Believing without seeing (Faith before experience)

[Episkopos]

Thomas was unbelieving until Jesus appeared to him. Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Are we like Thomas who only relied on past experience to judge what is possible and what is impossible?

Do we have faith...enough faith to be qualified as having such by the Lord? Isn't the duty of a believer to believe? Yet, Jesus asks.... that when He returns, will He find faith on the earth.

If we take all the various experiences of everyone in the church...a little bit of this, a little bit of that...and if we rely on those experiences to inform the faith of individual believers...without trying to form one big picture, you get a fragmented jumble of disjointed pieces, like an undone puzzle.

Who can see the bigger picture that is able to put all those seemingly unconnected experiences into a harmonious whole? And how can we trust that anyone has a greater gift than we do to accomplish the task?

Can we trust local pastors to see to the unity of the wider body? No, they are only concerned with their own flock...their own franchise...and are usually so dogmatically prejudiced that they are seeking only those who fit into their category.

Does the religious system operate by faith? No. It is by religious beliefs. Who then is sent by God to bring the body together? I'm not talking about hirelings or denominational appointees by men...no, who is sent by God? Has God left us rudderless...left us to our own devices and experiences? Do we care about God's church or just ourselves?

Unless we have faith in God that this can be accomplished...bringing the church into a singleness of mind and heart...then the church will be overcome by the world and deviated from God's purpose by human agendas.


What say you?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

As for faith, it is easy to see what a persons faith is in. Are they trusting in God. or are they trusting in something else? Are they trusting in Religion. or the pastor who leads them. or what they do or do they trust God.

the basis of our hope is that God promised us eternal life. He not only promised us this, But his promise was before time began


in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

In fact, Our continued faith in Christ5 is not based on what we do, or don;t do. But on what he did. John spent a Whole epistle telling us this and ended the epistle with this message of hope.

And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Anyone who teaches we do not have eternal life. and Jesus promised to everyone who believes in him (john 3 - 6) has faith in self. not in God. Like the children of Israel. the refused to look at the serpent on the pole. in pride and unbelief they rejected Gods provision. Just like those who reject what God gave us.

Again in john 3

He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.. Just like the jews who were dead where they stood. Those who in faith looked up lived. those who in unbelief did not look up died.

 

[Episkopos]

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

As for faith, it is easy to see what a persons faith is in. Are they trusting in God. or are they trusting in something else? Are they trusting in Religion. or the pastor who leads them. or what they do or do they trust God.

the basis of our hope is that God promised us eternal life. He not only promised us this, But his promise was before time began


in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,

In fact, Our continued faith in Christ5 is not based on what we do, or don;t do. But on what he did. John spent a Whole epistle telling us this and ended the epistle with this message of hope.

And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Anyone who teaches we do not have eternal life. and Jesus promised to everyone who believes in him (john 3 - 6) has faith in self. not in God. Like the children of Israel. the refused to look at the serpent on the pole. in pride and unbelief they rejected Gods provision. Just like those who reject what God gave us.

Again in john 3

He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.. Just like the jews who were dead where they stood. Those who in faith looked up lived. those who in unbelief did not look up died.

Self-interest aside...what about the larger body coming into oneness as Jesus prayed it would?

I know that most are preoccupied with themselves...as they have been conditioned to be. The devil controls us much easier when all we are concerned with is our own aspirations.

But who has zeal for the Lord's house? Who has a heart like David in this?

Are Catholics the only ones to offer a universal standard of unity?

People will nod their head when it says...the Head of every man is Christ. But without a true witness to that, we could say that the head of every man is himself...to self-determine.

The religious system in the West is structured around the individualism of the greater temporal society. What about the society of God...what about the eternal kingdom order?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Self-interest aside...what about the larger body coming into oneness as Jesus prayed it would?

How does it happen? How is the body formed?

I know that most are pre-occupied with themselves...as they have been conditioned to be. The devil controls us much easier when all we are concerned with is our own little paradise aspirations.

But who has zeal for the Lord's house? Who has a heart like David in this?

Are Catholics the only ones to offer a universal standard of unity?

