Before Abraham Existed I AM

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Pierac

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My best guess is it is the IGNORE BUTTON . I whiffed it too my friend . I whiffed it as well . Folks are talking themselves into
anything that denies the diety of Christ in these final days . As for me , I shall indeed push the IGNORE that doctrine button real fast as well .

I could see how getting the smell of your spiritual pride..... getting handed to you would sux! So your play book is to.... IGNORE than let others know you don't know how to respond....

Your problem is.... Many will see your lack of response.... How well will that bode for you at the judgment seat of the Christ....

Silly Child...you know not whom post here... I AM... A messenger.... do the Math amigo
Paul
 

theefaith

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My best guess is it is the IGNORE BUTTON . I whiffed it too my friend . I whiffed it as well . Folks are talking themselves into
anything that denies the diety of Christ in these final days . As for me , I shall indeed push the IGNORE that doctrine button real fast as well .

Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Paul was a servant of Jesus Christ who is God! Acts 9:16


Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

thy saints? Saint of Jesus Christ the most high God!


His angels? Only God has angels!

Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Lk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior!

Jesus is God!


Jesus is Lord!
Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Why say God the father?
If only the father is God, why not say simply to the glory of the father or simply to the glory of God!
 

Pierac

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Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Paul was a servant of Jesus Christ who is God! Acts 9:16


Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

thy saints? Saint of Jesus Christ the most high God!


His angels? Only God has angels!

Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Lk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior!

Jesus is God!


Jesus is Lord!
Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Why say God the father?
If only the father is God, why not say simply to the glory of the father or simply to the glory of God!


Great... We now agree... Jesus is lord... the Messiah... the coming King! And Jesus will reign as our King for 1000 years.... Then Jesus will hand over the kingdom to His GOD... Wait.... you did not see this coming did you.....

1Co 15:25 For He (Jesus) must reign until He (Jesus) has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For HE (Jesus)HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He (Jesus) is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son (Jesus) Himself also will be subjected to the One (GOD) who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Keep posting... I need the material
Paul
 

theefaith

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Thank you for pointing this out....
Mat 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels G32 with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

G32
ἄγγελος
ággelos; gen. aggélou, masc. noun. Messenger, one sent to announce or proclaim.
(I) A messenger, one who is sent in order to announce, teach, perform, or explore anything (Mat_11:10; Luk_7:24; Luk_9:52; Gal_4:14; Jam_2:25; Sept.: Jos_6:17; Mal_2:7). In 1Co_11:10, aggélous, acc. pl., is interpreted variably as spies or angels, good or evil, even demons. The angels of the seven churches are probably the bishops or pastors of those churches, the delegates or messengers of the churches of God (Rev_1:20; Rev_2:1, Rev_2:8, Rev_2:12, Rev_2:18; Rev_3:1, Rev_3:7, Rev_3:14). Heb_13:2 may have reference to itinerate preachers rather than angels.
(II) An angel, a celestial messenger, a being superior to man. God is represented as surrounded by a host of beings of a higher order than man. These He uses as His messengers and agents in administering the affairs of the world and in promoting the welfare of humans (Mat_1:20; Mat_18:10; Mat_22:30; Act_7:30). As to the numbers of the angels, see Heb_12:22; Rev_5:11. See archággelos (G743), archangel. In 2Pe_2:4; Jud_1:6, some of the angels that sinned are said to have been cast down to hell. They are called the angels of the devil or Satan (Mat_25:41; 2Co_12:7; Rev_12:9). In Rev_9:11, the angel of the bottomless pit is the destroying angel Abaddṓn (G3), Abaddon.
Deriv.: aggelía (G31), message; archággelos (G743), archangel; isággelos (G2465), like or equal to an angel.
Syn.: apóstolos (G652), apostle, messenger.

Angels.... are not God... and neither was Jesus... Yet... they Both have the same roll in Gods plan....

Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He (God) appointed heir of all things, through (dia... on account of...) whom also He (God) made the world.

I AM... going to show you how Jesus confirms what I just said... Pay attention...

Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Mat 19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that he (God) who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

Mark 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be.

According to Jesus himself the creator of ALL was .... Read above.... Do the Math... Think for yourself....


Really... Even Jesus tells you the truth and you call Him a liar......

Jesus calls himself "a man" (John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. and the apostles call him "a man" (Acts 2: 22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Jesus is constantly
contrasted with and distinguished from God, his Father.


