Believing without seeing (Faith before experience)

[amigo de christo]

You are saying that The Cross of Christ, that is the Grace of God, that is the New Testament, New Covenant... that the real believers understand is "Salvation", is to you...

"religious schemes".

One day you'll find out, what you dont know now.
Believe it.

Better HE BELIEVE IT NOW . for the shoes He be in will be shaking in terror on the DAY of the LORD .
I would not want to even dare to imagine what one will be told who DENIED the DIRE NEED
to have beleived on had faith in CHRIST . THEY WONT like what they get told on the day of the LORD .
Epi is in dire deadly grave danger and has no idea the amount of wrath he is gathering unto Himself on the day of wrath .
The gospel is real simple . EPI DONT know it and worse HE teaches AGAINST IT . That is super deadly dangerous .

 

[amigo de christo]

You err if you believe that unity comes with our careful observation, like religious Jews and Catholics do.

Examine closely what epi teaches and you will see its just another web of the web getting spun
to simply have all religoins and tribes to join as one , UNDER A LIE TOO .
There is no dire need to believe on JESUS CHRIST in their eyes , rather its basically a do good works
and come together oneness . JUST Like ol nimrodnese . All coming together to try and build
their own religion , aka love , aka tower to HEAVEN . IT WONT WORK . SHOULD HAVE PREACHED THE DIRE
NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST and ALL HE did teach . But there are other spirits at work
whose desire is to simply cause the world , kings , religoins and peoples to merge as one .
ONLY they have no idea its unto the day of armegeddon and believe rather it will be their kingdom uptopia of peace and safety .
ITS COMING DOWN on the DAY of the LORD . my suggestion , no wait , MY DIRE PLEA
is folks get in them bibles , learn THAT JESUS , that GOSPEL and that WORD . AND FAST TOO .
many are being sucked up into a lie that cometh and has come under the guise that it is love and is of GOD .
ONLY IT AINT NETIHER ONE . ITS a snare that came and cometh of THE FATHER OF LIES
to gather all unto his web as one to come against CHRIST and the saints . THAT END WONT BODE WELL for them who did such
a thing nor for them who sat under its lie . WE , We lambs are staying glued to CHRIST SISTER
MARCH ON IN THE TRENCHES .

 

[Episkopos]

Better HE BELIEVE IT NOW . for the shoes He be in will be shaking in terror on the DAY of the LORD .
I would not want to even dare to imagine what one will be told who DENIED the DIRE NEED
to have beleived on had faith in CHRIST . THEY WONT like what they get told on the day of the LORD .
Epi is in dire deadly grave danger and has no idea the amount of wrath he is gathering unto Himself on the day of wrath .
The gospel is real simple . EPI DONT know it and worse HE teaches AGAINST IT . That is super deadly dangerous .

What I teach against is religious certainty based on dogmatic beliefs. It's easy to write off the Israelites, then the Laodiceans, then the wicked servants, then the ones who say Lord, Lord, then the virgins with empty lamps.......just write them all off as somebody else. It's NOT ME they say.

But isn't that what those people would say...it's not me???

Whereas the disciples of Jesus would say...Lord, is it I?

There is no fear of the Lord before their eyes. No, they swear they can see, that they understand, and are confident.

 

[amigo de christo]

What I teach against is religious certainty based on dogmatic beliefs. It's easy to write off the Israelites, then the Laodiceans, then the wicked servants, then the ones who say Lord, Lord, then the virgins with empty lamps.......just write them all off as somebody else. It's NOT ME they say.

But isn't that what those people would say...it's not me???

Whereas the disciples of Jesus would say...Lord, is it I?

Yet its what you preach . you preach religoius certainty . Your faith is in self . you absolutely trust in self
and have zero desire to TRUST IN HE ALONE WHO ONLY CAN BE TRUSTED IN , WHICH IS JESUS CHRIST .
You preach non stop against What you call EGO and yet its your own EGO
that has blinded your own eyes . You preach a religion epi . Yet know it not .
You preach the same concept the unbelieving jews did . Sure you can , at times
spout truths and yet KNOW NOT THE TRUTH .
You can spout concepts about the cross which contain truths and yet DENY the DIRE NEED to beleive ON HE
who was CRUCIFIED upon that cross .
You preach about how any religoin can pick up its own cross , aka ITS OWN ABILITY its own doings
and yet know not the blind cannot lead the blind .
You claim to see , and yet preach against any who try and say one must FIRST BELIEVE ON CHRIST
you cliam to see , and that is WHY your sins remain .
I have come into the world that those who see NOT might see and that those who SEE MIGHT BE MADE BLIND .
YOU SAY YOU SEE and yet DENY JESUS CHRIST , thus YOU BLIND partner and your sins remain upon you unto this very hour .
For you have DENIED the HOLY ONE OF GOD and call it RELIGIOUS EGO and superficial nonsense
to preach the gospel , that one must indeed BELIEVE IN CHRIST .
Your sins which are many are upon you , and you will DIE in your sin
for if ye believe NOT that JESUS IS the CHRIST and teach others they have no need too , YOU will die in your sins
and their blood will be UPON YOUR HEAD as well .
HEY EPI , THAT AINT NO PLACE YOU WANT TO BE . REPENT ASAP .

