BAPTISM SAVES, FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS"

[Grams]

Romans 5:

1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[BreadOfLife]

and that's what God does, He remains faithful even wen we fal short

1 Cor 1:8-9 He will also keep you firm to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God is faithful, who has called you into fellowship with his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 1:3-5 Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, 4who gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Phil 1:4-6 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Tit 1:1-2 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,

Heb 6:16-20 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

2 Pet 2:8-9 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

Jude 1:1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for a Jesus Christ:

Jude 1:24-25 To him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— 25to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.

Great verses - but He DOESN'T keep us faithful against our will.
He AIDS us to remain faithful in CONCERT with our will.

1 Tim. 2:3-4 states explicitly that God WILLS the salvation of ALL people and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth.
Will ALL be saved?? Absolutely NOT. This means that God's will is NOT always carried out.

You have YET to respond to the following verses that I have repeatedly presented that say just the OPPOSITE of what YOU claim (Matt. 5:13, Matt. 7:21, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).




.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Romans 5:
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Faith = Belief + OBEDIENCE (works).

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind person . . .

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot "blot out" a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God take away somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Great verses - but He DOESN'T keep us faithful against our will.
He AIDS us to remain faithful in CONCERT with our will.

1 Tim. 2:3-4 states explicitly that God WILLS the salvation of ALL people and that ALL come to a knowledge of the truth.
Will ALL be saved?? Absolutely NOT. This means that God's will is NOT always carried out.

Notice the word "ransom" and "redemption" also in 1 Tim 2:6 and Eph 1:14. Who's our advocate and mediator BOL?

1 Tim 2:6 - antilutron: a ransom
Eph 1:14 - apolutrósis: a release effected by payment of ransom

1 Tim 2:5-6 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

1 Jhn 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Matt. 7:21

And Jesus will say to those who work for the free gift...

Ezek 13

“ ‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash, 11therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?” 13“ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. 14I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it b falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord. 15So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it, 16those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.” ’

Matt 7

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Notice the word "ransom" and "redemption" also in 1 Tim 2:6 and Eph 1:14. Who's our advocate and mediator BOL?

1 Tim 2:6 - antilutron: a ransom
Eph 1:14 - apolutrósis: a release effected by payment of ransom

1 Tim 2:5-6 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

1 Jhn 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Thanks for PROVING my point.
Jesus paid for EVERYBODY - not just a few elect people.

And Jesus will say to those who work for the free gift...

Ezek 13

“ ‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash, 11therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?” 13“ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. 14I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it b falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord. 15So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it, 16those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.” ’

Matt 7

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

And thanks AGAIN for proving my point.

Salvation is NOT for those who simply "call upon" the name of Christ.
It is for those who DO THE WILL of the Father.

"Calling" on His name is a good FIRST step.
COOPERATING with His grace is the NEXT step . . .[/QUOTE]

 

[Heb 13:8]

Jesus paid for EVERYBODY - not just a few elect people.

Yes He did, but not everybody will accept His free gift. They too busy workin for it

Salvation is NOT for those who simply "call upon" the name of Christ.
It is for those who DO THE WILL of the Father.

"Calling" on His name is a good FIRST step.
COOPERATING with His grace is the NEXT step . . .

Hey BOL, wut's the subtitle for Eze 13, just out of curiosity...

Ezek 13

“ ‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash, 11therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?” 13“ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. 14I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it b falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord. 15So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it, 16those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.” ’

Matt 7

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes He did, but not everybody will accept His free gift. They too busy workin for it

Nonsense – nobody can work for it.
If you’re working for it – then you’ll be disappointed . . .

Hey BOL, wut's the subtitle for Eze 13, just out of curiosity...

Ezek 13
“ ‘Because they lead my people astray, saying, “Peace,” when there is no peace, and because, when a flimsy wall is built, they cover it with whitewash, 11therefore tell those who cover it with whitewash that it is going to fall. Rain will come in torrents, and I will send hailstones hurtling down, and violent winds will burst forth. 12When the wall collapses, will people not ask you, “Where is the whitewash you covered it with?” 13“ ‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord says: In my wrath I will unleash a violent wind, and in my anger hailstones and torrents of rain will fall with destructive fury. 14I will tear down the wall you have covered with whitewash and will level it to the ground so that its foundation will be laid bare. When it b falls, you will be destroyed in it; and you will know that I am the Lord. 15So I will pour out my wrath against the wall and against those who covered it with whitewash. I will say to you, “The wall is gone and so are those who whitewashed it, 16those prophets of Israel who prophesied to Jerusalem and saw visions of peace for her when there was no peace, declares the Sovereign Lord.” ’

Matt 7
15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Like I said before – I couldn’t have said it better than Matt. 7:21.

Those of you who simply “call” on the name of Christ because you took Rom. 10:13 completely OUT of context - and refused to be obedient are going to be SORELY disappointed on Judgement Day . . .

 

[Episkopos]

Nonsense – nobody can work for it.
If you’re working for it – then you’ll be disappointed . . .

Like I said before – I couldn’t have said it better than Matt. 7:21.

Those of you who simply “call” on the name of Christ because you took Rom. 10:13 completely OUT of context - and refused to be obedient are going to be SORELY disappointed on Judgement Day . . .

People usually jump to the wrong conclusions when they read about salvation in the bible.

If we call on the Lord He will save us....in our present situation. We can undergo many salvations on a daily or weekly basis.