Oh Yee of little theefaith...
The other Paul...

in his humanity

there are two natures two wills in one person of Christ

the divinity of Christ and the trinity are revealed defined Christian doctrines to reject them is to reject Christ and his church and salvation

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5
 

theefaith

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Thank you for pointing this out....
Mat 24:31 "And He will send forth His angels G32 with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

G32
ἄγγελος
ággelos; gen. aggélou, masc. noun. Messenger, one sent to announce or proclaim.
(I) A messenger, one who is sent in order to announce, teach, perform, or explore anything (Mat_11:10; Luk_7:24; Luk_9:52; Gal_4:14; Jam_2:25; Sept.: Jos_6:17; Mal_2:7). In 1Co_11:10, aggélous, acc. pl., is interpreted variably as spies or angels, good or evil, even demons. The angels of the seven churches are probably the bishops or pastors of those churches, the delegates or messengers of the churches of God (Rev_1:20; Rev_2:1, Rev_2:8, Rev_2:12, Rev_2:18; Rev_3:1, Rev_3:7, Rev_3:14). Heb_13:2 may have reference to itinerate preachers rather than angels.
(II) An angel, a celestial messenger, a being superior to man. God is represented as surrounded by a host of beings of a higher order than man. These He uses as His messengers and agents in administering the affairs of the world and in promoting the welfare of humans (Mat_1:20; Mat_18:10; Mat_22:30; Act_7:30). As to the numbers of the angels, see Heb_12:22; Rev_5:11. See archággelos (G743), archangel. In 2Pe_2:4; Jud_1:6, some of the angels that sinned are said to have been cast down to hell. They are called the angels of the devil or Satan (Mat_25:41; 2Co_12:7; Rev_12:9). In Rev_9:11, the angel of the bottomless pit is the destroying angel Abaddṓn (G3), Abaddon.
Deriv.: aggelía (G31), message; archággelos (G743), archangel; isággelos (G2465), like or equal to an angel.
Syn.: apóstolos (G652), apostle, messenger.

Angels.... are not God... and neither was Jesus... Yet... they Both have the same roll in Gods plan....

Heb 1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He (God) appointed heir of all things, through (dia... on account of...) whom also He (God) made the world.

I AM... going to show you how Jesus confirms what I just said... Pay attention...

Joh 12:49 "For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

Mat 19:4 He answered, "Have you not read that he (God) who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

Mark 13:19 For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation that God created until now, and never will be.

According to Jesus himself the creator of ALL was .... Read above.... Do the Math... Think for yourself....


Really... Even Jesus tells you the truth and you call Him a liar......

Jesus calls himself "a man" (John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. and the apostles call him "a man" (Acts 2: 22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. Jesus is constantly
contrasted with and distinguished from God, his Father.


Oh Yee of little theefaith...
The other Paul...

in his humanity

there are two natures and two wills in the one person of Christ

The divinity of Christ and the trinity are revealed Christian doctrine so you’re not Christian!

Truth must be revealed by God, and in its fullness in the sacred deposit of faith by Christ to his church! Eph 4:5 Jude 1:3 and must be taught by the church, or proposed for our belief by the apostles!
Matt 28:19-20 Lk 1:4 Jn 20:21 acts 8:31 Rom 1:5 col 2:7 1 Tim 3:15
matt 18:17

Christ and His church are one! acts 9:4 Acts 5:32 Jn 15:1-5
 

Pierac

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Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Paul was a servant of Jesus Christ who is God! Acts 9:16


Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

thy saints? Saint of Jesus Christ the most high God!


His angels? Only God has angels!

Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


Lk 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

Lk 1:47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior!

Jesus is God!


Jesus is Lord!
Philippians 2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Why say God the father?
If only the father is God, why not say simply to the glory of the father or simply to the glory of God!


So at the judgment seat of the Christ this is what You and amigo de christo are going to say?

Your going to tell Jesus... he was a liar when He preached he was a Man whom heard from God????

(John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Are you two going to say that Peter was a Fool teaching at Pentecost?

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know

You going to tell Paul that the risen Jesus is not a Man... but God ???

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

I'm trying to help you... pay attention....

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of heaven — only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

You keep using the word Lord... over and over as if it makes Jesus God.... Perhaps Jesus saw these post in the future? Could He be talking about you guys??? Who knows...?

You keep focusing on the title Lord ..
.

Luk 6:46 "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do what I tell you?

Is Jesus talking to you two??? I don't know.... Maybe I'm just seeing crazy things...
Peace,
Paul
 

theefaith

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Great... We now agree... Jesus is lord... the Messiah... the coming King! And Jesus will reign as our King for 1000 years.... Then Jesus will hand over the kingdom to His GOD... Wait.... you did not see this coming did you.....

