Augustine butchered the translation of early scripture, including the word "eonian"

[St. SteVen]

Then what is the point of the Gospel if there are no consequences for turning away from God?

Wow. There it is. (spiritual poison) Conversion via extortion.
I'm familiar with the "gospel" you are offering. The bad news.
Looks something like this.

Recieve the free gift of eternal life.
Or, if you prefer, you will be incinerated.

Spiritual extortion. Fear-based religion of man. The REALLY bad news.

cc: @Patrick1966

 

[St. SteVen]

Aionios mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46.

All these verses below use the same NT Greek word, "aionios", the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in Matthew 25:46. See bold below. This shows that "aionios" cannot mean eternal or everlasting.

Matthew 13:22
The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 2:8
None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.

Galatians 1:4-5 KJV
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:5 To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Compare: Matthew 12:32; Mark 10:30; Luke 18:30; Luke 20:35; Ephesians 1:21

Luke 18:29-30
“Truly I tell you,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or sisters or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30 will fail to receive many times as much in this age, and in the age to come eternal life.”

Aionios, the Greek word mistranslated as "eternal" and "everlasting" in the Bible (eternal hell?)

 

[Jay Ross]

Wow. There it is. (spiritual poison) Conversion via extortion.
I'm familiar with the "gospel" you are offering. The bad news.
Looks something like this.

Recieve the free gift of eternal life.
Or, if you prefer, you will be incinerated.

Spiritual extortion. Fear-based religion of man. The REALLY bad news.

cc: @Patrick1966

In the Parable of Lazarous and the Rich man, the rich man was told that he could not go back to warn his family of the consequences of their life choices. Their faith was decided by their choice to either worship God or not to worship God. After their physical death, their decision with respect to their relationship with God cannot be changed. It seems that you want to have two bites of the cherry if your first choice was wrong.

God draws people to Himself. It is the peoples' choice as to how they respond. The consequences of a person's choice is determined by them and is not through spiritual poison as you are suggesting.

 

[Jack]

Tell me you didn't read the article without telling me you didn't read the article.

I interested in Scriptures.

 

[Patrick1966]

God's Wrath REMAINS on you, in Hell...

Why? I am a faithful believer in Christ. Why should I be sent to Hell?

 

[Patrick1966]

Listen,

God's Wrath REMAINS on you, in Hell, because its on all Christ Rejectors, right now who are Breathing.

John 3:36

This Wrath of God, that is Judgement, Eternal, for your sin of CHRIST REJECTION< "remains on you".... right now, and after you die.
It does not stop.......in Hell, or in the Lake of FIre.
This is the "2nd Death".

New International Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

New Living Translation
And anyone who believes in God’s Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn’t obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God’s angry judgment.”

English Standard Version
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Berean Standard Bible
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”

Berean Literal Bible
The one believing in the Son has eternal life, but the one not obeying the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

King James Bible
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Thank you for the verses. However, I believe they are incorrectly translated. Did you read any of the articles that I previously shared?

 

[Patrick1966]

In the Parable of Lazarous and the Rich man, the rich man was told that he could not go back to warn his family of the consequences of their life choices.

Correct. But that is for an AGE (a period of time), not forever.

 

[Patrick1966]

God draws people to Himself. It is the peoples' choice as to how they respond.

That's not accurate my brother. God will draw ALL mankind go him and nobody will be able (or willing) to resist him!

2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Hey @Jay Ross The scripture is clear. ALL men will be saved, in the end. Yes, some will go to the LOF but, in the end, God will save ALL men because God is GREAT, God is capable, God is merciful, God is LOVE!

 

[Jay Ross]

Correct. But that is for an AGE (a period of time), not forever.

That is the way you want to understand the parable. I do not believe that your understanding is in line with Jesus' words.

 

[Jay Ross]

That's not accurate my brother. God will draw ALL mankind go him and nobody will be able (or willing) to resist him!

2 Corinthians 5:19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.

John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

John 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Philippians 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Hey @Jay Ross The scripture is clear. ALL men will be saved, in the end. Yes, some will go to the LOF but, in the end, God will save ALL men because God is GREAT, God is capable, God is merciful, God is LOVE!