People will nod their head when it says...the Head of every man is Christ. But without a true witness to that, we could say that the head of every man is himself...to self-determine.

The religious system in the West is structured around the individualism of the greater temporal society. What about the society of God...what about the eternal kingdom order?

Are catholics what? They are no different than the jew. they prove by their own teachings their faith is in their church. their traditions, and their sacraments. not God.

Like I have said many times, if I was going to be a legalist, i would be a catholic. they have the most ways to heaven, and if all else fails. they have purgatory..

 

[Episkopos]

How does it happen? How is the body formed?

Are catholics what? They are no different than the jew. they prove by their own teachings their faith is in their church. their traditions, and their sacraments. not God.

Like I have said many times, if I was going to be a legalist, i would be a catholic. they have the most ways to heaven, and if all else fails. they have purgatory..

You have far less than either of these. You have no unity, only a self-interested religious system adherence based on preference...and only a pretend righteousness based on your high opinion of your own beliefs.

This thread is about believing that there is such a thing as a corporate Body of Christ that can be presented to the world.

There is a lot of pessimism about this. Will the true church unite before the end?

 

[Behold]

Self-interest aside...what about the larger body coming into oneness as Jesus prayed it would?

There is no "oneness" until everyone has the same faith.... the same belief system.

Or as Paul said....>"as many as be PERFECT", and that perfection is not works or deeds...
That perfection is this..

""Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ"

Why does that not happen, and it causes DENOMINATIONS?

What does that not happen, and it causes HOSTILITY on "Forums"?

Its very simple.

If you do not understand The Cross of Christ as God's Etermal Redemption, that is "the Gift of Salvation" and "the Gift of Righteousness".... and instead teach a works based, self righteousness, that is pretending to be The Gospel of Salvation, then this causes "opposition" to come against you, in the real world and on Forums.
So, until there is UNITY of the Faith, there will be hatred, hostility, envy, strife, and every evil work., as that is TRUTH in opposition to what is pretending to be Truth.

"Light vs Darkness"... until Jesus comes back to set that aright.

 

[Episkopos]

There is no "oneness" until everyone has the same faith.... the same belief system.

Or as Paul said....>"as many as be PERFECT", and that perfection is not works or deeds...
That perfection is this..

""Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ"

Why does that not happen, and it causes DENOMINATIONS?

What does that not happen, and it causes HOSTILITY on "Forums"?

Its very simple.

If you do not understand The Cross of Christ as God's Etermal Redemption, and instead teach a works based, self righteousness, that is pretending to be The Gospel of Salvation, then this causes "opposition" to come against you, in the real world and on Forums.
So, until there is UNITY of the Faith, there will be hatred, hostility, envy, strife, and every evil work.

It's that kind of surface carnal interpretation that causes the division...no real power, no real love, no real peace, no unity.

 

[Behold]

It's that kind of surface carnal interpretation that causes the division...no real power, no real love, no real peace, no unity.

You are the very person who =teaches a works based, "working rightesouness", self righteouness Gospel.

Galatians 1:8

No other person, in my many many years, of Ministry, on both sides of this World, has ever said to me that "Jesus is a/my Whipping Boy", which proves that your respect for the Cross of Christ is "spit".
ZERO.

Those are YOUR Words, @Episkopos

Here are more of YOUR Words....

You are the very person who told us that "The Grace of God is FREE STUFF", as if the Blood of Jesus is of that Value. When in fact God's Grace IS the Cross of Christ.
IS< the Blood of Jesus.

Is your defined "whipping boy".

So, its people like you, with your carnal reasoning that pretends to be revelation, who are chained to some man's commentaries, who cause the strife, the division, and the confusion.

You are that one., and every post proves it.
Every Thread proves it.
'Every Video proves it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have far less than either of these. You have no unity, only a self-interested religious system adherence based on preference...and only a pretend righteousness based on your high opinion of your own beliefs.

I have unity with everyone who has faith in Christ, who have recieved him through faith. and have been adopted into his family.

Christ is my head..

This thread is about believing that there is such a thing as a corporate Body of Christ that can be presented to the world.

