Beware Of The Crowd--The Many!

[ScottA]

And, sadly, that is your opinion based on your particular bias and theological understanding, for you alone.

Others may form a very different view based upon what other people may post.

Shalom

You are basing your comment on your assumption that I have been speaking my "opinion" and my own "theological understanding"--when I have told you that is not the case. Which shows you doing just what you have accused me of. Typical.

Which, by the way, by definition is not "peace."

 

[bdavidc]

It takes so little to spot your error!

Which is it "rightly dividing" or "wrongly splicing?" (Rhetorical) Dividing or separating is not "splicing"--meaning you are wrong from the get-go. Oh, and your opinion doesn't actually matter or count.

You are arguing against a metaphor instead of addressing the biblical issue.

“Rightly dividing the word of truth” does not mean separating verses from their contexts and recombining them however one wishes. Paul told Timothy to study so that he would be “a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15). The point is to handle God’s Word accurately.

“Wrongly splicing” describes taking portions of separate passages and joining them together to produce a meaning that neither passage teaches in its own context. Dividing correctly and splicing incorrectly are not the same action, so there is no contradiction in what I said.

You have again avoided showing from the context that your interpretation is actually what the passages teach. Telling me that my opinion does not matter proves nothing. My opinion is not the standard, and neither is yours. Scripture is the standard.

If you believe your interpretation is correct, demonstrate it from the words, grammar, and context of the passages. Otherwise, this has become nothing more than wordplay and personal dismissal. I have stated my position and supported it from Scripture. I will not continue repeating the same exchange.

 

[Jay Ross]

You are basing your comment on your assumption that I have been speaking my "opinion" and my own "theological understanding"--when I have told you that is not the case. Which shows you doing just what you have accused me of. Typical.

Which, by the way, by definition is not "peace."

I believe that Paul instructed the Saints to listen to a "prophetic 'word'" and to then consider that word and to evaluate that 'word' to determine if that word is true.

People are commenting on your "words" with respect to what our respective understanding of the applicable Scriptures present to us.

Now since you do not respect what others present, then please do not be offended if others do not respect your offerings of "wisdoms" which you claim that you are receiving directly from God. I for my part have had reservations on what you post and as such my posts reflects my reservation on what you post as being the Gospel truth or God's words for us today.

Goodbye "Scottie A"

 

[IndianaRob]

People are defining rightly dividing by their own ideas. The Bible defines "rightly dividing for us if you just look at it.

The Old Testament is earthly things.
The New Testament is heavenly things.

Rightly dividing means knowing when the Bible is speaking literally and when it's speaking spiritually. The words in the Bible mean EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAY. The only judgment we make as readers is which realm it's speaking of — is this earthly or is this heavenly.

This is a short list, but almost everything literal thing in the bible is pointing to or foreshadowing the spiritual thing that is more real than the literal thing.

Earthly / Old Testament	Heavenly / New Testament
Earthly Jerusalem	Heavenly Jerusalem (Galatians 4, Hebrews, Revelation 21)
Literal temple, tabernacle, priesthood, sacrifices	Spiritual temple, believer as temple, Christ as high priest
Third dimension — physical, visible, tangible	Fourth dimension — spiritual, unseen, eternal
Levi, third son — Levitical priesthood, earthly priests, physical tribe, earthly sanctuary	Judah, fourth son — Jesus, heavenly priest, spiritual priesthood, Melchizedek order
Earthly Jew — natural born, physical descent from Abraham, circumcision of flesh	Spiritual Jew — born again, spiritual descent from Abraham by faith, circumcision of the heart
Adam — earthly man, made of dust, natural life	Christ — last Adam, heavenly man, life giving spirit (1 Corinthians 15:45-47)
Moses — earthly mediator, law given on earthly Sinai	Jesus — heavenly mediator, new covenant, heavenly Sinai (Hebrews 12)
Law — commandments written on stone, external	Grace — law written on heart, internal
Blood of bulls and goats — earthly atonement, temporary covering	Blood of Christ — heavenly atonement, eternal redemption
Earthly Canaan — physical promised land, rest through conquest	Heavenly Canaan — spiritual rest, entering by faith (Hebrews 4)
Circumcision of flesh — physical sign of earthly covenant	Circumcision of heart — spiritual sign of new covenant
Earthly sabbath — literal day of rest	Spiritual sabbath — rest in Christ, ceasing from our own works
Natural birth — born of water, flesh	Spiritual birth — born of Spirit

 

[ScottA]

“Rightly dividing the word of truth” does not mean separating verses from their contexts and recombining them however one wishes.

Again, two sentences in and you are already in error.

Men don't decide context--they try, and that is what you are doing--but it doesn't work that way. God decides. And now I am repeating myself. When will you learn?

 

[ScottA]

I believe that Paul instructed the Saints to listen to a "prophetic 'word'" and to then consider that word and to evaluate that 'word' to determine if that word is true.

