BIBLE VERSIONS CAN AFFECT SALVATION

[DNB]

The myth about "the earliest manuscripts" is just that. FAKE NEWS. The earliest manuscripts (meaning primarily Aleph and B) are the most corrupt.

There is more than enough documentary evidence to support the authenticity of 1 John 5:7. There is also plenty of internal and grammatical support.

You're quoting Donald Trump, ...need I say anymore?
...but, I will.
Enoch111, you sound silly and incompetent when you start to declare 'conspiracy theory', seriously.
You see, had their actually been a deliberate and unified attempt at corrupting any textual family, a thorough job would have been expected.
Meaning, to leave out one or two random verses, that are in support of various doctrines, respectively, and then to leave the rest that are equally considered to be in defense of a particular doctrine, DOES NOT SPELL CONSPIRACY!!!!
Do you get that part, it's called elementary reasoning, dialectics 101????

 

[Candidus]

The myth about "the earliest manuscripts" is just that. FAKE NEWS. The earliest manuscripts (meaning primarily Aleph and B) are the most corrupt.

There is more than enough documentary evidence to support the authenticity of 1 John 5:7. There is also plenty of internal and grammatical support.

To say that something that did not exist for the first 900 years of Church history qualifies as "enough documentary evidence" is a pathetic argument. If the earliest manuscripts match what the Early Church Fathers used as Scripture, and not the later Byzantine text, why would they all use corrupt manuscript? Why would the Byzantine text type not exist for the first 500 years of the Church? To say that they "wore out" the "good texts" has as much historical evidence as little green men coming from outer space and burning them all up with laser guns!

 

[XRose]

I never worried about anything except loosing the Spirit of Christ. The love of hearing a gifted teacher unveil the hidden truths in God's word was an extra blessing God put in my path.

Im experiencing my own epistle, but it gives such Joy to see a reflection of similarities in the surrendered life we are living with those who lived it in the past.

And " believing" Jesus is the Son of God is not Faith towards God, and will avail nothing.

Well. I'm sure your friend Satan is delighted you call Jesus and Paul liars as Paul was taught by Jesus and holy spirit and he wrote Romans: 10:9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

I'll bold, supersize, underline and repeat Paul's words in hopes it wil knock you off your self-important high horse: that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[XRose]

Just " believing" is not even a true act of Faith.

Faith is an act, based upon a Belief, sustained by confidence.

Defined by the Vines as " a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender."

The Strong's," pisteuo means NOT just to believe."

Not your fault that your being decieved, but will be if you don't look into it!

Now you set yourself up as judge and jury and condemn a Christian for failing to accept your pretentious lying twaddle!
Romans 10:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 

[XRose]

Bart Ehrman swallowed Satan's lies about faulty translation to the extent the fool now claims the Bible contains 450,000 errors!
It only has about 850,000 - 900,000 words depending on translation.
And every Bible starts with Creation and end with Revelation after meandering through The Fall, Flood, Tower of Babel, John the Baptist, Jesus and the acts of the apostels.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Bart Ehrman swallowed Satan's lies about faulty translation to the extent the fool now claims the Bible contains 450,000 errors!
It only has about 850,000 - 900,000 words depending on translation.
And every Bible starts with Creation and end with Revelation after meandering through The Fall, Flood, Tower of Babel, John the Baptist, Jesus and the acts of the apostels.

Most of the prominent translations of the Bible (KJV, NKJV, NAB, ESV, Jerusalem Bible, RSV, NEB, NIV) all can be viewed as the infallible Word of God, because any errors are typographical and therefore cosmetic and don't significant alter the main text.

The main problem is that people cannot accept the clear message about sin, righteousness, judgment to come, the need for repentance, faith in Christ, holiness of life.

The errors that I see in the Bible are: Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit, Cain killing Abel, Pharoah not letting the children of Israel leave, King Saul disobeying the instructions of the prophet that caused him to lose his kingdom, David committing adultery with Bathsheba, Ananias and Sapphira lying to the Holy Spirit, the Laodecian church losing its first love, and Pontius Pilate not acquitting Jesus.

 

[XRose]

Most of the prominent translations of the Bible (KJV, NKJV, NAB, ESV, Jerusalem Bible, RSV, NEB, NIV) all can be viewed as the infallible Word of God, because any errors are typographical and therefore cosmetic and don't significant alter the main text.

The main problem is that people cannot accept the clear message about sin, righteousness, judgment to come, the need for repentance, faith in Christ, holiness of life.

The errors that I see in the Bible are: Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit, Cain killing Abel, Pharoah not letting the children of Israel leave, King Saul disobeying the instructions of the prophet that caused him to lose his kingdom, David committing adultery with Bathsheba, Ananias and Sapphira lying to the Holy Spirit, the Laodecian church losing its first love, and Pontius Pilate not acquitting Jesus.