There is a lot of pessimism about this. Will the true church unite before the end?

The true church is a spiritual thing, it is not a physical thing.

I noticed you have not even mentioned my comments on faith. why is this?

 

[Episkopos]

I have unity with everyone who has faith in Christ, who have recieved him through faith. and have been adopted into his family.

Christ is my head..

The true church is a spiritual thing, it is not a physical thing.

I noticed you have not even mentioned my comments on faith. why is this?

Anybody can read a bible passage, parrot it, without understanding the depth of it..then claim a dogmatic justification based on that.

The really important verses are always ignored...because there is no faith that goes beyond what is already understood, and what has been previously experienced. Basically....no faith.

 

[Episkopos]

You are the very person who =teaches a works based, "working rightesouness", self righteouness Gospel.

That's exactly what you preach...that and how to avoid the cross.

Galatians 1:8

No other person, in my many many years, of Ministry, on both sides of this World, has ever said to me that "Jesus is a/my Whipping Boy", which proves that your respect for the Cross of Christ is "spit".

You have a very wrong view of Jesus always cleaning up after your mess. And you glory in that...rather than be ashamed.

ZERO.

Those are YOUR Words, @Episkopos

Here are more of YOUR Words....

My words to you and the great damage you do to the truth...I just hope people right you off as a religious kook....as I do.

You are the very person who told us that "The Grace of God is FREE STUFF", as if the Blood of Jesus is of that Value, as God's Grace IS the Cross of Christ.
IS< the Blood of Jesus.

You are only in it for the free stuff. That is obvious. Any notion of actually SERVING God you find very distasteful. And there are plenty of self-serving people out there you can appeal to.

God is looking for a people who bear the FRUIT of repentance. He HATES lip-service...by a self-aggrandizing religious people.

So, its people like you, with your carnal reasoning that pretends to be revelation, who are chained to some man's commentaries, who cause the strife, the division, and the confusion.

You are that one., and every post proves it.
Every Thread proves it.
'Every Video proves it.

People hate the truth. They prefer religious schemes devised by men. It keeps you in business.

God struck down the tower of Babel lest men come together in their own selfish way. I'm not talking about unity for its own sake. No I'm seeking a unity according to the Spirit of God...a kingdom of God unity. You have no understanding of this.

 

[Behold]

You have a very wrong view of Jesus always cleaning up after your mess. And you glory in that...rather than be ashamed.

Here is the mess ..

"all have sinned".

How did God clean it up ?

John 3:16

"without the shedding of Blood there is no Forgiveness"..

Who is that one, ?

And once you find out, you'll stop teaching harmful Grace denying Theology.
If you never find out, then you'll just keep on going............

 

[Behold]

You are only in it for the free stuff. That is obvious. Any notion of actually SERVING God you find very distasteful. And there are plenty of self-serving people out there you can appeal to.

Reader, Mods...

Is it not a verifiable, self righteous, judgmental carnal mind, literally revealing themselves, who believes, and states, they can know a believers Life and Service, when they are on a forum, and can't see them in real life?

 

[Behold]

People hate the truth. They prefer religious schemes devised by men. It keeps you in business.

You are saying that The Cross of Christ, that is the Grace of God, that is the New Testament, New Covenant... that the real believers understand is "Salvation", is to you...

"religious schemes".

One day you'll find out, what you dont know now.
Believe it.

 

[Episkopos]

Here is the mess ..

"all have sinned".

How did God clean it up ?

John 3:16

"without the shedding of Blood there is no Forgiveness"..

Who is that one, ?

And once you find out, you'll stop teaching harmful Grace denying Theology.
If you never find out, then you'll just keep on going............

You glory in the sufferings of Jesus on the cross. So did the religious Pharisees. They were happy to see Jesus on the cross. You posted a thread..and then took it down when I shamed you about it. But you love seeing Jesus on the cross. You listen to scenes from "The Passion" luxuriating in Christ's sufferings. You still haven't realized that Paul gloried in his own suffering....not Christ's. He gloried in the cross he himself was crucified on. But that is as far from you as the sun is from the earth. Maybe my continuing to chip away at your religious facade one day will let in a little light??? I'm praying for you.