 

[amigo de christo]

The great overseer claimeth HE follows the SPIRIT
and yet DENIES the SPIRIT
HE , THE COMFORTER will reprove the world of SIN , of righteousness and of judgment .
Of SIN because , HEY EPI , THEY BELIEVE NOT ON ME .
OOPSY . EPI you aint hearing FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT .
HE WILL TESTIFY OF ME . Hey epi when folks try and do that , you call it RELIGOIUS EGO .
so again you aint hearing FROM GOD at all .

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

There is wisdom in your response. Great post!

Was thirsty! Good insights from the OT are always refreshing.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

From your perspective, life is death and death is life. So yes from your perspective I'm the one that doesn't know God.

there you go proving you do not know anythign about me

In my perspective we are dead. Just like jesus said, and we must be born again because we are dead.

You evidently do not believe this.. which is why you can;t fathom what Christ did

Those who enter INTO (eis) Jesus have...to walk in right now...eternal life. The sample of grace at regeneration is a sample of His life. Going to Jesus to enter INTO Him one finds the full measure of grace which is His resurrection life.

You are basing a whole understanding of the gospel on a surface reading of the bible. The bible is understood by the Spirit and not meant to make up religious schemes with.


We have to believe something is before we believe in it. Jesus came to bring His Bride His life...an eternal life. We enter into that life by believing INTO Him...to be where He is. If you don't believe that is possible...you will NEVER seek, ask, or knock, for it.


The key word is IN Him..for those who believe INTO Him.


Using the opposite rule....yes.


That's it? That's all there is? Look at a bible or an imagined Jesus...and live?

I'm talking about actual faith that moves God....and translates the saint into God's real holy presence ...you are talking of a religious scheme that people justify themselves in.

You think that praying is earning? Do you ever pray? Or is that works?

Once again you do not practice what you preach.

you speak of a faith that can;t be seen yet your faith is in how you walk. You can see your walk. So your faith is in the seen.

Your op is contradictory to your own belief system.

 

[Episkopos]

It's to be expected that people who feel backed into a corner by the truth will lash out. That's the flesh. Religious sounding language is simply weaponized as desired when that happens.

Just consider the possibility that things are not as you think they are....or just stay as you are.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

How can you trust your own discernment when so many choose other preferences than your own?

The Holy Spirit has confirmed with my Spirit, truth. He lives within me. He teaches, guides, counsels, hears and answers my prayers, is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, He bears witness to Christ and glorifies Him, is wise, gives gifts, baptized us, justifies us, loves us, edifies us, fellowships with us, sanctified us and convicts us of sin. When I hear a Spirited filled Pastor preach I hear the Holy Spirit. There is a harmony in their message. But are still to test all things with scripture.

What qualifies you as a chief inspector? How do you know you have merely chosen one human option among many?

I chiefly inspect for me and have found and heard many blessed preachers.

I believe the truth is found by a full consecration in seeking God directly...not sampling religious products.

The way I just explained it above is my experience directly with God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It's to be expected that people who feel backed into a corner by the truth will lash out. That's the flesh. Religious sounding language is simply weaponized as desired when that happens.

Just consider the possibility that things are not as you think they are....or just stay as you are.

Who is backed in a corner?

If anything you are

once again. You opened a thread on faith in the unseen.. Yet anyone who really shows faith in the unseen, You lash out at them.

 

[Episkopos]

Who is backed in a corner?

If anything you are

once again. You opened a thread on faith in the unseen.. Yet anyone who really shows faith in the unseen, You lash out at them.

That's what you think you see. And if you were just doing that...that would be fine. But you are not simply having faith in the unseen you are claiming to be like Paul, claiming to have the status of a saint before God. Without humility and without any fear of the Lord. Why do you judge others?

You are denying what the bible is saying about you, and warning you against.

Why do you think you can name it and claim it without penalty? Why do you esteem yourself so highly? It would be like the Pharisees saying they just believed in God and His law. If that was all they were doing, why did Jesus condemn them as being worse than blatant sinners...unbelievers?

You have yet to see things God's way.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's what you think you see. And if you were just doing that...that would be fine. But you are not simply having faith in the unseen you are claiming to be like Paul, claiming to have the status of a saint before God. Without humility and without any fear of the Lord. Why do you judge others?