People are commenting on your "words" with respect to what our respective understanding of the applicable Scriptures present to us.

Now since you do not respect what others present, then please do not be offended if others do not respect your offerings of "wisdoms" which you claim that you are receiving directly from God. I for my part have had reservations on what you post and as such my posts reflects my reservation on what you post as being the Gospel truth or God's words for us today.

Goodbye "Scottie A"

You mock--again, typical.

But you have it wrong. The Spirit is judged of no man.

 

[Jay Ross]

You mock--again, typical.

But you have it wrong. The Spirit is judged of no man.

I agree that "The Spirit is judged of no man." This is what you wrote. Perhaps you meant: - I agree that "The Spirit is judged by no man.", which I thinks is a clearer way of stating this fact.

The mechanisms by which the Saints were to evaluate a prophetic word that is given, I have/did not elaborate upon. I would have thought that the spirit of the people considering that prophetic word would have considered whether or not the giver's guiding spirit was in unity with their guiding spirit so that the unity of understanding would naturally flow.

As to whether or not I was mocking you can be argued, but based upon your usual defence of your posts, it is what many would expect you to claim.

Goodbye "Scottie A"

 

[ScottA]

I agree that "The Spirit is judged of no man." This is what you wrote. Perhaps you meant: - I agree that "The Spirit is judged by no man.", which I thinks is a clearer way of stating this fact.

The mechanisms by which the Saints were to evaluate a prophetic word that is given, I have/did not elaborate upon. I would have thought that the spirit of the people considering that prophetic word would have considered whether or not the giver's guiding spirit was in unity with their guiding spirit so that the unity of understanding would naturally flow.

As to whether or not I was mocking you can be argued, but based upon your usual defence of your posts, it is what many would expect you to claim.

Goodbye "Scottie A"

Consider the Priests and the Pharisees, well meaning, well educated, well versed and in agreement, but wrong. "Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either."

 

[ShineTheLight]

God's gift of salvation is for all men....and it is easier than most think/ believe. The road is narrow because men/ women don't believe that God is as gracious as he is. Men and women struggle because they superimpose their ideas/ traditions/ theologies onto God. Many refuse to see Jesus as he is.....instead, they make him in their image.

Here are some texts to consider...yes, consider their weightiness

John 1:16
And of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him

Titus 3:3-7
Once we, too, were foolish and disobedient. We were misled and became slaves to many lusts and pleasures. Our lives were full of evil and envy, and we hated each other. But— When God our Savior revealed his kindness and love, he saved us, not because of the righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He washed away our sins, giving us a new birth and new life through the Holy Spirit. He generously poured out the Spirit upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior. Because of his grace he made us right in his sight (innocent) and gave us confidence that we will inherit eternal life.

No. The road isn't narrow because men or women "don't believe that God is as gracious as he is". It's narrow because it has challenges that push someone out of their comfort zone. There's a lot of people on the broad way to destruction because of how they want to be comfortable. Devils believe. You can't just believe and think you made it.

These are the passages you want to see.

Luke 3:8-9
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Romans 11:16-22
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Malachi 3:1-7
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts.
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

Revelation 3:17-19
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Hebrews 12:7-11
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Matthew 3:8-10
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance,
9 and think not to say to yourselves, We have Abraham as our father. For I say unto you that God is able from these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees; therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.

Isaiah 1:22-31
22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
24 Therefore saith the Lord, the Lord of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.
29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.

Zechariah 13:7-9
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

 

[ShineTheLight]

There is a serious warning here, but I do not believe the text says that the narrow way is a hidden, difficult path that only a few people discover “within the church.”

Jesus said, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 7:21). These are people who profess Christ, but a profession is not proof that someone belongs to Him. Jesus does not say, “I once knew you, but you failed to find the difficult path.” He says, “I never knew you” (Matthew 7:23). They were never His.

Their religious works, prophecies, exorcisms, and wonders did not prove that they were saved. In fact, Jesus called them “workers of iniquity.” The warning is not that they were sincere Christians who chose comfortable doctrine. The warning is that outward religion, impressive works, and supernatural claims cannot replace actually knowing Christ.

The word translated “difficult” in Matthew 7:14 describes a narrow or constricted way. It does not mean that salvation is found by discovering complicated or unpopular doctrines. Jesus Christ Himself is the way. He said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (John 14:6).

The same correction applies to John 6. The people did not leave merely because Jesus taught something intellectually difficult. Jesus plainly identified their real problem: “There are some of you that believe not” (John 6:64). Their unbelief caused them to reject His words.

We absolutely should examine ourselves, as 2 Corinthians 13:5 commands. But we must examine ourselves according to Scripture, not by asking whether our path feels difficult, uncomfortable, or unpopular. Hardship is not proof of truth, and comfort is not proof of error. False religion can be difficult, demanding, and uncomfortable too.