1Co 15:25 For He (Jesus) must reign until He (Jesus) has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27 For HE (Jesus)HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He (Jesus) is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son (Jesus) Himself also will be subjected to the One (GOD) who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

Keep posting... I need the material
Paul

Jesus is king! Mary is queen!

The kingdom is the church the new covenant and holy mother church and came 2000 yrs ago

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Christ the king!

The king of kings!

Christ is King of Glory!

Kingdom established by God!
Isa 2:2
Dan 2: 44
Micah 4:1

One, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic! And all nations and all people shall flow into it! All must submit and obey the king of glory!

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Gal 4: 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(Holy mother church)
 

Pierac

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Jesus is king! Mary is queen!

The kingdom is the church the new covenant and holy mother church and came 2000 yrs ago

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.


Christ the king!

The king of kings!

Christ is King of Glory!

Kingdom established by God!
Isa 2:2
Dan 2: 44
Micah 4:1

One, holy, catholic, (universal) and apostolic! And all nations and all people shall flow into it! All must submit and obey the king of glory!

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

1 Peter 2:9
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Gal 4: 22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(Holy mother church)

OK... Jesus is King... Mary is Queen... Got it!

I don't think I can help you... You really have 16,000 post? WOW!!!

Uhmmm.... Tom Cruise has a new move out now...

Paul
 

theefaith

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So at the judgment seat of the Christ this is what You and amigo de christo are going to say?

Your going to tell Jesus... he was a liar when He preached he was a Man whom heard from God????

(John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Are you two going to say that Peter was a Fool teaching at Pentecost?

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know

You going to tell Paul that the risen Jesus is not a Man... but God ???

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

I'm trying to help you... pay attention....

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of heaven — only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

You keep using the word Lord... over and over as if it makes Jesus God.... Perhaps Jesus saw these post in the future? Could He be talking about you guys??? Who knows...?

You keep focusing on the title Lord ..
.

Luk 6:46 "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do what I tell you?

Is Jesus talking to you two??? I don't know.... Maybe I'm just seeing crazy things...
Peace,
Paul

Only God can be all knowing and therefore the just judge!

Final judgement by Jesus Christ the eternal God!

acts 10:42
2 Tim 4:1
1 pet 4:5
 

theefaith

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So at the judgment seat of the Christ this is what You and amigo de christo are going to say?

Your going to tell Jesus... he was a liar when He preached he was a Man whom heard from God????

(John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do.

Are you two going to say that Peter was a Fool teaching at Pentecost?

Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know

You going to tell Paul that the risen Jesus is not a Man... but God ???

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

I'm trying to help you... pay attention....

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter into the kingdom of heaven — only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

You keep using the word Lord... over and over as if it makes Jesus God.... Perhaps Jesus saw these post in the future? Could He be talking about you guys??? Who knows...?

You keep focusing on the title Lord ..
.

Luk 6:46 "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and don't do what I tell you?

Is Jesus talking to you two??? I don't know.... Maybe I'm just seeing crazy things...
Peace,
Paul

two natures and two wills in one person
Fully divine
Fully human
 

theefaith

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OK... Jesus is King... Mary is Queen... Got it!

I don't think I can help you... You really have 16,000 post? WOW!!!

Uhmmm.... Tom Cruise has a new move out now...

Paul

you don’t think Jesus is king?

Matt 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Lk 1:32-33 king

the mother of the king in David’s line is queen!
 

Pierac

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two natures and two wills in one person
Fully divine

Fully human

Really two wills? Not according to Jesus...
Luk 22:42 saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

Here is another blanket statement of Scripture that proves Jesus did no more have a "free will" than anyone else does:

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, but what He sees the Father do: for what things so ever He does, these also does the Son likewise" (John 5:19).

Do you know of one Scripture that contradicts this verse in John 5:19? If you don’t then you must admit that Jesus could not do anything by a supposed "free will" which is said to have the ability to act independently of God.

But wait, there’s more:

Jesus plainly had a will, but the Father willed that Jesus would bring His will into line with that of His Father. The Father would not allow Jesus to give up the good fight of faith. It pleased God to bruise His Son for our salvation,

"Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief: When you shall make His soul an offering for sin…" (Isa. 53:10).

God said that He would "make" the soul of Jesus an offering for sin. God doing the "making" is the CAUSE. Therefore, Jesus was not free to run from the cross. God inspired Jesus [caused] Him to pray. And God caused Jesus to pray that His Father’s will, would be done, not His Own will. It was a real battle for a few hours. The will of Jesus cried out for another way other than to drink the cup and go to the cross. Hour after hour He poured out His heart to His Father. And hour after hour His Father propped Him up so that He would not and could not give in to His flesh.