Yet you have faith in a church (seen)

In your works (seen)

In what you do. or what you say (seen)

I don;t think it is what is happening, it is what is happening..

why won't you confess to the truth?

You are denying what the bible is saying about you, and warning you against.

Nope. I am receiving what the bible is warning against. And I am practicing what the bible says

In fact my first post in this thread shows that. Notice you have not even responded to the truths of what I posted.. Here I will repost.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
As for faith, it is easy to see what a persons faith is in. Are they trusting in God. or are they trusting in something else? Are they trusting in Religion. or the pastor who leads them. or what they do or do they trust God.
the basis of our hope is that God promised us eternal life. He not only promised us this, But his promise was before time began
in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
In fact, Our continued faith in Christ5 is not based on what we do, or don;t do. But on what he did. John spent a Whole epistle telling us this and ended the epistle with this message of hope.
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Anyone who teaches we do not have eternal life. and Jesus promised to everyone who believes in him (john 3 - 6) has faith in self. not in God. Like the children of Israel. the refused to look at the serpent on the pole. in pride and unbelief they rejected Gods provision. Just like those who reject what God gave us.
Again in john 3
He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.. Just like the jews who were dead where they stood. Those who in faith looked up lived. those who in unbelief did not look up died.

Why do you think you can name it and claim it without penalty?

Why do you think you can work for it and it will get you out scott free?

Why do you esteem yourself so highly?

If I esteemed myself highly I would be like you. I think it is well established my hope and praise is in Christ. not in self.

It would be like the Pharisees saying they just believed in God and His law. If that was all they were doing, why did Jesus condemn them as being worse than blatant sinners...unbelievers?

You have yet to see things God's way.

Because like you, they thought their works and the law is what made them righteous. Jesus told them sorry, but it does nto help them, the law proves them guilty. so they did to Jesus what you do to his followers. you mock, attack, and crucify them

 

[Episkopos]

Yet you have faith in a church (seen)

In your works (seen)

In what you do. or what you say (seen)

I don;t think it is what is happening, it is what is happening..

why won't you confess to the truth?

Nope. I am receiving what the bible is warning against. And I am practicing what the bible says

In fact my first post in this thread shows that. Notice you have not even responded to the truths of what I posted.. Here I will repost.

Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
As for faith, it is easy to see what a persons faith is in. Are they trusting in God. or are they trusting in something else? Are they trusting in Religion. or the pastor who leads them. or what they do or do they trust God.
the basis of our hope is that God promised us eternal life. He not only promised us this, But his promise was before time began
in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,
In fact, Our continued faith in Christ5 is not based on what we do, or don;t do. But on what he did. John spent a Whole epistle telling us this and ended the epistle with this message of hope.
And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
Anyone who teaches we do not have eternal life. and Jesus promised to everyone who believes in him (john 3 - 6) has faith in self. not in God. Like the children of Israel. the refused to look at the serpent on the pole. in pride and unbelief they rejected Gods provision. Just like those who reject what God gave us.
Again in john 3
He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.. Just like the jews who were dead where they stood. Those who in faith looked up lived. those who in unbelief did not look up died.

Why do you think you can work for it and it will get you out scott free?

If I esteemed myself highly I would be like you. I think it is well established my hope and praise is in Christ. not in self.

Because like you, they thought their works and the law is what made them righteous. Jesus told them sorry, but it does nto help them, the law proves them guilty. so they did to Jesus what you do to his followers. you mock, attack, and crucify them

Mock, attack and crucify? My, my, aren't we touchy this morning. Your use of exaggerated hyperbole comes from your religious imagination. Isn't that more than obvious? Do you feel you have now suffered on the scale of a Paul? Is this response to you the same as being whipped and stoned? Do my words give you unseen scars on your back?

There is a propensity...because the kingdom of God is unseen....to see "unseen" as the same as what is made up in one's own head.

Crucify? Really?

Molly coddling the flesh leads to a "snowflake" mentality that sees truth as violence. Welcome to the modern world...and how it has infiltrated into the modern church.

 

[Lizbeth]

Examine closely what epi teaches and you will see its just another web of the web getting spun
to simply have all religoins and tribes to join as one , UNDER A LIE TOO .
There is no dire need to believe on JESUS CHRIST in their eyes , rather its basically a do good works
and come together oneness . JUST Like ol nimrodnese . All coming together to try and build
their own religion , aka love , aka tower to HEAVEN . IT WONT WORK . SHOULD HAVE PREACHED THE DIRE
NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS CHRIST and ALL HE did teach . But there are other spirits at work
whose desire is to simply cause the world , kings , religoins and peoples to merge as one .
ONLY they have no idea its unto the day of armegeddon and believe rather it will be their kingdom uptopia of peace and safety .
ITS COMING DOWN on the DAY of the LORD . my suggestion , no wait , MY DIRE PLEA
is folks get in them bibles , learn THAT JESUS , that GOSPEL and that WORD . AND FAST TOO .
many are being sucked up into a lie that cometh and has come under the guise that it is love and is of GOD .
ONLY IT AINT NETIHER ONE . ITS a snare that came and cometh of THE FATHER OF LIES
to gather all unto his web as one to come against CHRIST and the saints . THAT END WONT BODE WELL for them who did such
a thing nor for them who sat under its lie . WE , We lambs are staying glued to CHRIST SISTER
MARCH ON IN THE TRENCHES .

