Bible Study: The Gospel is in the Torah

[shepherdsword]

The gospel was presented to the world at the time of the early church through a living testimony backed up by the Old Testament Scriptures. The written New Testament came later. Does our understanding of the gospel line up with the Scriptures?

@Episkopos Let's see if we can get this back on track. (for those that actually watched the video)There is some good stuff here. The true interpretation of Duet 19:21 (second law) is profound:

It's not eye shall not pity....it's eye shall not be covered:




It's not life for life....it's life IN life or "soul In soul" (wow)

This is a reference to eyes being opened to the inner empowerment of the Lord.

 

[shepherdsword]

John 15:1-6 KJV
1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2) Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

You can read it for yourself.

Those who are "in Christ" are called branches, in relation to bearing or not bearing fruit. Those who are not in Christ are not called branches, but are compared to the branches people gather for their fires.

Much love!

yes...all of the branches are IN him but some shall be cut off

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit

How can you miss this?

 

[shepherdsword]

This is not "cast forth like a branch, to be gathered and burned". This one the Father carries away.

Much love!

You are discombobulating the context of the entire discourse just to maintain your view. We can never come into all truth like that.

 

[marks]

yes...all of the branches are IN him but some shall be cut off

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit

How can you miss this?

Um . . . do you know I've already posted on this a couple of times?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are discombobulating the context

No, I'm following the text for what it says, and not for what it does not say.

OK, so we've shared our views, and they are different.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are pointing out what you THINK it says. It is comparing the man to a branch that shall be cast forth and burned. Please show a single place where any of the branches were not IN him. I think the real question should be. "what fruit is he looking for?"

one verse here completely shows your error

concerning the branch that is lifted up or pruned. Jesus said this about them

John 15:3
You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

We are saved by our faith in the word. Not producing fruit. these were already saved.

 

[marks]

one verse here completely shows your error

concerning the branch that is lifted up or pruned. Jesus said this about them

John 15:3
You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

We are saved by our faith in the word. Not producing fruit. these were already saved.

This is a great example of Bible interpretation.

This passage is ambiguous in that it does not make a specific statement concerning those who are truly born again and whether or not they can become "unborn again".

There is the man who does not abide in Jesus, and we debate back and forth, so, did he at one time? Yes, say some, he is the branch who does not bear fruit. No, say others, he was never in Christ to begin with. So how do we determine which is correct?

We go to passages that make plain statements directly addressing this question. If there are statements which show us the born again can become unborn again, then perhaps - but only perhaps - this passage could say the same.

However, if there are passages which show the born again do not die again, then we can know this is not what this passage is saying.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are discombobulating the context of the entire discourse just to maintain your view. We can never come into all truth like that.

I'm taking this text exactly as I find it, and I see it says a certain thing. I'm also seeing how this certain thing is in full harmony with passages that speak directly on this topic of whether or not someone who is baptized into Christ, becoming alive in Him, should ever not be so.

That is proper interpretation.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

You make it sound like being born again is the end of the race

No @Episkopos i dont teach that being born again is the end of the ""Race.""
I teach that being born again is the ONLY ACTUIAL proof you are actually become a Christian.

Now, the Hebrews 12:1 "race" that is set before us"""......is not talking about God's "Gift of Salvation.".
See........Salvation is what Jesus accomplished on The Cross 2000 yrs ago.. that God gives to any and all who give God their Faith in Christ.
They are then eternally Justified by faith and this means they are kept eternally at peace with God.

So, when Heb 12 speaks about a "race".......then this is the same idea as Paul's teaching that talks about "finishing your course".

So, the "race".. or the "course' is the Chrisitian's DISCIPLESHIP.... Not their Salvation.... The RACE or the Course is the part that they pursue, AFTER they have reveived God's "Gift of Salvation"", and are born again.
So this is their DISCIPLESHIP..........not their Salvation.

Its like this........God gives the believer the New Birth = after He forgives ALL their sin through the BLOOD of Jesus, and now being BORN AGAIN.........having received God's "Gift of Salvation"......the CHRISTian is now to begin their "race" or their "Course", which is their Discipleship.

Heretics and unsaved religious pretenders, who dont understand Salvation, (and probably are not born again) teach that the race , that is discipleship, is Salvation.........which of course it isn't.

Heretics are never able to understand that Salvaiton is What God gives for FREE, and Discipleship is what the CHRISTIan pursues after they have received God's "Gift of Salvation".

