Babylon

[Jerry Huerta]

Hi Jerry,

Well, first the `bride` is Israel,` (Isa. 54: 5 & 6. Hos. 2: 19 & 20) (BTW do you like being called a female, a bride? nonsense.) We are the Body. There is no male or female, but the New Man has both characteristics.

We, the Body of Christ do not come back with the Lord. We are on the Lord`s own throne ruling with Him. He sets up His rule through Israel over the nations of the world in the millennium and returns to heaven. We rule, judge fallen angels and the world System from there. (1 Cor. 2 & 3)

The angels that are sent gather the people of Israel that have scattered throughout the trib. and bring them back to Israel.

Ao Jerry, are you saying that Jerusalem is over all the religions of the earth. Interesting when all the world is coming against Israel and soon will. (Zech. 12: 9)

The WCC (World Council of Churches) can and have fallen. They bow to the UN`s earth religion.

And the wealth of the world is in the East, whereas the West is in great debt.

You said the UN was Babylon, now you’re trying to change it to ecumenicalism. Point is that none of them enriched the merchants. The Magisterial reformers held intercourse with the kings of the earth which ultimately led to the enrichment of the church and the merchants through the secularization of society. Furthermore, the Magisterial reformers represent the mother of the harlot daughters, the Protestant denominations. The UN and ecumenicalism have little to do with the prophecy,

Revelation 18
3 For all nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living." ESV

Ancient Israel was comprised of men, and the body was illustrated as a bride. Obviously, you fail to grasp that, and it’s not nonsense.

Paul relates the same relationship to the Church, in the sense we are betrothed,

2 Corinthians 11
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. KJV

Paul’s addressing the church, not the Jews. Here’s what he says about the new creature, the Church,

Galatian 6
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Obviously, you espouse dispensationalism, I don’t, for the reason the Church is Israel according to the NT.

Furthermore, the NT maintains the overcomers inherit and rule on earth,

Matthew 5
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Revelation 5
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

You said the UN was Babylon, now you’re trying to change it to ecumenicalism. Point is that none of them enriched the merchants. The Magisterial reformers held intercourse with the kings of the earth which ultimately led to the enrichment of the church and the merchants through the secularization of society. Furthermore, the Magisterial reformers represent the mother of the harlot daughters, the Protestant denominations. The UN and ecumenicalism have little to do with the prophecy,

Revelation 18
3 For all nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living." ESV

Ancient Israel was comprised of men, and the body was illustrated as a bride. Obviously, you fail to grasp that, and it’s not nonsense.

Paul relates the same relationship to the Church, in the sense we are betrothed,

2 Corinthians 11
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. KJV

Paul’s addressing the church, not the Jews. Here’s what he says about the new creature, the Church,

Galatian 6
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Obviously, you espouse dispensationalism, I don’t, for the reason the Church is Israel according to the NT.

Furthermore, the NT maintains the overcomers inherit and rule on earth,

Matthew 5
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Revelation 5
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Hi Jerry,

I was just showing that the WCC was in there with the many other religions too. They all are prostitutes, turn from the truth as Rom. 1: 20 - 25. The UN is the `mother` of them all, bringing them all under the `mother earth religion.`

We cannot base a doctrine on an exhortation (Eph. 5) and a symbol that Paul uses for his own disciples. (2 Cor. 11)

So if we are Israel then God did an oops for He made Israel and worked with them for centuries. God is omniscient, (all knowing) and seems to have not realized that a few pharisees could stop His purpose for Israel.

We inherit the rulership with Christ on His own throne in the highest. (Rev.3: 21) And we shall reign `epi` OVER the earth. The Greek word `epi is `on or over.` Thus we need more scriptures as to which.

 

[Earburner]

Both preterists and futurists are wrong about Babylon, but so are historicists. The idealist view gets forgotten and overlooked, but it is the correct one. Babylon does not represent any particular earthly entity, but rather represents the spiritual opposite of the heavenly new Jerusalem. It is the mother of harlots, of which the Papacy and RCC is only one. Your view of Babylon is too narrow. Its scope is well beyond just the Papacy and RCC. Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, Secular Humanists, etc. are all citizens of Babylon and none of those have anything to do with the Papacy and RCC. Babylon is the mother of all harlots, including the Papacy, while the heavenly Jerusalem is the mother of all believers (Galatians 4:26).