The biblical question is whether we have truly come to Christ in faith, whether His Word governs what we believe, and whether the fruit of a changed life follows. Salvation is not earned by works, miracles, sacrifice, or choosing the most difficult road. It is by grace through faith, and genuine faith produces obedience as its fruit.

There were those who believe for a time but then fall away in time of temptation, Luke 8:13.

The passages after John 6:64. In verse 65, it shows you that no one can come to Jesus on their own terms. It has to be on the heavenly father's terms. This is what got the ancient Israelite's of the old testament in trouble. They followed God on their own terms and disregarded the prophets. Two chapters back, in John 4:24, it says that we must worship God in spirit and in truth. In verse 66 of that chapter in John 6 where the disciples walk back. This is sinners going back to their sins and not continuing in Christ. There are a few passages in the old testament where God tells his children to return to him. Then there is the thing about the 99 sheep that are lost and the one that comes back in Luke.

Romans 11:22 says to behold the goodness and severity of God. Those who are lacking certain things don't have the wisdom to face the severity of God. In chapter 1 of Proverbs there is wisdom that cries out to the people. She asks the simple ones how long will they love their simplicity, the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge. God says to turn at her reproof. Then there are these.

Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Job 5:17-19
17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
18 For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
19 He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.

 

[quietthinker]

No. The road isn't narrow because men or women "don't believe that God is as gracious as he is". It's narrow because it has challenges that push someone out of their comfort zone. There's a lot of people on the broad way to destruction because of how they want to be comfortable. Devils believe. You can't just believe and think you made it.

These are the passages you want to see.

Luke 3:8-9
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

John 15:6
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Romans 11:16-22
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Malachi 3:1-7
1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.
5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts.
6 For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the Lord of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

Revelation 3:17-19
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Hebrews 12:7-11
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Matthew 3:8-10
8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance,
9 and think not to say to yourselves, We have Abraham as our father. For I say unto you that God is able from these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees; therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.

Isaiah 1:22-31
22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
24 Therefore saith the Lord, the Lord of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies:
25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed.
29 For they shall be ashamed of the oaks which ye have desired, and ye shall be confounded for the gardens that ye have chosen.
30 For ye shall be as an oak whose leaf fadeth, and as a garden that hath no water.
31 And the strong shall be as tow, and the maker of it as a spark, and they shall both burn together, and none shall quench them.

Zechariah 13:7-9
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

I guess you don't want to be comfortable?

 

[ScottA]

I guess you don't want to be comfortable?

That's the thing about being comfortable (and many things), there is a good comfortable, but also a bad comfortable.

But you are right--there is noting wrong with being comfortable in Christ in God--it's the best! But many are comfortable with this world and this flesh, which they have become accustom to.

It's Hamburger B. Ode to Burger King: "Which would you prefer. Hamburger A that is hot, juicy, and tasty, or Hamburger B that is cold, dry, and bland?" And everyone said before rolling eyes, "Hamburger B!" Kinda like "Crucify Him!" the crowd is prone to it.

 

[bdavidc]

There were those who believe for a time but then fall away in time of temptation, Luke 8:13.

The passages after John 6:64. In verse 65, it shows you that no one can come to Jesus on their own terms. It has to be on the heavenly father's terms. This is what got the ancient Israelite's of the old testament in trouble. They followed God on their own terms and disregarded the prophets. Two chapters back, in John 4:24, it says that we must worship God in spirit and in truth. In verse 66 of that chapter in John 6 where the disciples walk back. This is sinners going back to their sins and not continuing in Christ. There are a few passages in the old testament where God tells his children to return to him. Then there is the thing about the 99 sheep that are lost and the one that comes back in Luke.

Romans 11:22 says to behold the goodness and severity of God. Those who are lacking certain things don't have the wisdom to face the severity of God. In chapter 1 of Proverbs there is wisdom that cries out to the people. She asks the simple ones how long will they love their simplicity, the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge. God says to turn at her reproof. Then there are these.

Proverbs 27:6
Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Job 5:17-19
17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:
18 For he maketh sore, and bindeth up: he woundeth, and his hands make whole.
19 He shall deliver thee in six troubles: yea, in seven there shall no evil touch thee.

Luke 8:13 does not prove that saved people lose salvation. Jesus says they “have no root.” Their temporary response is contrasted with those who keep the word and “bring forth fruit with patience” in verse 15. Temporary belief is not the same as saving faith.

John 6:66 does not say saved men returned to sin either. Jesus had already identified the problem: “There are some of you that believe not” (John 6:64).

The other verses about correction and chastening do not answer the issue. Matthew 7 says, “I never knew you,” not, “I knew you and then lost you.” You are reading salvation and loss of salvation into passages that describe rootless and unbelieving people.