BAPTISM SAVES, FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS"

[Marymog]

I should indeed walk away...because after I have answered you, you disrespectfully act as though I did not.

I think what you meant to ask...is: What does that look like? Or: Would you please explain how it is that you "hear what the Spirit says" rather than trying to speculate what the language of the scriptures which God has confounded means?"

The answer is - you don't "do" anything. That's the problem. You are trying to "do" something.

It is God who does everything. We can only ask. And if you have asked and you don't know the answer...keep asking. Meanwhile, that would mean you have no business telling others what is right and wrong according to the scriptures.

Nope, didn't mean to ask that......

Soooo you honestly believe that Revelations 2:29 means all we have to do is HEAR what the Spirit says and we don't have to DO anything for salvation?

I agree....I am trying to "DO SOMETHING". I am trying to practice what Jesus told me to do which is observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you (Matthew 28:20).

Jesus said we MUST eat His....well......you know, and ignore, the rest of that passage so I digress. You are not the first to walk away from Him. Scripture talks about it in John 6:66.

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

Perhaps not your context, but mine... Jesus did not exhibit charity? Hmmm?

Dear, Dear, Dear Amadeus. In no way, shape, form or alternative universe does 1 Corinthians that you quoted have ANYTHING to do with charity. Since that is a FACT then that makes your "context" a twisting of scripture. If you can't see that then you have had your ears tickled beyond belief.

Jesus did exhibit charity.....but 1 Corinthians has nothing to do with charity like you seem to believe. It has to do with love.

Would you like to share a passage where He did exhibit charity?

Patient Mary

Since @Jane_Doe22 liked your post maybe she can help you out of this hole you have dug yourself into

 

[ScottA]

Nope, didn't mean to ask that......

Soooo you honestly believe that Revelations 2:29 means all we have to do is HEAR what the Spirit says and we don't have to DO anything for salvation?

I agree....I am trying to "DO SOMETHING". I am trying to practice what Jesus told me to do which is observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you (Matthew 28:20).

Jesus said we MUST eat His....well......you know, and ignore, the rest of that passage so I digress. You are not the first to walk away from Him. Scripture talks about it in John 6:66.

Bible study Mary

You are not "hearing what the Spirit says" at all, you are making a religious practice out of the things Jesus said that you should understand were spoken in parable...that He is not a literal Lamb, a literal loaf of bread, etc..

But it is apparently worse than that. Just where do you intend to get the actual and literal bread and blood, that you might eat and drink of it - from the Cloistered nuns and Welches? Will you go out in the desert and pray for manna? Or go search among the tombs in Jerusalem?

 

[Marymog]

You are not "hearing what the Spirit says" at all, you are making a religious practice out of the things Jesus said that you should understand were spoken in parable...that He is not a literal Lamb, a literal loaf of bread, etc..

But it is apparently worse than that. Just where do you intend to get the actual and literal bread and blood, that you might eat and drink of it - from the Cloistered nuns and Welches? Will you go out in the desert and pray for manna? Or go search among the tombs in Jerusalem?

What you mean is I am not hearing what YOU say and you THINK the Spirit speaks thru you and not thru The Church that was built on a rock and is the pillar and foundation of truth. Unless you think you are The Church spoken of in Scripture?

2nd try: You honestly believe that Revelations 2:29 means all we have to do is HEAR what the Spirit says and we don't have to DO anything for salvation?

Mary

 

[ScottA]

What you mean is I am not hearing what YOU say and you THINK the Spirit speaks thru you and not thru The Church that was built on a rock and is the pillar and foundation of truth. Unless you think you are The Church spoken of in Scripture?

2nd try: You honestly believe that Revelations 2:29 means all we have to do is HEAR what the Spirit says and we don't have to DO anything for salvation?

Mary

We are not talking about what to do for salvation, i.e., believe, repent, etc.. We are talking about baptism, and just recently whether or not Jesus was and is actually manifest in the bread and the wine and should be made into idols of worship for religious practices, or that He was only speaking of them as an allegory representation that they might understand that we need to partake with Jesus to be saved.

Likewise, one does not reenter the womb to be born again. Or do you believe that He meant that literally too? (Rhetorical, no need to answer).

 

[Marymog]

We are not talking about what to do for salvation, i.e., believe, repent, etc.. We are talking about baptism, and just recently whether or not Jesus was and is actually manifest in the bread and the wine and should be made into idols of worship for religious practices, or that He was only speaking of them as an allegory representation that they might understand that we need to partake with Jesus to be saved.

Likewise, one does not reenter the womb to be born again. Or do you believe that He meant that literally too? (Rhetorical, no need to answer).

This IS my body. You MUST eat my body and drink my blood....never mind. You have already rejected His teaching. If He can't convince you, I won't.

John 6:66

Mary

 

[Marymog]

We are not talking about what to do for salvation, i.e., believe, repent, etc.. We are talking about baptism, and just recently whether or not Jesus was and is actually manifest in the bread and the wine and should be made into idols of worship for religious practices, or that He was only speaking of them as an allegory representation that they might understand that we need to partake with Jesus to be saved.