Without shedding of blood there is no FREEDOM from sin. Your understanding is from men....not God.

Read Isaiah 61:1 ..what Jesus said was fulfilled in Him. Does it say that Jesus came to forgive the prisoners...to speak forgiveness through the bars of the jail?

Or does it say....To set the captives free...to open the prison doors???

Don't just read your own posts. Read the bible.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Anybody can read a bible passage, parrot it, without understanding the depth of it..then claim a dogmatic justification based on that.

Your right.

But that does not mean they are right.

The really important verses are always ignored...because there is no faith that goes beyond what is already understood, and what has been previously experienced. Basically....no faith.

Agreed here also.

once again, I posted alot of verses on faith and eternal life.. Will you respond to them, or ignore them?

 

[Behold]

You glory in the sufferings of Jesus on the cross.

Wrong again..

I GIVE GLORY to Jesus, as the Sacrificial Lamb.

See, Just like Paul, a real Christian, will "preach the Cross", as The Grace of God, that is "the power of God unto Salvation".

Its the sufferings of Jesus, that He knew was coming.... when He said "let this CUP pass from me, if possible""..

That CUP, is the Judgement of God, against our sin, that was poured out on Jesus, = The Cross.

This is our Salvation.
This is our eternal Redemption.

Hymnbooks, have thousands of Songs, that praise the Son of God, for His Atoning Sacrifice.

Im one of those..... writers.

See all my posts and Threads, for the update...

Your posts and Threads, and Videos, are not related to this at all.

 

[Behold]

Without shedding of blood there is no FREEDOM from sin.

That is Christ on the Cross.

"God hath made Jesus to BE SIN.... for US""""""".....How ?? "Jesus is the one time Eternal Sacrifice for Sin".

Where is this found?

A.) THE CROSS......OF........Christ.

 

[Behold]

Read Isaiah 61:1

And Jesus did preach, regarding that Anointing.

Now here is verse for you, from Isaiah..

This is ISAIAH, = prophecy.......He is showing us that Christ is going to be whipped and then sent to the CROSS to DIE, as our Sin Bearer, and Redeemer.

In the NT< this is "the Preaching of the Cross"< that is "the Gospel of the Grace of God"
-
-
KJ21
But He was wounded for our transgressions; He was bruised for our iniquities. The chastisement of our peace was upon Him, and with His stripes we are healed.
ASV
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
AMP
But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was crushed for our wickedness [our sin, our injustice, our wrongdoing]; The punishment [required] for our well-being fell on Him, And by His stripes (wounds) we are healed.
AMPC
But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement [needful to obtain] peace and well-being for us was upon Him, and with the stripes [that wounded] Him we are healed and made whole.
BRG
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
CSB
But he was pierced because of our rebellion, crushed because of our iniquities; punishment for our peace was on him, and we are healed by his wounds.
CEB
He was pierced because of our rebellions and crushed because of our crimes. He bore the punishment that made us whole; by his wounds we are healed.
CJB
But he was wounded because of our crimes, crushed because of our sins; the disciplining that makes us whole fell on him, and by his bruises* we are healed.
CEV
He was wounded and crushed because of our sins; by taking our punishment, he made us completely well.
DARBY
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and with his stripes we are healed.
DRA
But he was wounded for our iniquities, he was bruised for our sins: the chastisement of our peace was upon him, and by his bruises we are healed.
ERV
But he was being punished for what we did. He was crushed because of our guilt. He took the punishment we deserved, and this brought us peace. We were healed because of his pain.
EHV
but it was because of our rebellion that he was pierced. He was crushed for the guilt our sins deserved. The punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
ESV
But he was pierced for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his wounds we are healed.
ESVUK
But he was wounded for our transgressions; he was crushed for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace, and with his stripes we are healed.
EXB

 

[Episkopos]

Based on our own past experience we can't imagine a unified church. However, the church began when ALL experienced the grace from heaven in a common event, Pentecost. Do we need a new Pentecost whereby nobody has to say to his fellow believer.."know the Lord?!

What say you?