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Featured Believers need to understand the Truth

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Zachary, Jul 15, 2019.

  1. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    Heads up! … Pastors have several different reasons for
    NOT telling the sheep what they desperately need to hear.


    The NT words “belief” and “faith” are very inadequate!
    Because of what the whole of the NT teaches,
    it is obvious that one word is completely insufficient
    to describe what “belief” and “faith” really mean!
    The NT clearly teaches us that simply believing and
    having faith is NOT nearly enough to attain salvation.


    We know that a mere intellectual belief in Jesus and
    the gospel will NOT save anyone … but also, is merely
    a deep heart-felt belief really enough to save anyone?


    Initially

    When believers first receive the Holy Spirit through
    God’s free gift of mercy/grace, they receive everything:
    reconciliation, justification, righteousness, (positional)
    sanctification, holiness, salvation … everything!


    But, after initially being born-again

    Our free-will co-operation with the Holy Spirit is critically
    important during our (continuing) sanctification … as He
    tries to sanctify us unto holiness, “for without holiness
    no one will see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14).


    We read in the NT that believers are tested to prove
    their faith is genuine. Our initial salvation is a free gift,
    but we see a lot of warnings in the NT that IF our righteous
    standing (i.e. salvation) is NOT maintained, it can be lost.


    So, let’s not focus on our initial receiving of salvation;
    instead let’s focus on the end of our salvation process!


    JUSTIFICATION is about taking Jesus as SAVIOR.
    SANCTIFICATION is about making Jesus LORD.
    Have you been told that BOTH are required for salvation?


    If Jesus is our SAVIOR, then we need to treat Him as our LORD!
    Paul and Peter both called Him several times, Savior and LORD”.
    If Jesus is LORD, then we need to love and obey Him.
    Indeed, He said 4 times: “Those who love Me will
    obey My commandments.” (John 14:15, 21, 23, 24).

    And, “Those who are My friends will
    obey My commandments.” (John 15:14).

    Does anyone get to heaven who does NOT love Jesus,
    who is NOT His friend, and who does NOT obey His commands?


    Many Scriptures are very clear … obedience is NOT an option!

    Pastors are responsible for WARNING the sheep about sin!
    They need to teach us, for example:
    ● “God has called us to live holy lives, not impure lives.
    Therefore, anyone who refuses to live by these rules …
    is rejecting God” (1 Thessalonians 4:7-8)
    ● “It would be better if they had never known the way
    to righteousness than to know it, and then reject
    the command to live a holy life” (2 Peter 2:21)


    Many NT verses teach each of the following spiritual truths
    Believers prove true saving belief through obedience
    Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
    Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
    Believers faith must endure to the end of their lives
    Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
    Believers must come through as victorious overcomers
    .
     
  2. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hello Zachary,

    This brought 1Cor 9:24-27 to mind...

    Do you not know that the runners in the stadium all run in the race, but only one wins the prize? Run so as to win.

    Every athlete exercises discipline in every way. They do it to win a perishable crown, but we an imperishable one.

    Thus I do not run aimlessly; I do not fight as if I were shadowboxing.

    No, I drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.
     
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  3. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    What if we were to focus on the certainty of our salvation, and how that liberates us to live a godly life?
     
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  4. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    That would be a faith based on our own works, would it not?

    I am only righteous in Christ's righteousness. What righteousness I do is Christ in me. If it is just what I'm doing, well, we know what the Bible uses to describe my own "works of righteousness". Blech!

    I stay righteous because Jesus gave to me His righteousness. He became sin, who know no sin, that we might become . . . the righteousness of God . . . in Him.

    Much love!
     
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  5. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    I would say rather, works based on our Faith, not for our Glory, but the Glory of the One whose name we bear....
     
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  6. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Sorry! I mis-wrote . . .

    What I meant was . . .

    That would be a righteousness based on our own works, would it not?

    I am only righteous in Christ's righteousness. What righteousness I do is Christ in me. If it is just what I'm doing, well, we know what the Bible uses to describe my own "works of righteousness". Blech!

    I stay righteous because Jesus gave to me His righteousness. He became sin, who know no sin, that we might become . . . the righteousness of God . . . in Him.

    Much love!
     
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  7. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    Please review these few NT verses ...
    Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
    .
     
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  8. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Zachary,

    Could you select one of these passages which teaches that we maintain our righteousness through doing works of righteousness? Let's take one at a time.

    much love!
     
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  9. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    No, it would not. Being righteous, is what is expected of a child of God.
    If I do what is expected of me what merit is there in that?
    I can do nothing but by the Grace and power of HIM who lives in me,
    And thus ALL the merit, All the glory belongs to HIM, Jesus Christ, my Lord!