It is only the indoctrinated religious mind that sees a one time event salvation to mean an eternal salvation.

People who were healed of diseases or the common cold were "saved" from their ailment. That is usually how the word "sodzo"...or "saved"...is used by Jesus. Sodzo means to preserve, restore to health...etc...

For an eternal salvation, we need to walk in the grace of God daily...until we die. When we walk by grace through faith...we are presently walking IN salvation. But we can stop doing that any time and go back to being worldly again.

 

[farouk]

People usually jump to the wrong conclusions when they read about salvation in the bible.

If we call on the Lord He will save us....in our present situation. We can undergo many salvations on a daily or weekly basis.

It is only the indoctrinated religious mind that sees a one time event salvation to mean an eternal salvation.

People who were healed of diseases or the common cold were "saved" from their ailment. That is usually how the word "sodzo"...or "saved"...is used by Jesus. Sodzo means to preserve, restore to health...etc...

For an eternal salvation, we need to walk in the grace of God daily...until we die. When we walk by grace through faith...we are presently walking IN salvation. But we can stop doing that any time and go back to being worldly again.

...but someone who draws back to perdition was never truly converted in the first place. Philippians 1.6

 

[Episkopos]

...but someone who draws back to perdition was never truly converted in the first place. Philippians 1.6

How can you draw back from something you never had? Can you say that the ground that received seed but bore no fruit never really received seed?

 

[farouk]

How can you draw back from something you never had? Can you say that the ground that received seed but bore no fruit never really received seed?

The very parable of the sower shows that there were grounds that had no root in them; growth was destined to fail.

Life and growth are a work of God, not man.

 

[BreadOfLife]

...but someone who draws back to perdition was never truly converted in the first place. Philippians 1.6

That's N

...but someone who draws back to perdition was never truly converted in the first place. Philippians 1.6

That's NOT what the Bible says (Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22, 2 Peter 3:17, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).
Even people with an EPIGNOSIS of Christ can fall away and be LOST.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Nonsense – nobody can work for it.
If you’re working for it – then you’ll be disappointed . . .

So you're working for it but don't even know it,, that's a hoot

 

[Episkopos]

The very parable of the sower shows that there were grounds that had no root in them; growth was destined to fail.

Life and growth are a work of God, not man.

So then in your scheme it was God that caused the person to have the cares of the world choke out the word?

 

[Marymog]

Mary, I have asked the same question, half a dozen different ways now. I am trying my hardest to be respectful and patient with you here. Your responding with accusations of dishonesty is not appreciated.

Thank you Jane Doe.

If I am in fact responding with "accusations of dishonesty" then please produce the evidence. In which post did you ask that question?

I don't see the question you allegedly asked and you can't produce that question soooooo how does that make ME dishonest??

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

You should not be looking for black and white laws. In the OT following Moses they had them. Perhaps in the Catholic Church they have them, but with us... at least some of us... they are what God write sin our hearts or speaks to us. If He did not write it on your heart of speak to you, you need to ask Him about it.

Dear, dear Amadeus.
Soooooo you have zero evidence that 1 Corinthians 13 says we are be charitable to those with whom we disagree?

Deuteronomy 4:2, Proverbs 30:6.

Can you quote at least a single passage from scripture that supports your statement?
Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

You should not be so literal. Some say that Protestants are deep into sola scriptura and then you come up with this. I have always, at least since long before belonging to this forum, NOT supported a sola scriptura stand.

Hmmmm.....quoting MULTIPLE passages from scripture that support what I believe and practice is being to literal. Fascinating. Does this mean in the future you will forgo quoting scripture to support what you believe and practice?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

No... Are you calling Him stupid?

Oh goodnees no Scott. I would never do that to Him.

I just believe (and practice) what He said: He took bread saying this IS my body.

He said he is the bread, the living bread, that came down from heaven and anyone that eats of it will not die, will live forever and whoever eats that bread abide in me, and I in them

Maybe, someday, you will believe what he said also? I believe it is stupid NOT to believe Him.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I agree with you and @Marymog .
We certainly should be baptized as Jesus instructed.

I do, however, understand that if we die and are not baptized we will still get to heaven IF we were followers of Jesus. There is a baptism of desire....

I did not mean that we should not get baptized.

However, if we die baptized and somewhere along the way we've lost our faith and no longer serve God....we will not make it to heaven.

I'm thinking of
John 5:28-29
John 15:1-6 and other such verses...

Thank you GG.

You/we agree with the teachings of the CC on the baptism of desire and that we will not make it to heaven if we loose our faith even though we are baptized.

Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Thank you Jane Doe.

If I am in fact responding with "accusations of dishonesty" then please produce the evidence. In which post did you ask that question?

I don't see the question you allegedly asked and you can't produce that question soooooo how does that make ME dishonest??

Curious Mary

Mary, I have asked you the question "in your opinion/beliefs, how should are person who believes some false tenets be treated?" half a dozen different ways now. You have not answered it again and again. And yes, I find Catholicism to be a church that believes some false tenets.

I advocate that people whom believe false tenets should be treated with respect still (which includes their beliefs). Hence my respect of Catholic people and their beliefs, even though I find some of those beliefs to be false.

Thus far, you seem to be of the opinion that respecting someone's less-than-completely-true-beliefs is wrong and sinful. Therefore, by your logic my respecting of Catholicism and Catholic individuals is sinful and should be repented of.

If this is not your view, I welcome you to clarify it now. But until then, that's the impression I have.