Luther is not a trustworthy source for doctrine. He believed in total depravity and had some other views similar to John Calvin's false beliefs in relation to salvation, also.


Wrong. Of all the things you can criticize preterism about, this is not one of them. Do you not believe that you are in Christ's kingdom now? The kingdom that He said does not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (John 18:36).

Colossians 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Do you not believe that you have been delivered from the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of the Father's dear Son Jesus Christ? Do you think Paul didn't know what he was talking about here?


Agree.



Notice at that point it says "the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father". Why is it called "the kingdom of their Father"? Because Jesus will have delivered the kingdom He rules over now to the Father at that point.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

If all would recall, the literal city of Babylon was judged and destroyed by God long ago in 539 BC.

So then, why would God have a remembrance of it, that it should be repeated again, unless of course He has called a judgment and vengeance against another "great city" that was not Babylon, but became like it.
The irony of the name of Babylon being "that Great city", is also declared of as being a "Mystery". So then, if it's a "mystery", we are to conclude that the name Babylon is being applied to another Great city that is not literally the one and only historic Babylon.

Rev. 14:8; 17:18; 18:2,10,16,19,21.
Rev. 21:10.
How it is that another city is "that Great city", called a "Mystery", is not because of a mystery, but rather that the mystery itself is there are two Great cities [named Jerusalem] that God is calling "that Great city", whereby one Great city "is fallen" but the other Great city "is above, is free and is the mother of us all". Gal. 4:6.
Therefore, I percieve that "Jerusalem which now is", is that Great city which "is fallen", and most assuredly did fall in 70AD under the Roman Commander Titus.
Rev. 14:8; 18:2.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Hi Jerry,

I was just showing that the WCC was in there with the many other religions too. They all are prostitutes, turn from the truth as Rom. 1: 20 - 25. The UN is the `mother` of them all, bringing them all under the `mother earth religion.`

We cannot base a doctrine on an exhortation (Eph. 5) and a symbol that Paul uses for his own disciples. (2 Cor. 11)

So if we are Israel then God did an oops for He made Israel and worked with them for centuries. God is omniscient, (all knowing) and seems to have not realized that a few pharisees could stop His purpose for Israel.

We inherit the rulership with Christ on His own throne in the highest. (Rev.3: 21) And we shall reign `epi` OVER the earth. The Greek word `epi is `on or over.` Thus we need more scriptures as to which.

Hi Marilyn

I’m sorry, your point about the UN and the WCC is a Johnny-come-lately when it comes the apostasy of the Church, when one considers the Magisterial reformation’s intercourse with the kings of the earth. And it really has no application to the reason the merchants are made rich, insomuch it was the secularization of society by apostate Protestantism that enriched the merchants.

As to the assertion of an exhortation in 1 Cor. 11, Romans 7 affirms my point,

Romans 7:
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

Paul upholds that Israel is divorced in Hosea 1-2, which bars them from being taken back as his bride again for their harlotry. But their husband, Christ, has died releasing them from the law and allowing them to remarry him, which is why Paul said they are now eligible to be espoused, betrothed to the risen Christ,

Romans 7:
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

I think you need a study on the OT. In Isaiah 14 the LORD conveys that when Jacob/Israel is gathered strangers shall be joined to them, which parallels the conditions expressed in Galatians 6:15-16.

Isaiah 14:
1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

But Christ came to scatter the sheep, not to gather them,

Matthew 13:
24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

The source of Christ’s parables are the scriptures. In Jeremiah’s chapter on the New Covenant, God planned to scatter the sheep, sow them in the wilderness to build and plant, which is one of the sources of Christ’s parable, as I stated,

Jeremiah 31:
27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.
28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.

As supported by Galatians 6:15-16, their gathering exemplifies what is prophesied in Isaiah 14. Again, the gathering mentioned is supported by Galatians 6:15-16 and serves as an example of what is prophesied in Isaiah 14.

You have failed to grasp what the Pharisees failed to note. They failed to see both advents in which the sheep are scattered to help graft the Gentiles onto the olive tree, and then Christ returns to restore the Israel of Galatians 6:15-16.