Assurance of salvation:

[verzanumi24]

No - it not.

The prophecy in Gen. 3:15 isn't just about the offspring of the Woman - but about the Woman herself as well.
It is about BOTH of them - AND Satan.

John 26:27
When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, “Woman,here is your son,” and to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.

Was Mary the mother of John??
Nope.

Why would Jesus tell a lie like this??

WRONG.
This is based on your ignorance of Jewish culture.

To the Jews - "Firstborn" simply meant, "the one who opens his mother's womb."
Whether she has TWELVE children - or just ONE - her first child is the "Firstborn".


Ummmm, where does it say that these are MARY'S children?
The word for brother (Adelphos) is used in the NT 344 times. Let's take a look . . .

Of the 344 times we see the use of the word “Adelphos”, “Adelphe” and all of their variations, we see that –
- 41 cases (12%) where "adelphos" clearly or probably refers to a family sibling.
- 47 cases (14%) where "adelphos" may or may not refer to a family sibling.
- There are a whopping 256 cases (74%) where "adelphos" cannot or almost certainly does not refer to a family sibling.

Adelphos can mean uterine sibling, half brother, step brother, adopted brother, cousin, uncle, distant relation, neighbor, fellow countryman, fellow believer, etc.

Let's see some Biblical examples of this word.
- In Gen. 14:14, Lot is called Abraham’s "Adelpohs", even though he was the son of Haran, Abraham’s brother (Gen. 11:26–28).

- In Gen. 29:15, Jacob is referred to as the "Adelphos" of his uncle Laban.

- Brothers Kish and Eleazar were the sons of Mahli. Kish had sons of his own, but Eleazar’s daughters married their "Adelphoi”, the sons of Kish - who were actually their COUSINS (1 Chr. 23:21–22).

FINALLY - these so-called "brothers" of Jesus are actually named in Scripture:
Mark 6:3
Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon?

HOWEVER, when we read the accounts of the women standing near the cross with Mary - we see that these are the children of the "other Mary", who is related to Mary (Jesus' Mother). It says that she is Mary's "Sister" (Adelphe) - yet they are BOTH named "Mary":
Matt. 27:56 says, "…among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of the sons of Zebedee".

Mark 15:40 states, "There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome").

Finally, John 19:25 states, "But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother’s SISTER, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene".

When you compare the different accounts of the crucifixion, they clearly show the mother of James and Joseph to be the wife of Clopas (also called, Alphaeus) – not Mary, the Mother of Jesus. Any attempt to connect these people as uterine brothers of Jesus are squashed by the Bible.

That's about as WEAK an answer as I've ever heard.
This would have been a scandalous insult and NOT something Jesus would have done.

Remember - Jesus never violated the Law - He FULFILLED it.

I'm done with you......I'm not going to keep beating a dead horse.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm done with you......I'm not going to keep beating a dead horse.

That's your choice - but next time, do your homework before you go around making false claims about Mary.

 

[H. Richard]

Assurance of salvation: Do you have it?

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

God never provided UNCONDITIONAL assurance of salvation to man no matter what man does.

But if men CONDITIONALLY continue to hear and follow Christ (John 10:27) then man can have the assurance he shall never perish (John 10:28)

 

[bbyrd009]

i'm not sure that that's quite the guarantee HR is looking for tho

 

[Helen]

Assurance of salvation: Do you have it?

YES!!! \0/ \0/ \0/
Thank You Father!!! :) :)

 

[Ac28]

For many years, I believed in OSAS. If one continues to believe in the death, burial, and resurrection, their salvation is assured. I now believe that if they lose their faith, their salvation can be lost. This passage sums it up.
1Cor 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


How Not to Obtain Salvation
1- Not by Peter
2- Not by Mary
3- Not by Works
4- Not by Mass
5- Not by Sprinkling
6- Not by Church Attendance
7- Not by Tithing
8- Not by keeping the Sabbath
9- Not by Penance
10- Not by Confession to a Priest
11- Not by Last Rites
12- Not by Repentance of Sins
13- Not by Purgatory
14- Not by a Rosary
15- Not by Pilgrimages
16- Not by keeping any or all of the Mosaic Law
17- Not by Poverty
18- Not by Meditation
19- Not by Catechisms
20- Not by Candles
21- Not by Holy Water
22- Not by Incense
23- Not by Water Baptism
24- Not by belonging to a specific church
25- Not by keeping the 10 Commandments

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

i'm not sure that that's quite the guarantee HR is looking for tho

Salvation is not independent of hearing and following Christ.

 

[bbyrd009]

Salvation is not independent of hearing and following Christ.

wadr i don't think "following Christ" is one of the verses that the "only believe" crowd have in their Bibles. Or at least i certainly cannot get any one of them to acknowledge that. Maybe you'll have better luck?

i'm kidding, of course, they will not hear you either; see, they have found a verse that guarantees them an eternal party in heaven with Jesus--as soon as they die of course--so what could you tell them that sounds better than that?