That is the way you want to understand God's Gospel. Your understanding does not line up with God's understanding of His purposes.

 

[Patrick1966]

That is the way you want to understand God's Gospel. Your understanding does not line up with God's understanding of His purposes.

It must sadden God that many of his children believe him to be forever unforgiving, vengeful, and cruel.

 

[Jay Ross]

It must sadden God that many of his children believe him to be forever unforgiving, vengeful, and cruel.

 

[Patrick1966]

One day in paradise you'll play badminton with Mother Teresa, Hitler, and Madonna.

 

[Jay Ross]

One day in paradise you'll play badminton with Mother Teresa, Hitler, and Madonna.

 

[Patrick1966]

Excerpt:

If “forever” can seem to work as a translation, why quibble about it? The problem is there are also dozens of verses where this translation would be nonsensical. Consider, for example, when the resurrected Jesus gave encouragement to his disciples on a mountain in Galilee: “and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world [aiōnos]” (Matt 28:20; KJV). Clearly, this couldn’t be translated as “unto the end of the forever”, or “unto the end of the eternity”. So, what is going on with the original Greek? The Greek closes ἕωςτῆς συντελείας τοῦ αἰῶνος, which translates more literally as “until the completion of the age [aiōnos]”. Yet here, the KJV suddenly chooses “world”.
It does so in many other instances where “forever” would be clearly unsuitable. Consider Paul’s Epistle to the Romans, where he warns the fledgling church “be not conformed to this world” (Rom 12:2; KJV). The Greek here is μὴ συσχηματίζεσθε τῷ αἰῶνι, quite literally “be not conformed to the age [aiōni]”. Clearly, “be not conformed to this forever” or “be not conformed to this eternity” would make no sense. And so the KJV and many other major English-language bibles, which translate aion as “forever” elsewhere, are here forced to use a very different word: “world”.
In other instances, the problems posed are even more obvious, because it is explicitly stated that the aion has an end, and therefore cannot be eternal. Consider Jesus’ parable of the tares: “As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world [aiōnos]” (Matt 13:40; KJV). Of course, one cannot speak of the end of an eternity!

 

[rwb]

That's not what Paul said.

we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people,

Yes, He is! All people without distinction, but not all people without exception! Because Scripture unequivocally says salvation is for whosoever believes. Since He is the Savior of all people, whosoever believes, His salvation is not limited to any one nation, people, tribe or tongue. It is for this reason that we pray for all men without exception, including those in authority over us, because the prayer of righteous men is of great value, and who knows who God will draw and bring to salvation through Him according to our prayers of faith?

1 Timothy 2:1-4 (KJV) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

[rwb]

Correct. But that is for an AGE (a period of time), not forever.

The prophet Isaiah tells us that God inhabits eternity. We are told after we die, having faith we shall be with Him, where He is.

Isaiah 57:15 (KJV) For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

John 14:3 (KJV) And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

ETERNITY - Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
5703. עַד ad (ʻad)

עַד ʻad, ad - from H5710; properly, a (peremptory) terminus, i.e. (by implication) duration, in the sense of advance or perpetuity (substantially as a noun, either with or without a preposition):—eternity, ever(-lasting, -more), old, perpetually, world without end.

masculine noun

What period or amount of time will you place on the eternal dwelling place of God? If only to the end of an age, how long shall that age be?

 

[Wrangler]

Also, the "literal" derivation of a word doesn't equate to its meaning.

A bit paradoxical but true, which is why I generally prefer thought translations. A literal translation of the words "a rolling stone gathers no moss" misses the thought of the expression.

We speak in idioms far more than we realize it. You can quote me on that 24/7. My Japanese co-workers can't stand it when I talk like that. The expression "can't stand it" does not mean what a literal word by word translation communicates.

Of course, my Japanese co-workers can stand it; they just have to recognize the expression is an idiom and not to be taken literally. Here is were discernment comes in, which is how God can hide his meaning in plain sight to unbelievers.