God MADE Jesus go through that spiritual battle of His will, but never for a second was the plan of God in jeopardy! God had clearly prophesied the positive outcome of this battle hundreds of years before its actual occurrence. And absolutely nothing in the history of the universe has ever thwarted God’s plan, purpose or intention.

The Father inspired [caused, made] Jesus state time after time,
"Not My will but Thine, Not My will but Thine, NOT MY WILL BUT THINE"!!

It was the very words of His Father that Jesus prayed. Those words that came out of the mouth of Jesus first came out of the heart of His Father, and God’s Words never ever return to Him void.

"So shall My word be that goes forth out of My mouth [and into the mouth of Jesus]: it shall NOT RETURN UNTO ME [as when Jesus prayed back those same words to His Father] VOID, but it SHALL ACCOMPLISH that which I please, and IT SHALL PROSPER in the thing whereto I sent it" (Isa. 55:11).

Your argument is not with me, but with God and His Word.

I will show you from Scripture that the thoughts, words, works, and deeds of Jesus were only those things that came directly from His Father, not from some phantom "free will" of His own.

And so the very words that Jesus prayed that night in the garden were the very words of His Father, and the words of His Father of the purpose for which they were sent. But then again, "Lord, who has believed our report?"

When there is a conflict between wills regarding the bringing about of that which pleases God, whose will is it that will always win out? Is it possible for man’s will to thwart the will and intention of God? Does man possess such a God-defying power? Can man with his illusionary free will, will against and contrary to the predetermined plan and intention of God Almighty? No! No, he can’t. And yes, we do have a Scripture on that:

"For it is GOD which works in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

When our very own Lord cried out in agony to His Father because His flesh did not want to go through the crucifixion necessary because of the sin of the world, whose will prevailed?

"And He said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto you; take away this cup from Me: nevertheless not what I will, but what YOU WILL" And He comes and finds them sleeping…" "And again He went away and prayed, and spoke the same words. And when He returned, He found them asleep again…" "And He comes the third time…" (Mark 14:36-41).

Now then, what was the outcome of this heart-wrenching prayer and request of our Lord to His Father? Was the will of our Lord free to override the will of His Father? Or did not Jesus recognize that it was His Father’s will that would prevail and that His will was not free to think or do contrary to His Father’s intentions? Answer:

"And he came the third time, and said unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour IS COME; behold, the Son of man is betrayed [is being betrayed] into the hands of sinners… and when they had crucified Him…" (Mark 14:41 & 15:24).

Clearly: It "pleased" God to crucify Jesus, and it was God Who "worked in His Son both TO WILL and TO DO of His Father’s good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13). Where is free will in all this? It is debarred.

Maybe there be some who didn’t think Jesus made Himself clear when He said,

"The Son of man can DO NOTHING of Himself…"

Let’s try another one:

"I can of mine own self DO NOTHING: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the father which has sent Me" (John 5:30).

When God wants to emphasize something He often repeats it. If God gave all humanity a "free will," and it is a good thing to have a "free will," then why is it that not even our Lord trusted in such a gift from God? If Jesus had His own "free will," why did He trust only in the will of His Father? Maybe man’s will is not as "free" as theologians would like you to believe.

We have already read the Scriptural answer to this dilemma. The reason Jesus didn’t trust in His own free will is because Jesus didn’t have a free will to trust in. Jesus didn’t have the power to always will what is right by His own power or freedom of the will. Jesus trusted in the will of His Father, ONLY! Just whose will was it that took Jesus through ALL of His many trials and hardships? Was it His Own will? Jesus just told us that of His own self He could do nothing. He couldn’t have made it through life, SINLESS, without the mind and will of His Father in Him!

"For IT IS GOD which works IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO of HIS good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

By the time you finish this post you will either start to hate this verse in Phil. 2:13, or perchance you will for the first time, begin to believe it.

Jesus certainly wanted us to see the Truth of what He is telling us:

"For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine Own will, but the will of Him that sent me" (John 6:38).

It is hard to even imagine that thee (of little) faith will not get this point:

"Jesus said unto them, My meat is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM THAT SENT ME, and to finish His work" (John 4:34).

Jesus didn’t even speak His own words:

"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I DO NOTHING OF MYSELF: but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things" (John 8:28).

"For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave me commandment WHAT I should say, and WHAT I should speak" (John 12:49).