Tares are quite a bit stronger than mushrooms, so you would basically have to go straight to LSD or something lol, right.
We're talking about ppl to whom 'knowledge' has brought joy, see, not sorrow.
You think these ppl wanna hear "pick up your cross?"

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

wadr i don't think "following Christ" is one of the verses that the "only believe" crowd have in their Bibles. Or at least i certainly cannot get any one of them to acknowledge that. Maybe you'll have better luck?

i'm kidding, of course, they will not hear you either; see, they have found a verse that guarantees them an eternal party in heaven with Jesus--as soon as they die of course--so what could you tell them that sounds better than that?

Tares are quite a bit stronger than mushrooms, so you would basically have to go straight to LSD or something lol, right.
We're talking about ppl to whom 'knowledge' has brought joy, see, not sorrow.
You think these ppl wanna hear "pick up your cross?"

I can't change minds that are made up but I post in forums as this in hope to keep others from falling into such traps.

 

[BreadOfLife]

How Not to Obtain Salvation
1- Not by Peter
2- Not by Mary
3- Not by Works
4- Not by Mass
5- Not by Sprinkling
6- Not by Church Attendance
7- Not by Tithing
8- Not by keeping the Sabbath
9- Not by Penance
10- Not by Confession to a Priest
11- Not by Last Rites
12- Not by Repentance of Sins
13- Not by Purgatory
14- Not by a Rosary
15- Not by Pilgrimages
16- Not by keeping any or all of the Mosaic Law
17- Not by Poverty
18- Not by Meditation
19- Not by Catechisms
20- Not by Candles
21- Not by Holy Water
22- Not by Incense
23- Not by Water Baptism
24- Not by belonging to a specific church
25- Not by keeping the 10 Commandments

WHO said that this is the way to obtain salvation?

 

[Triumph1300]

WHO said that this is the way to obtain salvation?

Maybe his neighbour? Lol

 

[H. Richard]

Salvation is not independent of hearing and following Christ.

***

Following Christ........ Many will INTERPRET that in different ways so it has become meaningless and is just a religious sounding thing to say.

 

[bbyrd009]

***

Following Christ........ Many will INTERPRET that in different ways so it has become meaningless and is just a religious sounding thing to say.

imagine how we feel when you say "believing in Jesus" then ok

i mean which one sounds more "religious?"

 

[Grams]

Eph.2:

7
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

***

Following Christ........ Many will INTERPRET that in different ways so it has become meaningless and is just a religious sounding thing to say.

Following Christ means doing what Christ says. How can one be a follower/disciple of Christ if they are not doing what the Master says to do...."And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Luke 6:46

One has to conditionally hear and follow Christ ongoingly to qualify as one of His sheep, John 10:27 People can try and define hear and follow however they choose but it is not possible for anyone to be of Christ sheep unconditionally.

 

[bbyrd009]

but it is not possible for anyone to be of Christ sheep unconditionally.

nice. Not sure if this is absolutely true or not, but it is a good working understanding imo.
90 year olds might get to that point, maybe, who knows :)

 

[amadeus]

nice. Not sure if this is absolutely true or not, but it is a good working understanding imo.
90 year olds might get to that point, maybe, who knows :)

While time for us is a factor, it is not necessarily the final or deciding factor, is it? Someone striving to serve God over a long life, as men define long, [e.g. 90 years] may be more likely to be a sheep in the Lord's flock at the end, but it is still only as we can understand that it is only "more likely" rather than absolute.

What is it when it comes down to it that is absolute according to what we can see? The apostle Paul wrote of seeing "through a "glass darkly", which was something less than absolutely perfect vision. The perfect vision I would say is described more than once in scripture as "face to face". Paul also wrote that the "face to face" would be "then". But when is "then" to be? Or perhaps "when" is the wrong interrogative. Perhaps it should ask "how"?

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

The apostle John writes what is needed answering perhaps the "how" of it here:

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

So what is this "eyesalve"? Is it not what Jesus applied to the eyes of blind men so that they could see? But I am not speaking of the seeing of the eyes of flesh in the carnal heads of men. To really do we not have have Jesus as our Head? How else can the Body of Christ see anything clearly at all? How else can we ever see the face of the God... that is see "face to face"?

Moses wanted to see and what did God tell him?

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Ex 33:20

Did Jesus not change that by providing men with eyesalve?

 

[Helen]

nice. Not sure if this is absolutely true or not, but it is a good working understanding imo.
90 year olds might get to that point, maybe, who knows :)

Once a sheep always a sheep...even if a wandering one...
How does someone "un-sheep" themselves?
Not if they were a sheep in the first place.
As you know...I don't believe in evolution. :)

 

[Helen]

...the prodigal son though stinking of pigs ... that which were cursed.. was never the less still a son.