Paul was afraid of being disqualified by not running lawfully...

Paul spoke about being disqualified, and He talked about becoming a "castaway'.
In both cases, this is not loss of Salvation, this is loss of Ministry on Earth, and loss of rewards at the "Bema" Seat.

 

[Episkopos]

Yikes Epi.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Rev 2:16 Therefore repent. If not, I will come to you soon and war against them with the sword of my mouth.

Rev 3:3 Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you.

Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent.

I guess these churches did not walk in Zion.

In the case of Laodicea...this was a church typical of the time we are living in...where people have NO fear of the Lord or humility. The hubris is so common that any actual sound doctrine and reality is laughed at.

What I'm relating here is not meant to insult people...it's the prideful ego that is getting ruffled. But to HEAR the truth you need honesty and the ability to weigh what is being said against the bible without love of person.

It's not only that the modern churches don't know the higher walk, that much is obvious; it's the arrogance and flippancy with which any correction is met.

 

[shepherdsword]

I'm taking this text exactly as I find it, and I see it says a certain thing. I'm also seeing how this certain thing is in full harmony with passages that speak directly on this topic of whether or not someone who is baptized into Christ, becoming alive in Him, should ever not be so.

That is proper interpretation.

Much love!

Let's get back to the point of this thread. Did you watch the video in the OP? What are your thoughts on it?

 

[Episkopos]

Let's get back to the point of this thread. Did you watch the video in the OP? What are your thoughts on it?

People have no idea what they are condemning. They don't watch the videos before commenting...and they don't read the bible when being corrected. They already know what they WANT to believe. What a waste.

 

[marks]

Let's get back to the point of this thread. Did you watch the video in the OP? What are your thoughts on it?

I was more interested in the point under discussion that I was addressing.

I don't watch these videos, I'm not here for that. When I see Scriptures being misrepresented I do sometimes chime in. If there were a transcript that would be useful.

I suppose then we are done with John 15?

Much love!

 

[marks]

People have no idea what they are condemning. They don't watch the videos before commenting...and they don't read the bible when being corrected. They already know what they WANT to believe. What a waste.

More of that mud slinging . . .

What a pity!

 

[Behold]

and they don't read the bible when being corrected.

Your posted theology regarding the Reason for The Cross, is extreme deception.....so, you are the last one who needs to be teaching Theology to anyone, anywhere.

You read Romans 9, that says that "the Gentiles who followed NOT after righteousness, but have attained (God's) righteousness, even the righteousness (that is imputed to them) through their Faith".

You read this.........how God's righteousness is gained, "as The Gift of Righteousness".... and all you can do is deny it... and continue to talk about how you are trying by self effort to achieve this for yourself., by your "doing".
And that is Total Legalism.........complete deception......and has nothing to do with How God saves a Sinner and keeps them saved. @Episkopos

 

[shepherdsword]

I was more interested in the point under discussion that I was addressing.

I don't watch these videos, I'm not here for that. When I see Scriptures being misrepresented I do sometimes chime in. If there were a transcript that would be useful.

I suppose then we are done with John 15?

Much love!

Yes, I am done with trying to enlighten you on what John 15 means since you see it through a Calvinistic lens of deception. You will maintain your OSAS view no matter what proof you are shown. The fact that you refuse to watch the video and perhaps learn something you didn't know is enough for me. I'll let you come back and have the last word.

 

[marks]

since you see it through a Calvinistic lens of deception.

This shows you don't know me, not at all.

No matter! There's my "last word" for the moment . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

the fact that you refuse to watch the video and perhaps learn something you didn't know is enough for me.

Well . . . one more word . . . ascribing motives to others, and especially people you don't actually know, is not a way to understand others, or what they are saying to you. You are only creating your own echo chamber, as you filter my words through your presuppositions of me.

Your claims about me (ignorant at best) only serve to insulate you from what I'm saying. What if in fact I'm NOT showing some predisposition to think a certain way? What if in fact what I'm saying is valid? But you've already dismissed me, and therefore my words.

Much love!

 

[ProDeo]

Let's get back to the point of this thread. Did you watch the video in the OP? What are your thoughts on it?

In general it is good, the letter of the Law versus the spirit of the Law, the circumcise of the heart.

 

[GracePeace]

People have no idea what they are condemning. They don't watch the videos before commenting

I have the same problem with these people