heavenly Jerusalem is to have faith on the Lord Jesus Christ who died, was buried and resurrected again to new life.

Otherwise you will end up outside of the kingdom and as people now in today’s time have all ample time to seek and grow in the knowledge of God by looking and seeking in the Bible.