Likewise, one does not reenter the womb to be born again. Or do you believe that He meant that literally too? (Rhetorical, no need to answer)

Dear Scott,

I have received from the Lord that which I deliver unto you. On the night in which he was betrayed took bread and said, Take, eat: this IS my body....this do in remembrance of me.....For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do proclaim the Lord's death till he come.

My friend Scott, how often do you do it in remembrance of Him and proclaim his death? Do you observe all things that He commanded you? Why do you Scott practice the 500 year tradition of men instead of the words of Jesus and 2,000 years of Christian practice?

If it was "an allegory representation" then why did the Christians that walked and talked with the Apostles practice and preach completely opposite of what you practice and preach? Read the Didache Scott for some reference.

Do you at least practice this "symbol" Scott?????

Patient Mary

 

[ScottA]

Dear Scott,

I have received from the Lord that which I deliver unto you. On the night in which he was betrayed took bread and said, Take, eat: this IS my body....this do in remembrance of me.....For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do proclaim the Lord's death till he come.

My friend Scott, how often do you do it in remembrance of Him and proclaim his death? Do you observe all things that He commanded you? Why do you Scott practice the 500 year tradition of men instead of the words of Jesus and 2,000 years of Christian practice?

If it was "an allegory representation" then why did the Christians that walked and talked with the Apostles practice and preach completely opposite of what you practice and preach? Read the Didache Scott for some reference.

Do you at least practice this "symbol" Scott?????

Patient Mary

Mary, you are ranting things of he church and of men, even Catholic nonsense and not the spirit, and do not understand what you are reading. You are taking the scriptures literally when Christ said His words are spirit, and Paul explained that they must be discerned spiritually.

And the apostles...? Jesus had to back down Peter, calling him Satan, then Peter denied Him three times.

And the Church...? 5 out of the 7 mentioned in Revelation were already off track in the first century.

But don't worry about me. What did He say "As often as you do it...?" ...That is how often I do it.

 

[amadeus]

Dear, Dear, Dear Amadeus. In no way, shape, form or alternative universe does 1 Corinthians that you quoted have ANYTHING to do with charity. Since that is a FACT then that makes your "context" a twisting of scripture. If you can't see that then you have had your ears tickled beyond belief.

Jesus did exhibit charity.....but 1 Corinthians has nothing to do with charity like you seem to believe. It has to do with love.

Would you like to share a passage where He did exhibit charity?

Patient Mary

Since @Jane_Doe22 liked your post maybe she can help you out of this hole you have dug yourself into

For you it may look like a hole, but not for me. To me it looks like a blindness on your part. I know that you see me as blind, but you have showed me nothing that changes my vision of God and the things of God. I am still climbing the mountain and Jesus has me by the hand. leading me upward toward the Father.

Give God the glory! Praise His name!

 

[Marymog]

Mary, you are ranting things of he church and of men, even Catholic nonsense and not the spirit, and do not understand what you are reading. You are taking the scriptures literally when Christ said His words are spirit, and Paul explained that they must be discerned spiritually.

And the apostles...? Jesus had to back down Peter, calling him Satan, then Peter denied Him three times.

And the Church...? 5 out of the 7 mentioned in Revelation were already off track in the first century.

But don't worry about me. What did He say "As often as you do it...?" ...That is how often I do it.

Oh goodness.....ranting. Really.....I am ranting? What you call "ranting" is 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 You don't even recognize scripture when it is in front of you.

Scott, my friend, I must WARN you, that whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner WILL be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. When you PRETEND it is not is body and blood when He said it IS his body and blood your PRETENDING is not worthy of Him and his words.

Soooo Scott, when was the last time you practiced this "symbol"? How often do you pretend it is the body and blood of Christ?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

For you it may look like a hole, but not for me. To me it looks like a blindness on your part. I know that you see me as blind, but you have showed me nothing that changes my vision of God and the things of God. I am still climbing the mountain and Jesus has me by the hand. leading me upward toward the Father.

Give God the glory! Praise His name!

No dear friend. I do not see you as blind for at one time you saw the Truth, however, you rejected it. For this I am sad. You are falling off a mountain and you don't even know it.

Sad Mary

 

[amadeus]

No dear friend. I do not see you as blind for at one time you saw the Truth, however, you rejected it. For this I am sad. You are falling off a mountain and you don't even know it.

Sad Mary

Of course, you already know that we disagree on this. Let us part for now without animosity.
Give God the glory!

 

[ScottA]

Scott, my friend, I must WARN you, that whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner WILL be guilty concerning the body and blood of the Lord. When you PRETEND it is not is body and blood when He said it IS his body and blood your PRETENDING is not worthy of Him and his words.

Soooo Scott, when was the last time you practiced this "symbol"? How often do you pretend it is the body and blood of Christ?

You must not be paying attention. I answered your question already.

As for the warning...that is also my warning to you, because it is not I who am pretending that Christ is the bread and wine, but you are. That is what is meant by an unworthy manner. To not receive Christ's word in spirit, is what is unworthy.