Not only did the Father do the speaking through His Son, but He also performed all of the works as well:

"Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works" (John 14:10).

If Jesus had a "free will," He sure didn’t use it very much:

"He that loves Me not keeps not My sayings: and the word which ye hear is NOT MINE, but the Father’s which sent Me" (John 14:24).

Could it be that you trust your OWN WILL living your life more than you would trust GOD’S WILL living your life?

SO... Theefaith.... Show me... two natures and two wills in one person
Fully divine... You speak as a spiritual infant... still on the milk of the word!!!

Every post you make... I show you how every wrong you are.... Keep posting... I need the material to show the truth for ALL... to see!
Paul
 
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Pierac

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Only God can be all knowing and therefore the just judge!

Final judgement by Jesus Christ the eternal God!

acts 10:42
2 Tim 4:1
1 pet 4:5

Yes.... only God can be all knowing...
The Doctrine of the Trinity claims that Jesus is God, and it is for this reason the doctrine claims that Jesus is thus omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient, equal in all ways to the Father. In this short post we will be discussing the latter, is Jesus omniscient? God is definitely omniscient, thus in order for the Doctrine of the Trinity to hold true, Jesus must also be omniscient. If he is not, then there must be something wrong with this doctrine. At the same time, if we find Jesus not to be omniscient then we also arrive at the conclusion that Jesus is not equal to the Father. If Jesus does not know one thing that the Father knows, then obviously he is not omniscient, and if he is not omniscient like the Father, then he is not equal to the Father either.

Yes Jesus did know somethings that show us he is way above the average man, this is because he is anointed (Messiah), not because he is God. The Prophets all received revelations from God, information that only God and that prophet knew, but this did not mean that the prophets were God. Jesus as we shall see also receives revelations from God, this is why he knows things that other men do not.

(Webster’s Dictionary) Omniscient - knowing all things-the Omniscient God-.

Mark 13:32: "No one knows the day or hour, not even the angels in Heaven nor the Son, but ONLY the Father."

This is a very conclusive statement. Jesus admits that he does not know the day or hour, and that ONLY the Father knows. This alone is enough to show us that Jesus is not omniscient.

Luke 8:45: "Jesus then asked, ‘Who touched me?"

This episode is about a woman who needs healing who touches Jesus in a crowd. Jesus responds by saying, "Who touched me?" It is obvious that he does not know who touched him. We cannot say that he knew but was just asking for whatever reason. This would be to speculate on a grand scale. It would be adding to what the Bible says. Just read the Bible. He did not know. He is not all knowing.

Revelation 1:1: "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what must happen soon."

Who received a revelation? Jesus Christ. Who gave it to him? GOD! God gave Jesus a revelation to show his servants what must happen soon. Vines Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words defines revelation as:

Revelation – The communication of the knowledge of God.

(Webster’s Dictionary) Revelation – God’s disclosure to humanity of Himself.

Jesus received a communication, a disclosure FROM GOD. God knew something that Jesus did not know. Again, Jesus is not omniscient.

John 12:49: "For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it."

In this verse the Father is showing Jesus how to say something. Why does Jesus need to be shown how to do or say anything if he is already all knowing. Not to mention the fact that the Father is commanding the Son. This is not equality.

Luke 2:52: "And Jesus advanced in wisdom and age and favor before God and man."

He advanced in what? Wisdom. He was advancing in the knowledge of God. Someone who is all knowing does not need to advance in anything, especially wisdom.

Matthew 4:1: "Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert."

Why does Jesus need to be led? He is supposed to be equal with the Holy Spirit. He should know everything that the Spirit knows, although it is obvious that he does not. He needed to be led.

Matthew 26:39: "He advanced a little and fell prostrate in prayer, saying, ‘My Father if it is possible, let this cup pass from me; yet, not as I will, but as you will".

I will not go in to more depth into the fact that Jesus’ will is not the same as the Father’s will, but do notice it.

Back to the original topic. Jesus knew that the cross awaited him and he wanted to see if there was any other way while still remaining in the will of God.

Jesus is asking the Father a question that he does not know the answer to. What does Jesus want to know? IF IT IS POSSIBLE? He does not know if it is. Someone who is asking another a question for which he does not have the answer to is not all knowing.

Conclusion – From the Scriptures above I do not see any way in which someone can conclude that Jesus is omniscient. Jesus knew many things, but he also did not know many things. This is not what being omniscient means. It means knowing EVERYTHING. Jesus is not omniscient and thus he is not equal to God. Who is Jesus then? Jesus is The Messiah, The Anointed one of God. This is what Messiah means, Anointed. The Messiah was never supposed to be God, he is supposed to be a man anointed by God’s Spirit. In order to understand who Jesus is we must first come to a good understanding of what Jesus’ most important title of Messiah means in depth. After all, he is Jesus the Christ (Messiah).