So why do you deny Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit, Cain killing Abel, Pharoah not letting the children of Israel leave, King Saul disobeying the instructions of the prophet that caused him to lose his kingdom, David committing adultery with Bathsheba, Ananias and Sapphira lying to the Holy Spirit, the Laodecian church losing its first love, and Pontius Pilate not acquitting Jesus.

 

[XRose]

You continue to want to split hairs.

Faither must be one of those Jews who do nothing all day but debate Torah into ever finer theories and definitions - and consider Christians are Satan's spawn.

 

[XRose]

Take a minute to go into my posting history. 95% of my posts are about my understanding of Faith correctly understood.

95% of your post are claiming only you are saved by your own definition - certainly not any of us and not even Paul who spoke directly with Jesus and was genuinely filled with holy spirit.

 

[Paul Christensen]

So why do you deny Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit, Cain killing Abel, Pharoah not letting the children of Israel leave, King Saul disobeying the instructions of the prophet that caused him to lose his kingdom, David committing adultery with Bathsheba, Ananias and Sapphira lying to the Holy Spirit, the Laodecian church losing its first love, and Pontius Pilate not acquitting Jesus.

Were you behind the door when your elementary school teacher taught the class comprehension, or are you having trouble with my New Zealand wit?

I meant about the errors those people did as recorded in the Bible. Those were the real errors in the Bible.

 

[XRose]

New King James 1 Corinthians 1:18. 'For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.'

This is the correct translation. sozomenois, 'are being saved,' is in the Present tense, which in Greek denotes continuous action.
The KJV regularly gets its tenses wrong.

The KJV Big Picture is not altered by a few mistranslations. KJV tells us Jesus came to be a sacrificial lamb to erase the sins of all who believe he is the son of GOD.
Quibbling over words is akin to causing any dissenters to stumble and that is Satan's trick.

 

[Paul Christensen]

Sneer like your friend Satan if it suits your low New Zealand chip on the shoulder but you did post: 'The errors that I see in the Bible are: Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit, Cain killing Abel, etc,' and as I'm curious about how the lower minds like yours think I'm interested in your motives.

Just as a matter of interest have you any idea how kiwi birds got to New Zealand?

You must be one of contentious ones that I was warned about. Resorting to acidic abuse weakens your credibility. I was just very surprised that you didn't get what I was actually saying.

The kiwi came to NZ over the landbridge when the level of the oceans went down during the ice age after the flood. They died out everywhere else because they could not survive anywhere else other than the pre-European environment of NZ.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Why is this in error?

Enoch, you now have this habit of consistently asking me questions that I just answered in my previous posts, LoL. I'm getting used to it. It's like having conversations in reverse : )

But you know what is going on here: At issue is the desire to maintain pet doctrines at the expense of precise and accurate exegesis.

What is this?

While the literal translation of σῳζομένοις (sōzomenois) is "who are being saved", the spiritual truth is "who are saved".

The "spiritual truth"? Look at the lengths you are going to to preserve a doctrinal falsehood. This is double talk and you know it. The two translations support two entirely different doctrinal positions; positions that have bearing on the critical issue of salvation. One favors salvation as a perfected state that cannot be altered; the other suggests it is in flux until death, and that only "he who endures until the end shall be saved."

By this argument you are side-stepping accurate exegesis to prop up your pet doctrine. And don't think translators can't do the exact same thing.

They do.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

The present participle expresses continuous or repeated action. "the form of a verb, ending in -ing in English, which is used in forming continuous tenses, e.g. in "I'm thinking," alone in nonfinite clauses, e.g. "in sitting here, I haven't a care in the world," as a noun, e.g. in "good thinking," and as an adjective, e.g. in "running water."

It is present participle in every single known MSS, without exception.

No offense to anyone posting on this thread, but the KJV translation is in error, thus to make a doctrine out of this verse from the KJV translation would be to teach error.

Take it slowly, I can't stay apace. But are you not doing grammatical cherry-picking? And over-simplify? You are doing both!

Telling us <<σῳζομένοις (sōzomenois) "who are being saved" is .. present participle .. expresses continuous or repeated action .. is nonfinite>>, we only hear what you, want us to hear, correct or not. What you tell us by far is not all that the <passage> or the Participle tells us -- us, the poor panting after righteousness sheep.

Because what you tell us, <<e.g. in "I'm thinking," alone in nonfinite clauses, e.g. "in sitting here, I haven't a care in the world," as a noun, e.g. in "good thinking," and as an adjective, e.g. in "running water">> simply <<is, continuous tense..>> is not true of <<σῳζομένοις (sōzomenois) "who are being saved">>.

Where is the fact that σῳζομένοις is Passive Voice?
The Passive is most important a most prominent aspect of σῳζομένοις which tells us we are not saving ourselves - we "are being saved" THE ONLY WAY, BY THE POWER which "is the Power of God" whereby ALL saved of ALL ages "are being saved" - NOT ONLY NOW, not only "you", not only "we", BUT THE WAY AND THE POWER whereby all, from Adam until those who will see Him coming on the clouds in the Last Day "are being saved" - σῳζομένοις.