But, just so we understand the fullness of what has been given: Christ gave the word, which is spirit, and therefore it should be understood and received in spirit. But the practice alone (which seems to be all that you have received) is not kept for the person doing the practice, because there is no power in the practice. But rather, the practice is to be kept to teach babes in Christ the parable of the power in Christ to save, which is not in the elements, but in spirit. Christ is a life-giving spirit. The elements are the object of the parable, but not the subject. It is Christ rather, that is the subject. Thus, by keeping the practice we freely give what was freely given to us.

The same is true of water baptism. The power is not in the water, but it is instead a parable of the power of the Holy Spirit baptism performed by Christ. Which means that water baptism was not given for our salvation, but for instruction.

 

[BreadOfLife]

,but when you're disobedient God's discipline and sanctification comes upon you, right?

1 Thess 5 Do not quench the Spirit. 20Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22reject every kind of evil.

23May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.

This does NOT mean that God forces anything on us.
It simply speaks to what is AVAILABLE to us.

 

[Heb 13:8]

This does NOT mean that God forces anything on us.
It simply speaks to what is AVAILABLE to us.

That's right. God is love, and He loves us to redemption, Eph 1:13-14.

 

[Marymog]

You must not be paying attention. I answered your question already.

As for the warning...that is also my warning to you, because it is not I who am pretending that Christ is the bread and wine, but you are. That is what is meant by an unworthy manner. To not receive Christ's word in spirit, is what is unworthy.

But, just so we understand the fullness of what has been given: Christ gave the word, which is spirit, and therefore it should be understood and received in spirit. But the practice alone (which seems to be all that you have received) is not kept for the person doing the practice, because there is no power in the practice. But rather, the practice is to be kept to teach babes in Christ the parable of the power in Christ to save, which is not in the elements, but in spirit. Christ is a life-giving spirit. The elements are the object of the parable, but not the subject. It is Christ rather, that is the subject. Thus, by keeping the practice we freely give what was freely given to us.

The same is true of water baptism. The power is not in the water, but it is instead a parable of the power of the Holy Spirit baptism performed by Christ. Which means that water baptism was not given for our salvation, but for instruction.

Dear Scott. That was not my warning. It was a warning from the Apostle Paul. Do you not recognize Scripture when you see it?

I never said that water has power..... If I did, PLEASE quote me.

Mary

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's right. God is love, and He loves us to redemption, Eph 1:13-14.

Absolutely.
Like I said - He just doesn't FORCE it on us.

He is not a Cosmic Rapist that forces is love on people.
The choice is ALWAYS ours . . .

 

[Heb 13:8]

Absolutely.
Like I said - He just doesn't FORCE it on us.

He is not a Cosmic Rapist that forces is love on people.
The choice is ALWAYS ours . . .

That's right, he's not. He is love. The choice is ours to be disobedient yes, but..many hear, but do not receive the free gift.

And you have forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons:

“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,

or lose heart when He rebukes you.

6For the Lord disciplines the one He loves,

and He chastises everyone He receives as a son.

 

[ScottA]

Dear Scott. That was not my warning. It was a warning from the Apostle Paul. Do you not recognize Scripture when you see it?

I never said that water has power..... If I did, PLEASE quote me.

Mary

Your attitude is not appreciated, nor does it show the love of Christ.

As I pointed out... "It is not I who am pretending that Christ is the bread and wine, but you are." Thus, the warning is for you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Mary, I have asked you the question "in your opinion/beliefs, how should are person who believes some false tenets be treated?" half a dozen different ways now. You have not answered it again and again. And yes, I find Catholicism to be a church that believes some false tenets.

I advocate that people whom believe false tenets should be treated with respect still (which includes their beliefs). Hence my respect of Catholic people and their beliefs, even though I find some of those beliefs to be false.

Thus far, you seem to be of the opinion that respecting someone's less-than-completely-true-beliefs is wrong and sinful. Therefore, by your logic my respecting of Catholicism and Catholic individuals is sinful and should be repented of.

If this is not your view, I welcome you to clarify it now. But until then, that's the impression I have.

Hi JD,
Just came across this...
I don't know if @Marymog has replied, but I will.

It would be interesting to know what you mean by a false tenet before answering, but I'll take my chances.

The CC believes that it holds the entire truth because of Apostolic Succession. If we want to be intellectually honest, we have to accept that if we go backwards in time, we come to the Early Church theologians (or Fathers) and they were taught by the Apostles, or someone the Apostles knew. Since this has been passed down, the CC believes it is the pillar of truth.

Some doctrine did evolve in time, but the church is very much trusted by Catholics.
They are required to accept dogma and encouraged to accept doctrine. If they don't accept dogma, then they pray about it -- for understanding, I mean.

This has kept the CC together for 2,000 years...something I cannot say about the Protestant church with all its denominations, to say nothing of independent churches with their own doctrine.

If a church believes it has the ENTIRE truth, then by default it believes others don't. However, I do know for sure that it teaches respect of all religions and persons. If this is not shown by any individual, he is going against church teaching.

I hope this answers your question...