Keep posting thee(of little)faith,
Your giving me so much data... to expose your following the traditions of men!
Paul
 

amigo de christo

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Christ and the church he founded are inseparable!

you have a very strange anarchy to accept the king but reject the kingdom He established???
EVEN PETER HIMSELF , CHRIST HIMSELF would have rejected the abomination of the CC .
You are the one in grave danger . YOU heed men , NOT GOD , NOT CHRIST and NOT the first apostels .
You heed men . PEROID .
Till you seek GOD for your own self, You are only in danger .
I say again , JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF would have warned against the CC
PETER HIMSELF would have warned against the CC
MARY herself would have warned agaisnt the CC
any lamb of CHRIST would warn against it too . LEARN the truth in the bible for yourself .
Would you like to know what your problem has been all along .
You came to a mindset . THEN you learnd the TRUTH through your own perceptoin of what YOU thought TRUTH WAS .
You aint alone the CC has done this from her birth .
Peter would rebuke your church
Paul would rebuke your church
Mary would have had you to flee it
THEY FOLLOWED CHRIST . That is why they would have warned you to flee such a place .
The devil can make many claims . He too has done so through men of all ages .
Everyone thinking their church , their leader and leaders WERE THE ONE TRUE CHURCH
and yet they contradicted the ONE TRUE CHURCH when they sat under men
who taught things contrary to GOD , TO CHRIST , to the very apostles WHOM THEY CLIAM THEY SIT UNDER .
Wake up thee faith and do so quickly . I am writing very direct to you , cause i DO LOVE YOU and
i am doing all to help you . LEAVE that place and learn the JESUS you claim you know
LEARN the doctrine of peter , WHOM YE CLAIM YOU KNOW
learn that bible and do it FOR YOURSELF and not through the lens of the CC .
 

theefaith

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Really two wills? Not according to Jesus...
Luk 22:42 saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done."

Here is another blanket statement of Scripture that proves Jesus did no more have a "free will" than anyone else does:

"Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, but what He sees the Father do: for what things so ever He does, these also does the Son likewise" (John 5:19).

Do you know of one Scripture that contradicts this verse in John 5:19? If you don’t then you must admit that Jesus could not do anything by a supposed "free will" which is said to have the ability to act independently of God.

But wait, there’s more:

Jesus plainly had a will, but the Father willed that Jesus would bring His will into line with that of His Father. The Father would not allow Jesus to give up the good fight of faith. It pleased God to bruise His Son for our salvation,

"Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief: When you shall make His soul an offering for sin…" (Isa. 53:10).

God said that He would "make" the soul of Jesus an offering for sin. God doing the "making" is the CAUSE. Therefore, Jesus was not free to run from the cross. God inspired Jesus [caused] Him to pray. And God caused Jesus to pray that His Father’s will, would be done, not His Own will. It was a real battle for a few hours. The will of Jesus cried out for another way other than to drink the cup and go to the cross. Hour after hour He poured out His heart to His Father. And hour after hour His Father propped Him up so that He would not and could not give in to His flesh.

God MADE Jesus go through that spiritual battle of His will, but never for a second was the plan of God in jeopardy! God had clearly prophesied the positive outcome of this battle hundreds of years before its actual occurrence. And absolutely nothing in the history of the universe has ever thwarted God’s plan, purpose or intention.

The Father inspired [caused, made] Jesus state time after time,
"Not My will but Thine, Not My will but Thine, NOT MY WILL BUT THINE"!!

It was the very words of His Father that Jesus prayed. Those words that came out of the mouth of Jesus first came out of the heart of His Father, and God’s Words never ever return to Him void.

"So shall My word be that goes forth out of My mouth [and into the mouth of Jesus]: it shall NOT RETURN UNTO ME [as when Jesus prayed back those same words to His Father] VOID, but it SHALL ACCOMPLISH that which I please, and IT SHALL PROSPER in the thing whereto I sent it" (Isa. 55:11).

Your argument is not with me, but with God and His Word.

I will show you from Scripture that the thoughts, words, works, and deeds of Jesus were only those things that came directly from His Father, not from some phantom "free will" of His own.

And so the very words that Jesus prayed that night in the garden were the very words of His Father, and the words of His Father of the purpose for which they were sent. But then again, "Lord, who has believed our report?"