You simply thus also, disregard the fact σῳζομένοις is not a Finite Verb or an Infinitive, but a PARTICIPLE - an Adjectival as well as Adverbial PART-Noun-PART-Verb DESCRIBING ('descriptive') linguistic phenomenon of language but of the Greek language especially.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Why is this in error? Only those who are saved see and have experienced that the preaching of the cross is the power of God. While the literal translation of σῳζομένοις (sōzomenois) is "who are being saved", the spiritual truth is "who are saved".

I second!

Another 'aspect' of this word is its Case, Dative, so, <<Only those who are saved see and have experienced that the preaching of the cross is "TO THEM (sohdzomen-OIS) THE POWER of God" = <<the literal translation of σῳζομένοις>> = <<the spiritual truth "who are saved">>. AMEN!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Not hate - truth.
You are the one hating the truth.
Presumably you are ecumenist and join the Muslims in worshipping the black stone they call allah, and join the Catholics worshipping idols or Ishtar, join the Mormons in worshipping Satan-Moroni, the JWs in their worship of their graven image filled Watchtower magazine idolisings, Buddhists worshipping idols of the fat man, Hindus adoring idols of Vishnu...

Do you remotely care how glaringly inaccurate and inappropriate you are being right now?
Such isn't remotely "defending truth". We can be disciples of Christ without flaming others and instead taking the time to understand & love them. Remember how Christ treated even tax collectors?

 

[Candidus]

New King James 1 Corinthians 1:18. 'For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.'

This is the correct translation. sozomenois, 'are being saved,' is in the Present tense, which in Greek denotes continuous action.
The KJV regularly gets its tenses wrong.

Steve, the reason why the translators of the 1611 King James translated they way they did was... they didn't know Greek well enough to make the distinction! But before any KJO Bible-Worshiper has an aneurism, allow me to say that no one understood the Greek verb tenses until the 1890's. In most cases the King James uses the context to guess correctly what is said, and other times it uses a neutral understanding that could be read as one wished. Unfortunately, that has led to much doctrinal error.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Take it slowly, I can't stay apace. But are you not doing grammatical cherry-picking? And over-simplify? You are doing both!

Telling us <<σῳζομένοις (sōzomenois) "who are being saved" is .. present participle .. expresses continuous or repeated action .. is nonfinite>>, we only hear what you, want us to hear, correct or not. What you tell us by far is not all that the <passage> or the Participle tells us -- us, the poor panting after righteousness sheep.

Because what you tell us, <<e.g. in "I'm thinking," alone in nonfinite clauses, e.g. "in sitting here, I haven't a care in the world," as a noun, e.g. in "good thinking," and as an adjective, e.g. in "running water">> simply <<is, continuous tense..>> is not true of <<σῳζομένοις (sōzomenois) "who are being saved">>.

Where is the fact that σῳζομένοις is Passive Voice?
The Passive is most important a most prominent aspect of σῳζομένοις which tells us we are not saving ourselves - we "are being saved" THE ONLY WAY, BY THE POWER which "is the Power of God" whereby ALL saved of ALL ages "are being saved" - NOT ONLY NOW, not only "you", not only "we", BUT THE WAY AND THE POWER whereby all, from Adam until those who will see Him coming on the clouds in the Last Day "are being saved" - σῳζομένοις.

You simply thus also, disregard the fact σῳζομένοις is not a Finite Verb or an Infinitive, but a PARTICIPLE - an Adjectival as well as Adverbial PART-Noun-PART-Verb DESCRIBING ('descriptive') linguistic phenomenon of language but of the Greek language especially.

Focusing, not cherry-picking.
Passive/middle was not in dispute.

 

[Steve Owen]

Steve, the reason why the translators of the 1611 King James translated they way they did was... they didn't know Greek well enough to make the distinction! But before any KJO Bible-Worshiper has an aneurism, allow me to say that no one understood the Greek verb tenses until the 1890's. In most cases the King James uses the context to guess correctly what is said, and other times it uses a neutral understanding that could be read as one wished. Unfortunately, that has led to much doctrinal error.

I am not one of those who wishes to slag off the KJV unnecessarily; in many ways it is an excellent translation and those who worked on it were the finest scholars of their day. As an itinerant preacher I'm always happy to preach from it when asked. Also, the Byzantine Text, which I believe to be the most accurate, is closer to the Received Text than to the Critical Text. I would sooner use the KJV than many of the 'dynamic equivalence,' 'gender neutral' versions we have today.

But you are right that scholarship has moved on from the 17th Century, and the KJV repeatedly gets the tenses wrong. Romans 6:2 is another example. The NKJV is not perfect, but it is an improvement on the KJV.

 

[Steve Owen]

The KJV Big Picture is not altered by a few mistranslations. KJV tells us Jesus came to be a sacrificial lamb to erase the sins of all who believe he is the son of GOD.
Quibbling over words is akin to causing any dissenters to stumble and that is Satan's trick.

I agree with you. I would not have brought the matter up if the O.P had not claimed that the NKJV translation affected doctrine.