Amen. Sadly they are looking for "utopia" in the wrong place. Pollyanna fairy tales of waving and smiling at children doesn't face reality.......how many of those children will grow up to be sinners and what will their end be apart from Christ. The utopia some are trying to build cannot stand - it won't be found in a world that will be judged and burned up. It is only found in Christ and within/among those who do know Him.

Jesus told us who His brothers, sisters, mother, father are.......those who do the will of God. Is worshiping idols, practicing witchcraft, believing lies, trusting and believing in "self" and doing one's own will, stealing, cheating, fornication...etc, etc. the will of God? No, those who do such things are not His brothers/sisters and will not inherit eternal life....unless they REPENT of those things and turn to Him. At one time God overlooked such things so to speak, I think just in the sense that He kept quiet about it to the world except for Israel - but now commands all men everywhere to repent and now His voice is going everywhere to the ends of the earth commanding repentance and faith in His Son.

 

[Lizbeth]

What I teach against is religious certainty based on dogmatic beliefs. It's easy to write off the Israelites, then the Laodiceans, then the wicked servants, then the ones who say Lord, Lord, then the virgins with empty lamps.......just write them all off as somebody else. It's NOT ME they say.

But isn't that what those people would say...it's not me???

Whereas the disciples of Jesus would say...Lord, is it I?

There is no fear of the Lord before their eyes. No, they swear they can see, that they understand, and are confident.

No one here is denying the role that self examination plays in a believer's life. And the scripture says in context of self examination that if we would judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world.

 

[Episkopos]

No one here is denying the role that self examination plays in a believer's life. And the scripture says in context of self examination that if we would judge ourselves we will not be judged with the world.

Self-examination is good. But how much self does it take to discern eternal things? All the claiming based on what is unseen that the self can be fully deceived about. For that there is the word of God...and pesky prophets who want for the name of God to be not blasphemed in the world because of the high-mindedness of the uncrucified.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Mock, attack and crucify? My, my, aren't we touchy this morning. Your use of exaggerated hyperbole comes from your religious imagination. Isn't that more than obvious? Do you feel you have now suffered on the scale of a Paul? Is this response to you the same as being whipped and stoned? Do my words give you unseen scars on your back?

lol. Your funny man.

You can;t touch me.. I am just stating fact.. But instead of responding to the fact. here you are again attacking the messenger.

There is a propensity...because the kingdom of God is unseen....to see "unseen" as the same as what is made up in one's own head.

The kingdom of God is unseen?

Tell that to the early church. They saw it and experienced it.

Now what got a person into the kingdom. That is what is unseen. Jesus laid this out carefully to Nicodemus. that the spirit comes and you know not where it came from. Thus is he who is born again..

Its through faith we are saved. And jesus tells us flat out. we will never die. and we have eternal life

why don;t you believe in those things unseen? Why is not your faith in that. and not in self?

Crucify? Really?

Molly coddling the flesh leads to a "snowflake" mentality that sees truth as violence. Welcome to the modern world...and how it has infiltrated into the modern church.

Jesus was crucified. As the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (makes atonement)

when will you trust in that. and not your own works?

The church has been a false church since the romans forced the true church into the underground, and added their paganized form of judaism type self righteous religion. and forced it on the world.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Self-examination is good. But how much self does it take to discern eternal things? All the claiming based on what is unseen that the self can be fully deceived about. For that there is the word of God...and pesky prophets who want for the name of God to be not blasphemed in the world because of the high-mindedness of the uncrucified.

Here we go

Those who base their faith on things unseen.. are decieved

Thank you my friend, for telling us all what we have said all along

 

[Episkopos]

Here we go

Those who base their faith on things unseen.. are decieved

Thank you my friend, for telling us all what we have said all along

Wrong again. It's those who base their BELIEFS on things unseen, to puff up their religious outer man...are deceived.

Judgment will reveal this as per the biblical testimony. I don't expect all the self-aggrandizing responders to understand this. I write these things to warn the wise.

 

[St. SteVen]

Are Catholics the only ones to offer a universal standard of unity?

Sadly, yes.

As I understand it, Catholics surrender their own personal beliefs, assuming they ever had any,
to the authority and rule of the religious institution, that claims they have that authority.
(our way or the highway)

That's what unity looks like. Any takers?