When there is a conflict between wills regarding the bringing about of that which pleases God, whose will is it that will always win out? Is it possible for man’s will to thwart the will and intention of God? Does man possess such a God-defying power? Can man with his illusionary free will, will against and contrary to the predetermined plan and intention of God Almighty? No! No, he can’t. And yes, we do have a Scripture on that:

"For it is GOD which works in you both TO WILL and TO DO of His good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

When our very own Lord cried out in agony to His Father because His flesh did not want to go through the crucifixion necessary because of the sin of the world, whose will prevailed?

"And He said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto you; take away this cup from Me: nevertheless not what I will, but what YOU WILL" And He comes and finds them sleeping…" "And again He went away and prayed, and spoke the same words. And when He returned, He found them asleep again…" "And He comes the third time…" (Mark 14:36-41).

Now then, what was the outcome of this heart-wrenching prayer and request of our Lord to His Father? Was the will of our Lord free to override the will of His Father? Or did not Jesus recognize that it was His Father’s will that would prevail and that His will was not free to think or do contrary to His Father’s intentions? Answer:

"And he came the third time, and said unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour IS COME; behold, the Son of man is betrayed [is being betrayed] into the hands of sinners… and when they had crucified Him…" (Mark 14:41 & 15:24).

Clearly: It "pleased" God to crucify Jesus, and it was God Who "worked in His Son both TO WILL and TO DO of His Father’s good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13). Where is free will in all this? It is debarred.

Maybe there be some who didn’t think Jesus made Himself clear when He said,

"The Son of man can DO NOTHING of Himself…"

Let’s try another one:

"I can of mine own self DO NOTHING: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the father which has sent Me" (John 5:30).

When God wants to emphasize something He often repeats it. If God gave all humanity a "free will," and it is a good thing to have a "free will," then why is it that not even our Lord trusted in such a gift from God? If Jesus had His own "free will," why did He trust only in the will of His Father? Maybe man’s will is not as "free" as theologians would like you to believe.

We have already read the Scriptural answer to this dilemma. The reason Jesus didn’t trust in His own free will is because Jesus didn’t have a free will to trust in. Jesus didn’t have the power to always will what is right by His own power or freedom of the will. Jesus trusted in the will of His Father, ONLY! Just whose will was it that took Jesus through ALL of His many trials and hardships? Was it His Own will? Jesus just told us that of His own self He could do nothing. He couldn’t have made it through life, SINLESS, without the mind and will of His Father in Him!

"For IT IS GOD which works IN YOU both TO WILL and TO DO of HIS good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).

By the time you finish this post you will either start to hate this verse in Phil. 2:13, or perchance you will for the first time, begin to believe it.

Jesus certainly wanted us to see the Truth of what He is telling us:

"For I came down from heaven, not to do Mine Own will, but the will of Him that sent me" (John 6:38).

It is hard to even imagine that thee (of little) faith will not get this point:

"Jesus said unto them, My meat is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM THAT SENT ME, and to finish His work" (John 4:34).

Jesus didn’t even speak His own words:

"Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I DO NOTHING OF MYSELF: but as My Father has taught Me, I speak these things" (John 8:28).

"For I have not spoken of Myself; but the Father which sent Me, He gave me commandment WHAT I should say, and WHAT I should speak" (John 12:49).

Not only did the Father do the speaking through His Son, but He also performed all of the works as well:

"Believe you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you, I speak not of myself, but the Father that dwells in Me, He does the works" (John 14:10).

If Jesus had a "free will," He sure didn’t use it very much:

"He that loves Me not keeps not My sayings: and the word which ye hear is NOT MINE, but the Father’s which sent Me" (John 14:24).

Could it be that you trust your OWN WILL living your life more than you would trust GOD’S WILL living your life?

SO... Theefaith.... Show me... two natures and two wills in one person
Fully divine... You speak as a spiritual infant... still on the milk of the word!!!

Every post you make... I show you how every wrong you are.... Keep posting... I need the material to show the truth for ALL... to see!
Paul