    Peace!
     
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  10. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Zachery, that may be your interpretation...but it's wrong.

    Biblically, there is no "process" of salvation as you describe it, but rather, as it is written, "today is the day of salvation." When one passes from death to life, there is no going back. One does not re-enter the womb to be born again of the spirit of God, nor can one who has passed from death to life go back and die again, for he has received eternal life. By definition, your assertion is impossible.

    On the contrary, what you have described is the wavering that occurs with some before salvation. And you adding fear to wavering, is of no service to any.

    Stop teaching and go back to reading and praying.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  11. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    OK, I thought you were saying that we maintain our righteousness by doing righteous works.

    Being righteous, we live what we are. Yes.

    Oh, Actually, you did say that:

    "Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness"

    Much love!
     
  12. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    Many of these passages were not written contrary to what is also written saying that "today is the day of salvation." But rather, much of what we read in the New Testament, was written to "the dead in Christ" and also to "the living in Christ." Therefore, unless we now rightly divide the word accordingly, we will wrongly preach words meant for the dead, unto the living. We have no business now mixing the two. But the dead in Christ are long dead, and "we who are alive and remain" are not under the same word. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the spirit is spirit." Those who died in their sin according to the promise given to Abraham, are now with the Lord. For this reason, Paul also preached that we should therefore "press on" "leaving behind the elementary principles of Christ" regarding salvation.

    "Let the dead bury the dead."
     
  13. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    Our cooperation is CRITICALLY important as God TRIES to sanctify us? REALLY?
    • [Philippians 1:6] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
    • [Philippians 2:13] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
    • [John 3:18] "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    • [Ephesians 2:8-9] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
    • [Romans 8:29-30] For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined [to become] conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
    GOD doesn’t TRY, GOD just DOES!
     
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  14. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    Didn't you mean to say? ...
    GOD does TRY, GOD just TRIES!

    Yes, God the Holy Spirit endeavors to bless us,
    to teach us, to warn us, to correct us, to chastise us
    ... even those of us who use our free will against Him.

    News Flash ... BACs still have free will to do as they please!
    That's why many of us here CHOOSE to continue in habitual sin.
    .
     
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  15. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Amen. Obedience is required in the ongoing process of salvation. We are BEING saved...working out our salvation. Of course there is a past, present and future tense to salvation...since it is a ONGOING work of both God...AND us (by co-operation and willingness and obedience). Likewise there is a beginning, middle and end of a race. So then we who are on this forum today are all in the middle of the race somewhere.

    Modern believers have been led to believe some erroneous suppositions. They who will live in the next age will have been obedient to the will of God.

    Mat. 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    Mat. 12:50 "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."

    Pretty straightforward...
     
  16. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    Nice goin', brother! ... But, not so straightforward!
    'Cause they'll trot out one of their favorite verses
    about doing the will of God is to believe in Jesus!

    Of course, they don't understand what True Saving Belief-Faith really is.
    It just cannot be explained in the one word "believe".
    .
     
  17. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    Well, if you say so, then let me just get my sharpie and cross out all of those verses that I quoted ... because they must not be true. :rolleyes:

    Sorry chief, I'll stick with scripture over your OPINIONS. :)
     
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  18. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    So you, like many pastors scream from the mountaintop “obey God!!!!”
    And then, they proceed to list a bunch of Christian goobly-gook!

    Until pastor start preaching a simply gospel - love others because God loves you
    People are going to continue practicing a surfac-y ritual bound religion with towering doctrine and a chronic drought of human kindness and love.

    So please, please, please!!! Stop with the platitudes and Christianese! People don’t know what you are talking about when you tell them to obey and never tell them what it means!

    Many NT verses teach each of the following spiritual truths
    Believers prove true saving belief through obedience
    Believers stay righteous by practicing righteousness
    Believers keep salvation by repenting of their sins
    Believers faith must endure to the end of their lives
    Believers were chosen and called to live holy lives
    Believers must come through as victorious overcomers

    It maybe true, but it means nothing to a new Christian and invites stupid arguments from seasoned Christians. Instead of Christianese the world needs us to get to loving!

    AMEN
     
  19. Zachary

    Zachary Active Member

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    Please understand that we need to ...
    RECONCILE all of the verses on both sides of an issue.
    .
     
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  20. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    Ok, have at it.
    So far you have just told me that God didn't really mean what he said in the verses that I quoted and God is impotent without our consent. (God just tries really hard to convince us to accept Him.)
     
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