He came to subject his human will to the father for our salvation
 

theefaith

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EVEN PETER HIMSELF , CHRIST HIMSELF would have rejected the abomination of the CC .
You are the one in grave danger . YOU heed men , NOT GOD , NOT CHRIST and NOT the first apostels .
You heed men . PEROID .
Till you seek GOD for your own self, You are only in danger .
I say again , JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF would have warned against the CC
PETER HIMSELF would have warned against the CC
MARY herself would have warned agaisnt the CC
any lamb of CHRIST would warn against it too . LEARN the truth in the bible for yourself .
Would you like to know what your problem has been all along .
You came to a mindset . THEN you learnd the TRUTH through your own perceptoin of what YOU thought TRUTH WAS .
You aint alone the CC has done this from her birth .
Peter would rebuke your church
Paul would rebuke your church
Mary would have had you to flee it
THEY FOLLOWED CHRIST . That is why they would have warned you to flee such a place .
The devil can make many claims . He too has done so through men of all ages .
Everyone thinking their church , their leader and leaders WERE THE ONE TRUE CHURCH
and yet they contradicted the ONE TRUE CHURCH when they sat under men
who taught things contrary to GOD , TO CHRIST , to the very apostles WHOM THEY CLIAM THEY SIT UNDER .
Wake up thee faith and do so quickly . I am writing very direct to you , cause i DO LOVE YOU and
i am doing all to help you . LEAVE that place and learn the JESUS you claim you know
LEARN the doctrine of peter , WHOM YE CLAIM YOU KNOW
learn that bible and do it FOR YOURSELF and not through the lens of the CC .

the church is governed by men!
The witnesses of Christ

Acts 1:8 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The apostles must have successors!

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
 

theefaith

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EVEN PETER HIMSELF , CHRIST HIMSELF would have rejected the abomination of the CC .
You are the one in grave danger . YOU heed men , NOT GOD , NOT CHRIST and NOT the first apostels .
You heed men . PEROID .
Till you seek GOD for your own self, You are only in danger .
I say again , JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF would have warned against the CC
PETER HIMSELF would have warned against the CC
MARY herself would have warned agaisnt the CC
any lamb of CHRIST would warn against it too . LEARN the truth in the bible for yourself .
Would you like to know what your problem has been all along .
You came to a mindset . THEN you learnd the TRUTH through your own perceptoin of what YOU thought TRUTH WAS .
You aint alone the CC has done this from her birth .
Peter would rebuke your church
Paul would rebuke your church
Mary would have had you to flee it
THEY FOLLOWED CHRIST . That is why they would have warned you to flee such a place .
The devil can make many claims . He too has done so through men of all ages .
Everyone thinking their church , their leader and leaders WERE THE ONE TRUE CHURCH
and yet they contradicted the ONE TRUE CHURCH when they sat under men
who taught things contrary to GOD , TO CHRIST , to the very apostles WHOM THEY CLIAM THEY SIT UNDER .
Wake up thee faith and do so quickly . I am writing very direct to you , cause i DO LOVE YOU and
i am doing all to help you . LEAVE that place and learn the JESUS you claim you know
LEARN the doctrine of peter , WHOM YE CLAIM YOU KNOW
learn that bible and do it FOR YOURSELF and not through the lens of the CC .


Apostolic authority!
God sent them apostles to teach them the truth revealed by Christ!
Philip an apostle acts 8
Peter an apostle acts 10


Jn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Acts 22:15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.


There is a big difference between the people, and the priesthood of Christ and the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

The apostles have authority to forgive sins. Jn 20:23

Apostles are the light of the world!
The church is an extension of Christ in time and space. Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

God established order and peace and knowledge of truth in a hierarchical authority of Peter and the apostles!

There is a hierarchical authority in all that God has ordained!

The angelic kingdom!
The civil kingdom!
The church kingdom!
The family!

All are ordered with hierarchical and jurisdictional authority!
 

Pierac

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He came to subject his human will to the father for our salvation

Not sure.... what your saying? Given that YOU believe Jesus is God... Then I'm confused as How the Father of Jesus in YOUR belief is not also Human? As you believe they are 3 in one.... the same being! Thus according to your post the Father is also a man??

Let me Help you...

On the authority of Jesus himself we know that the categories of "flesh" and "spirit" are never to be confused or intermingled, though the course of God's Spirit can impact our world. Jesus said, "That which is born of flesh is flesh (Jesus is of the Flesh!), and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit" (John 3:6). And "God is Spirit." The doctrine of the incarnation confuses these categories. What God has separated you and man has joined together! One of the charges that the apostle Paul levels at simple man is that we have "exchange the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man" (Romans 1:23). Has it ever dawned on you as you sit in church listening to how the glorious Creator made Himself into a man that we could be guilty of this very same thing? The doctrine of the incarnation has reduced the incorruptible God to our own corruptible image. We are made in God's image, not the other way around. It would be more appropriate to put this contrast in starker terms. The defining characteristic of the Creator God is his absolute holiness. God is utterly different from and so utterly transcendent over His creation that any confusion is forbidden!

Try harder thee of little Faith,
Paul